Official Game Day Thread - Sask. at Winnipeg, (Banjo Bowl) September 7, 2024

[GOLDMEMBER]

Those sad sack of poor sports  are getting what they deserve.

[TecnoGenius]

Calling Techno... Calling Techno.

Please post the hit on Strevy's knees.

You rang?

Funny how the SSK fans are only posting the very start of the hit to claim it's "clean".  The hit does initiate above the knees.  But if you watch the full progression below you can see that the malicious/injurious act was Brown's right arm fully wrapping around Strev's leg way below the knee, whilst applying his full body weight and momentum against the knee.

It's like a jiu-jitsu move, applying force in a direction that should never be applied unless you want to blow knees and ankles out.

And he's not wrapping up around both legs with his arms: just each one separately, which also contributes to the injury.

Notice how Brown holds Strev's left calf/shin through the whole progression.  Only in the very last frame does he start to let go.

You can also see what Strev's injury will be: look at the 3rd frame... your leg can't make that shape without things going awry.

Intent or no intent, "dirty" or not dirty, I bet Brown gets a fine for this.  I hope he likes working for half pay, because this will be 3 of 18 games he's lost half a game cheque.

The only way he gets a suspension is if the league wants to send a message that you can't be the one player maiming 3 QBs.  You have to try to do whatever you can to mitigate it.  It would kind of be like how Simoni and Marino's punishments kept amping up after repeat offenses.

P.S. If Strev hadn't been hit I bet he gets the air on that ball he intended and Kenny gets a big TD.

[TecnoGenius]

Those sad sack of poor sports  are getting what they deserve.

It's funny, some on their forum posted in the LDC classic and pre-BB threads that they wanted Brown et al to put Strev and Zach out of commission...

After the Strev hit, some were saying they might as well take Zach out too.

They think the Strev hit cost them the game.  They are forgetting that it occurred on 2nd & 2, meaning if the hit on Strev never occurred, and we miss the pass, we likely convert on 3rd & 2 at C.  MOS had every intention of going for it, otherwise he wouldn't have taken the "free play".

The only thing that would have been different would be maybe we don't get as fired up after.  But I like to think our guys would have found a way to get morale up to pull out the same win.

[TBURGESS]

The hit initiated in the QB hit zone so by rule it's not a penalty. Same as if the hit was right in the stomach, then the player slid down the body.

I'm not surprised it was called though, because it injured a QB.

Thx for finding it for me.

[bunker]

Thanks for the pictures techno. Pretty clear on those pictures that Brown's got his right arm wrapped around Streveler's left leg below the knee.

Although the Banjo Bowl was officially sold out, there were lots of tickets available on the secondary market at sites other than ticketmaster. They are marked up quite a bit, but prices tend to fall closer to game day. I was at the game and noticed far fewer rider fans than in previous years. I think it probably reflects that their fan base is disenchanted with the team, and the way it has folded in the second half of the season the past 3 years.

[TecnoGenius]

The hit initiated in the QB hit zone so by rule it's not a penalty. Same as if the hit was right in the stomach, then the player slid down the body.

Well, RTP has a lot of rule elements... we can't just focus on the "above the knee" part.  Refs/command/CFL may very well rule he didn't commit "RTP above the knee".  Doesn't mean he didn't commit other RTP infractions.  So let's look:

Rule 7 - Section 1 - Article 5
(b) Contacting the passer in an unnecessary manner including stuffing them to the ground, [...]  and landing on them with most of the defender's weight.

I would say what happened would qualify for stuffing and applying most of the weight.  So there's one aspect the ref could have applied.

(d) Delivering a blow at or below the knees of the passer, regardless if the defender's path to the passer was unrestricted or if they are coming off a blocker.

Interesting, the rule isn't just "below" the knees, it includes the knees themselves.  The initial contact wasn't the blow that crippled Strev, it was the squeeze and follow through and weight application and if you look at my pictures you'll see this actually does occur mostly right on Strev's left knee!  So is it just the initial hit that counts, or the entire process of the injury?  I guess: define "blow".

The "regardless" part means SSK fans need to stop blabbing about "but he was pushed!", because that hasn't been relevant for years.  Guys rolling around coming off blocks into QB shins has been called for many seasons now, on far less forceful and injurious hits.  Being pushed can matter for us judging if he's "dirty", but not whether it's a penalty or not.

One could also argue that you could use general UR rules to call this RTP.  In general any in-whistle UR on the passer gets called as RTP.  In fact the prologue to the article says: "A player shall be penalized for any act of UR to the passer, including but not limited to"... you could easily argue the roughness was unnecessary in many ways.  Did he really need to jui-jitsu his knee like that?  Did he have to hold on so long?  Did he have to apply his full weight?

And I just noticed something else against Brown: look at the 2nd last and last pics.  Brown straightens his whole body up to put even more force into Strev!  Why is he doing that?  He should be curling up more, not trying to kick off to get more weight on Strev!!  Holy smokes, this guy is 100% fined, and now I think 75% he gets a suspension.  He needs to be reined in.

Keep in mind on RTP command can auto-intervene if they think the refs got it wrong.  The on-field refs can also ask for assistance if they aren't sure.  The fact that neither happened means that command thinks this is a legit RTP.

[bunker]

Well, RTP has a lot of rule elements... we can't just focus on the "above the knee" part.  Refs/command/CFL may very well rule he didn't commit "RTP above the knee".  Doesn't mean he didn't commit other RTP infractions.  So let's look:

Rule 7 - Section 1 - Article 5
(b) Contacting the passer in an unnecessary manner including stuffing them to the ground, [...]  and landing on them with most of the defender's weight.

I would say what happened would qualify for stuffing and applying most of the weight.  So there's one aspect the ref could have applied.

(d) Delivering a blow at or below the knees of the passer, regardless if the defender's path to the passer was unrestricted or if they are coming off a blocker.

Interesting, the rule isn't just "below" the knees, it includes the knees themselves.  The initial contact wasn't the blow that crippled Strev, it was the squeeze and follow through and weight application and if you look at my pictures you'll see this actually does occur mostly right on Strev's left knee!  So is it just the initial hit that counts, or the entire process of the injury?  I guess: define "blow".

The "regardless" part means SSK fans need to stop blabbing about "but he was pushed!", because that hasn't been relevant for years.  Guys rolling around coming off blocks into QB shins has been called for many seasons now, on far less forceful and injurious hits.  Being pushed can matter for us judging if he's "dirty", but not whether it's a penalty or not.

One could also argue that you could use general UR rules to call this RTP.  In general any in-whistle UR on the passer gets called as RTP.  In fact the prologue to the article says: "A player shall be penalized for any act of UR to the passer, including but not limited to"... you could easily argue the roughness was unnecessary in many ways.  Did he really need to jui-jitsu his knee like that?  Did he have to hold on so long?  Did he have to apply his full weight?

And I just noticed something else against Brown: look at the 2nd last and last pics.  Brown straightens his whole body up to put even more force into Strev!  Why is he doing that?  He should be curling up more, not trying to kick off to get more weight on Strev!!  Holy smokes, this guy is 100% fined, and now I think 75% he gets a suspension.  He needs to be reined in.

Keep in mind on RTP command can auto-intervene if they think the refs got it wrong.  The on-field refs can also ask for assistance if they aren't sure.  The fact that neither happened means that command thinks this is a legit RTP.

I agree. It's pretty clear the hit is below the left knee, which is the injured knee.And it's not just the wrap with the arm, but the follow through of the whole weight of his torso against the left leg below the knee. And if you watch in real time, he's not just helplessly falling forward, he's reaching with his arms and arching his body to maximize the force. It's a dirty play.

[bunker]

And rewatching the game, both Suitor and Nielson had the exact same interpretation of what happened. 

[Bluehawk]

You rang?

Funny how the SSK fans are only posting the very start of the hit to claim it's "clean".  The hit does initiate above the knees.  But if you watch the full progression below you can see that the malicious/injurious act was Brown's right arm fully wrapping around Strev's leg way below the knee, whilst applying his full body weight and momentum against the knee.

It's like a jiu-jitsu move, applying force in a direction that should never be applied unless you want to blow knees and ankles out.

And he's not wrapping up around both legs with his arms: just each one separately, which also contributes to the injury.

Notice how Brown holds Strev's left calf/shin through the whole progression.  Only in the very last frame does he start to let go.

You can also see what Strev's injury will be: look at the 3rd frame... your leg can't make that shape without things going awry.

Intent or no intent, "dirty" or not dirty, I bet Brown gets a fine for this.  I hope he likes working for half pay, because this will be 3 of 18 games he's lost half a game cheque.

The only way he gets a suspension is if the league wants to send a message that you can't be the one player maiming 3 QBs.  You have to try to do whatever you can to mitigate it.  It would kind of be like how Simoni and Marino's punishments kept amping up after repeat offenses.

P.S. If Strev hadn't been hit I bet he gets the air on that ball he intended and Kenny gets a big TD.

Great post Tech...the series of pictures you have highlighted shows a very clear hit to the left knee and lower leg.
If Brown had not wrapped the leg with his right arm with continued forward momentum, I doubt the injury occurs.  This hit is absolutely worthy of a suspension.  All quarterbacks in the league are too valuable for this to continue period.  I would also say this if a Bomber lineman did the same to an opposing quarterback.  CFL brass, its time to step up, show leadership and send a very clear message to the players.  Will be an interesting week to see the response from the league.  I hope they actually see the series of pictures posted here. 

[TBURGESS]

The hit clearly initiates above the knee. That's the blow in the rules.

A blow is the initial hit or a punch or a flipper. It's not wrapping up.

An arm wrap isn't a penalty. It's good tackling form.

Being pushed isn't a factor.

Applying your full weight isn't a penalty, it's how you tackle well. 

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

The hit clearly initiates above the knee. That's the blow in the rules.

A blow is the initial hit or a punch or a flipper. It's not wrapping up.

An arm wrap isn't a penalty. It's good tackling form.

Being pushed isn't a factor.

Applying your full weight isn't a penalty, it's how you tackle well.

It's true Brown's helmet impacts Strevs. thigh but the vector of the energy transfer can be reduced to an "average" location or the max. stress point. In this instance with most of his momentum moving horizontally it's easy to see that location would be directly on Strevs's left knee.

The officials can't see vectors in real time, but the rules they are applying are designed to protect QB's and eliminate dangerous tackles such as this. In the least a UR penalty was warranted because it follows the spirit of that rule.

[J5V]

Great pics, Techno. Thanks very much. I agree with all that state it is suspension-worthy.

[Bluehawk]

The hit clearly initiates above the knee. That's the blow in the rules.

A blow is the initial hit or a punch or a flipper. It's not wrapping up.

An arm wrap isn't a penalty. It's good tackling form.

Being pushed isn't a factor.

Applying your full weight isn't a penalty, it's how you tackle well.

So you are saying an arm wrap below the knee is okay???
Is an arm wrap not considered a tackle or a hit?

[theaardvark]

The arm wrap is completely uneccesary, and not part of a player falling down on top of a player that is already falling without the ball.  The action of grabbing the leg and securing it as he falls through it is just nasty, and I hope it gets a good sized fine, and puts him on the "repeat offender" list with 3 offences.

[TBURGESS]

So you are saying an arm wrap below the knee is okay???
Is an arm wrap not considered a tackle or a hit?

An arm wrap is part of a tackle and it's OK. I'm saying it's not " (d) Delivering a blow at or below the knees of the passer".