Rourke released, Signed by Atlanta...and released again AND SIGNS WITH BC

[TecnoGenius]

If teams want to go down the prior mega failure situation with Mike Reily that BC had many years ago, be prepared to shortchange the rest of your squad and ESPECIALLY Offensive line. That QB getting mega donnaros better be the second coming of Doug Flutie or Warren Moon to gamble so much cap salary on one player!

No one said pull a Herve/Claybrooks and overpay the QB.  We're saying increase the whole SMS by enough that our best QBs can be paid a salary competitive with PR NFL QBs.

To do what you propose and to consider the exchange rate on the American Greenback, you'd easily need at least another $500,000 to $1,000,000. A $6.1 to 6.5M cap might get you close.

Bingo!  Thanks for running the numbers.  It's roughly what I was guessing.  The CFL SMS should be another 0.5 to 1.0 mill.

This is precisely the same suggestion I made when Goosen just up and retired for no reason.  We aren't paying enough overall.  When very good and viable NAT talent retires because it's not worth it, you know you have a problem.

Adding another mill to SMS would solve both the OL and QB retention problems.

[TecnoGenius]

Why? It's pretty obvious that most starting QBs cannot get on an NFL PR roster so who cares if they're paid the same. No CFL positional group can come close to NFL PR money. That's not going to change.

It's not just the rare CFL QB that gets NFL looks... it's also the marginal/bubble PR guys in the NFL that we could attract up here: the type of guy that has almost no chance of ever NFL-starting (like Rourke).

If a QB looks good enough to NFL-PR or CFL-start, then we should make coming up here a viable alternative to wasting away on PR.  Some guys will jump at the chance to actually play and get film in the CFL if the pay was the same.  A lot of guys don't want to waste away on the bench but they do it anyway because the pay is higher and they dream of their starter shot.  When the starter-shot dream is clearly gone, we should welcome them up here and make it worth their while.

Sure, we'll never get the high-DP guys and the clear #2's and obvious future stars: but that's not who we're aiming for.

[ichabod_crane]

Except of course that they ALREADY RAISED THE CAP THIS YEAR.

You don't read for comprehension, do you?

You don't read my prior posts fully bud. I ALREADY stated the cap went up this season in an earlier post from SPORTS ILLUSTRATED no less! 🙄

Whatever, this is a nonsensical conversation. The cap is not going up no matter how much you wish it beyond what is already agreed to by all the parties involved. ALL total speculation and daydreams until more revenues come  into the league.

[ichabod_crane]

I get it now! I feel much smarter having had this conversation with you.

Not sure if I should take that as  a compliment or an insult!

Whatever man, I don't know you and have NOTHING Against you. I just have a different perspective.

SURE IF the money was available, THEN raise the cap. But saying you want it (theoretical) vs making it actually happen (reality) are two different things.

[J5V]

Not sure if I should take that as  a compliment or an insult!

I meant it as an insult, for which I apologise.

Whatever man, I don't know you and have NOTHING Against you. I just have a different perspective.

I feel the same way.

SURE IF the money was available, THEN raise the cap. But saying you want it (theoretical) vs making it actually happen (reality) are two different things.

Agreed.

[TecnoGenius]

SURE IF the money was available, THEN raise the cap. But saying you want it (theoretical) vs making it actually happen (reality) are two different things.

That's all anyone is saying.  Yes, it's never going to happen, yes the SMS is up this year but/and written in stone, yes the discussion would be about future years, yes it would require a mythical magical fountain of CFL money to materialize.

However, I think we'd all love to see the SMS up by 1M a year and guys like Rourke coming back to the CFL and Goosen not retiring.

I think it's ok to dream & discuss and hope/plan for a better CFL future.  I personally think it would be great if we could be competitive with NFL waterboy pay for our star QBs.

[Jesse]

Because it's pathetic.  Our top-3 superstar starting CFL QBs can't earn more than a NFL PR spot?  What's next, the NFL waterboy makes more too?  Would we make excuses for that too?  It's sad and pathetic.

My whole point is it's sad that Rourke, who clearly will never be an NFL starter, is rotting down south barely on a PR and still earn more than Zach.  On the PR!!  I could fathom people laughing if I wanted CFL starting QBs to earn as much as, say, NFL #2 QBs.  I understand the economics of the 2 leagues.  But surely we can muster enough to lure guys in Rourke's situation back to Canada?

And the point still remains, because we can't find a tad more money in the CFL, CFL-superstars like Rourke waste 2-5 years on the bench in the NFL and everyone loses out, all for the want of another $100k or so.

Go watch the NFL, then. lol.

More than a few NFL players make more than our entire league combined. It's just the reality of it.

[Pete]

That's all anyone is saying.  Yes, it's never going to happen, yes the SMS is up this year but/and written in stone, yes the discussion would be about future years, yes it would require a mythical magical fountain of CFL money to materialize.

However, I think we'd all love to see the SMS up by 1M a year and guys like Rourke coming back to the CFL and Goosen not retiring.

I think it's ok to dream & discuss and hope/plan for a better CFL future.  I personally think it would be great if we could be competitive with NFL waterboy pay for our star QBs.

Unless the cfl gets a lot more television money, the cap ain:t going up. Were still a gate revenue driven league and even football hotbeds like sask are struggling.

[theaardvark]

Because it's pathetic.  Our top-3 superstar starting CFL QBs can't earn more than a NFL PR spot?  What's next, the NFL waterboy makes more too?  Would we make excuses for that too?  It's sad and pathetic.

My whole point is it's sad that Rourke, who clearly will never be an NFL starter, is rotting down south barely on a PR and still earn more than Zach.  On the PR!!  I could fathom people laughing if I wanted CFL starting QBs to earn as much as, say, NFL #2 QBs.  I understand the economics of the 2 leagues.  But surely we can muster enough to lure guys in Rourke's situation back to Canada?

And the point still remains, because we can't find a tad more money in the CFL, CFL-superstars like Rourke waste 2-5 years on the bench in the NFL and everyone loses out, all for the want of another $100k or so.

So, we should pay the Seabears top player $1million, right?  And how about the Goldeyes, their top pitcher should be getting $1million too.

Our top 3 superstar QB's can't win a spot on an NFL PR.  So, like a Seabears player, or a Goldeye, they choose to play the game they love for a very good salary.  Even an ELC / min salary guy gets $70k for 8 months work.  That's like a $35/hr job broken down over the full year.  $600k is like $300/hr.  You are crying because our top QB's are making way more than doctors, lawyers and even plumbers?

Yikes. 

They aren't having a tag day for even the lowest paid CFL starting QB's.  Dru Brown is getting $290k in hard money, up to $350k with incentives.  That's like getting paid $150/hr, 40 hrs a week, 52 weeks a year.  Plus up to a $50k bonus just for actually doing his job, playing games.

Pardon me if I don't feel sorry for how hard done by our league's players are.  And you'd never see me calling the league, its teams, or its players "pathetic".

As to Rourke rotting away... you realize that's a great self own right there.  He's in the NFL, working with the best coaches and trainers in the world, in the best equipped facilities in the world, earning more than he ever could in Canada not even being on the roster.  He's getting the the very best chance to work his way into a starting role, which would mean life changing money and experience.  He deserves everything he is getting right now because of his talent.  And, if he doesn't get the opportunity to play, and decides that he'd rather play for less than not play for more, he has the option to come back to Canada and rule the CFL, the world's second highest paid football league. 

There's your demarcation line.  The differentiation between NFL, CFL, UFL, ALF and just for reference, the ELF, where MONTHLY salaries max at $3,500, and local players can be paid €100 a MONTH. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_League_of_Football

"The league has a salary cap for all franchises which is divided into three salary groups for its players. Up to eight players—including the four A-import spots—are paid a full-time salary. For American import players, a franchise can pay a salary that can range from €600 (around $700) to €3,000 ($3,500) per month. The second tier consists of additional four transitional players (international or homegrown) with a part-time salary. Every other member of the roster is in the homegrown salary group with marginal employment and a monthly income ranging from €100 to €450. All players under contract receive health insurance and participate in state pension insurance. Further benefits such as housing and meals during the season have to be negotiated individually"   

[theaardvark]

No one said pull a Herve/Claybrooks and overpay the QB.  We're saying increase the whole SMS by enough that our best QBs can be paid a salary competitive with PR NFL QBs.

Bingo!  Thanks for running the numbers.  It's roughly what I was guessing.  The CFL SMS should be another 0.5 to 1.0 mill.

This is precisely the same suggestion I made when Goosen just up and retired for no reason.  We aren't paying enough overall.  When very good and viable NAT talent retires because it's not worth it, you know you have a problem.

Adding another mill to SMS would solve both the OL and QB retention problems.

Adding a $Mil to teh $SMS might push some clubs to bankruptcy.  Many are already in the red.  You can't count on angel investors to continually prop up the league.

The league has no issue finding players to fill rosters, and with a level playing field, with an SMS cap that ALL teams have to abide by means all teams have the equal ability to attract players and keep them.  Will we miss out on a few top players?  Maybe.  But if those players can't make it it in the NFL, regardless whether we pay $400k or $800k, they'll be here.  Pretty sure if we had a capped max salary at $600k, Rourke's decision making factors to come north would be exactly the same.  What it would do is stop teams from deciding how badly they want to kneecap the rest of their roster to land him.  He would go where his heart wants (BC), and Pinball wouldn't be able to buy him for $150k more...

[DM83]

Rourke has to come back to the CFL and post big numbers.  His situation could be compared to Doug Fluties.  played OK as a curiosity piece. Then wouldn't be signed by any team in the NFL.  Came to Canada, proved he was sensational. Went back down and had a couple good years.  Warren Moon played in Canada for five or so years, earned. A chance to start and went to four
 grey cups. Parlayed that into a long NFL. Career.

So Rourke has to come back North, win four Grey cups and then go back south.

Ford can't read a defense , so he runs around until things break down, and then finds guys open. He won't play in a structured offence.

I read one of the CFL clubs told their starter, to check out the first read. If it wasn't there leave the pocket and scramble.  Maybe it is the Dirks guy in Toronto?  No one knows what is going on either when Ford does that, He does that almost immediately upon catching the snap.  Tough to be motivated when as a player, all your effort is marginalized by a hot dog running around chaotically?  Entertaining, but eleven other guys don't know what to do.  Their coaches need to at least give him that one read directive before bailing.  Not sure they know it based on their illustrious playing and coaching career.....they must, though.

[theaardvark]

Rourke has to come back to the CFL and post big numbers.  His situation could be compared to Doug Fluties.  played OK as a curiosity piece. Then wouldn't be signed by any team in the NFL.  Came to Canada, proved he was sensational. Went back down and had a couple good years.  Warren Moon played in Canada for five or so years, earned. A chance to start and went to four
 grey cups. Parlayed that into a long NFL. Career.

So Rourke has to come back North, win four Grey cups and then go back south.

Ford can't read a defense , so he runs around until things break down, and then finds guys open. He won't play in a structured offence.

I read one of the CFL clubs told their starter, to check out the first read. If it wasn't there leave the pocket and scramble.  Maybe it is the Dirks guy in Toronto?  No one knows what is going on either when Ford does that, He does that almost immediately upon catching the snap.  Tough to be motivated when as a player, all your effort is marginalized by a hot dog running around chaotically?  Entertaining, but eleven other guys don't know what to do.  Their coaches need to at least give him that one read directive before bailing.  Not sure they know it based on their illustrious playing and coaching career.....they must, though.

Flutie never got a chance in the NFL due to size, and had to prove himself in the CFL.

Moon didn't get a chance as a QB in the NFL for other reasons he wouldn't have faced today.  Again, proving himself in the CFL, and the passing of a few year, made the difference.

Rourke has neither of those difficulties to overcome.  Is he looked down at for being Canadian?  He went to US College.  DIV 1 Ohio Bobcats.  So he's got no impediments other than skill.  If he can do the job, he will get his shot.

The reason he has garnered some attention from the NFL was his stellar play in the CFL already.  More season of that won't make much of a difference.  CFL play gets eyes on you, then your play has to win you a spot.

[TecnoGenius]

Unless the cfl gets a lot more television money, the cap ain:t going up. Were still a gate revenue driven league and even football hotbeds like sask are struggling.

Well, that's one of the positive aspects, I think.  Just look at PAS gate the last few games.  And we're a "losing" team this season!  That last game had a great crowd.  Pretty much as close to a sellout as you can get without a sellout.

I think people will start realizing how great a time you can have at a CFL game, for reasonable money.  I know everyone else is down on it all, and I know you can't always extrapolate PAS crowds to other stadiums... but I think more people want to go out more often in the summer.

I'm optimistic for the future, and maybe we can eventually up the SMS by larger amounts.

[TecnoGenius]

You are crying because our top QB's are making way more than doctors, lawyers and even plumbers?

I'm not crying, and I don't care what QBs make compared to doctors.  All that matters is what QBs make in the CFL compared to the NFL.  And not #1 to #1, but #1 to #4 or #5.  I want us to give rot-on-PR guys the option of staying here.

They aren't having a tag day for even the lowest paid CFL starting QB's.  Dru Brown is getting $290k in hard money, up to $350k with incentives.  That's like getting paid $150/hr, 40 hrs a week, 52 weeks a year.  Plus up to a $50k bonus just for actually doing his job, playing games.

I don't want to get into the weeds, because it's irrelevant, but the counterargument to "they're paid so much, more than doctors!" is "ya, but they only get paid that for maybe 5 years then they are back to flipping burgers or selling cars".  A doctor or lawyer will leverage their education and training for 30-50 years of high income.  A football player will be lucky to get 5 years of peak pay (ELC years don't count).

Pardon me if I don't feel sorry for how hard done by our league's players are.  And you'd never see me calling the league, its teams, or its players "pathetic".

Don't put words in my mouth.  I didn't call any team or player pathetic.  What is pathetic is the CFL can't pay Rourke as much to be our league-best superstar #1 QB as the NFL can to hold a clipboard as #4 or #5 QB.

And others have shown that we're not off by too much.  It's not outlandish or impossible.

As to Rourke rotting away... you realize that's a great self own right there.  He's in the NFL, working with the best coaches and trainers in the world, in the best equipped facilities in the world, earning more than he ever could in Canada not even being on the roster.

I'll let you reflect on the bolded words above.  Thanks for proving my point!  QED

[TecnoGenius]

Pretty sure if we had a capped max salary at $600k, Rourke's decision making factors to come north would be exactly the same.

If we had that extra $1M cap then 100% for sure Rourke still goes to the NFL for 1 year, maybe 2.  But as soon as it's clear to the whole world that it'll take 3 to 4 freak injuries to the QBs ahead of him to ever see a start, then maybe, just maybe, parity in pay between CFL-starter and NFL-PR would have him choosing to come back north pronto.

Once the dream of $100M payday is lost forever, the non-monetary aspects of the CFL should be the deciding factors.  Those would be: being a superstar league-leading #1 adored and cheered by fans and building a CFL legacy and being allowed to play the game they love every week.  And in Rourke's case: becoming a CFL legend as the only league-top and potential GC-winning Canadian QB in modern times.

Ya, he's rotting in the NFL, and it's a huge waste.  And I'm a guy who would rather NOT see him come back because there will be many future WSF and WDF where he beats the Bombers.  But I do realize that it's better for the league and fans if he does come back.  And a healthy CFL is more important than just the Bombers winning.