Can we win 2025 with this coaching staff.

[tlf]

Was a frustrating game to watch, especially that brutal fourth quarter. I agree with all of the obvious points that have been made - how do you not give the ball to Brady, why is Zach throwing the long ball with a bolted on finger and glove.

And yes we were outcoached because Dinwiddie is the best coach and more importantly best offensive mind in the league. He did a masterful job of getting his #2 journeyman QB prepared by putting in a gameplan that would get the most out of what he could bring. And not overthinking it.

This is what I also believe.  I believe Dinwiddie has grown into a great coach.

I also believe O'Shea is a great coach... but Dinwiddie has also become one.  The difference has become in the Co-ordinators.  I hate to say it, but I am on team replace Buck.  That hurts.

You cannot go away from or be disloyal to your MOP when he is aching to play and turn around and play outright dumb plays.  Have your backup QB (who I actually like)..who's barely thrown in game situations keep throwing big passes instead of feeding your MOP the ball? Ridiculous. Brady is probably fuming and I do not blame him if he is.  He was calm in an interview and I don't know how he did it.

People who blame ZC, he had STITCHES.  That'd hurt like a SOB.  Good for him for being a leader and staying in. However, calling long passes is odd again.  Maybe short ones and the ground game.

Playcalling cost us.  Buck if he stays needs to go back up in the booth.

O'shea's loyalty is what keeps the good players here.  I don't have an issue with it..mostly.  Sometimes it goes too far, but it is mostly a good thing.

[blue_gold_84]

This, I still haven't forgiven Buck for his 2011 loss to the Lions in BC Place, he did nothing in that game.

I meant his gunslinger mentality often put him in bad spots as a QB, either throwing long bombs into bad coverage or getting smacked by defenders for holding on to the ball for too long. He never excelled in short passing situations.

That's ostensibly translated to him putting his offenses in his bad spots at inopportune times - and in big games.

[tlf]

I meant his gunslinger mentality often put him in bad spots as a QB, either throwing long bombs into bad coverage or getting smacked by defenders for holding on to the ball for too long. He never excelled in short passing situations.

That's ostensibly translated to him putting his offenses in his bad spots at inopportune times - and in big games.

I mean QBs do get hurt in big games on his watch. Hmm never connected the dots.

[theaardvark]

Heard DT on OB earlier today, and he mentioned that the passes Zach threw after the injury were decisions Zach made... the play gets called, and Zach would have a variety of options.  Zach saw Wilson open and decided to make that throw and came up short.

So, not 100% the play call, except that it wasn't called as a run, as it should have been.  Zach gets some blame for the choice, but still, this was a moment for a heavy set and BO20

[Blueforlife]

The only weakness on the D is he 3 man front as I see it.  Far too often Arbuckle had way too much time to throw the ball.  Willie was great but Garbutt, Fox and Thomas struggled.

3 man front worked good for the last 2/3 of the season and will continue to be an important part of our D.  We have had the best D for years.  Gotta mix it up but it's not going anywhere and is a league wide trend.

[dd]

Kinda miss the 4 man front when we had killer D ends with Willie and Jeffcoat, we could have had nobody in the secondary it didn't matter as those guys crushed Qb's. I m not a big fan of the rush 3 drop 9 and hope the offense can't complete a pass. We just saw a backup Qb handle that defensive set no problem as he had no pressure on him. Remember playing the Ticats in the GC and how much pressure we got on Dane Evans, that was insane, and it forced mistakes. I get why we don't rush 4--we can't get enough pressure so we revert back to the drop back 9 and hope we can make some plays. I still think we need to mix it up and get pressure from time to time

[TecnoGenius]

But until your opponent is decided and you KNOW who and what you are up against, any plans you make are out the door.  The week of the Grey Gup is the most important week of game planning and practice there is in the CFL.  Thinking you can skate in based on your season's accomplishments, well, I think we saw a little of that on Sunday. 

You can make calculated guesses who your next WDF and GC opponent will be.  And they will be right most of the time.  You can make a plan for the possibilities, putting as much effort into each as the odds dictate.  And you can modify your predictions as the season progresses.

For example, in 2021 it would have been a fair bet to assume we'd face HAM in the GC.

'22 would have been hard to guess TOR, though, as they were pretty stinky for a few years.  Same with '23.

But '24 you could bet the farm we'd be facing either TOR or MTL.

WDF since '21 it was clear we'll be facing BC or SSK.

You can't save it all until GC week where everybody is flown out of town like 5 days ahead of time.  Everybody is partying and doing awards shows and soaking it up.  You can't be doing your biggest brain work during that time, and even if you do, you don't have time to transfer that info effectively into the players.

I bet you anything both MTL and TOR braintrust (HC, coords) were working on plans and plays to beat the Bombers all season long (with less work on BC/SSK).

If I was running the ship, that's what I'd be doing.  I'd have turned the team into a TOR & MTL killer.

[TecnoGenius]

KW has his work cut out for him, and MOS has a tough decision to make about Buck.  I don't think we have an in house replacement at OC, but I bet there are those that would welcome an offer if we demote/dismiss Buck.  Which we definitely need to do. 

You don't fire an OC who continually gets you to the top of the West and wins you WDFs.  You just don't.  Such an OC is a coveted, talented OC.

Yes, Buck's plan stunk in the '24 GC, and probably '22 and '23 as well.  But that's just the final game.  Those are the hardest ones to win.

Everyone is upset, but canning Buck is a dumb idea, and he will instantly be snapped up by another team.

If you want to put the ultimate blame on someone, I'd aim at MOS.  He's simply not doing enough to incentivize his braintrust to plan enough to win cups.  And almost no one will say we should fire MOS...

I also want to re-point out the really poor performance of the REC corps in this game.  Buck didn't have the best ideas, but all the dropsies limit your chances at success.  It was the worst showing by them in any GC to date.

[TecnoGenius]

rookie special teams coach had a punt block dialled up but players don't know the rules

There was also a ton of bad luck, and almost all of it hit us, not TOR.  So many little "inches" things going their way, not ours.  We get rays of hope, then TOR gets the luck/calls.

It seemed like every time something nice happened for us, refs/command called it back or we took a penalty.  It was very depressing.

[TecnoGenius]

Our downfall in the big game was failing to use what got us there--the run game, effectively. 8 carries for our MOP, that's beyond ridiculous. Inexplainable, but more importantly inexcusable. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, we need someone else who understands developing an effective offensive game plan better.

How many series did we get in total?  Much more than 8?  How many went 2 & out, or one 1st down then punt?

It's hard to get Brady more touches when we ran him a lot on 1st and in 80% of them he gets stuffed... then we short pass on 2nd and TOR is tight and knocks the ball out because our RECs aren't doing their job.  That was the entire night.

People forget that the Brady touches are a function of getting many sustained drives.  If you don't have that, you don't hand off to him.

Look at how TOR tried Carey on 1st for a while and then went away from it when we proved we'd stuff him nearly every time?  Their RBs best work was on passes and 2nd down draws: that's where their stats came from.  That's the type of stuff we should have been doing.

[TecnoGenius]

Man, when Terry Wilson went in, in scoring range, and we have him attempt 4 straight passes?

The Wilson sequence was what lost the game for us.  We score there and we probably win.  Instead we squander the opportunity and the game snowballed into hopelessness.  That was the point where all morale and momentum was lost.

[TecnoGenius]

The only weakness on the D is he 3 man front as I see it.  Far too often Arbuckle had way too much time to throw the ball.  Willie was great but Garbutt, Fox and Thomas struggled.

The 3 man front is ok, but you have to mix in a few blitzes and hidden pass rushers every 2-3 snaps.

It was so clear and obvious Dinwiddie had Arbuckle prepared to be patient and wait because they knew we'd have a useless 3 man rush.  It's a miracle Willie & Garbutt managed to get in there sometimes given the circumstances.

We could have adjusted when Arbuckle proved he could wait it out and make a good read, but we didn't.  Just a few more random 4-man and blitzes might have made the difference.

[TecnoGenius]

Did Buck's head get screwed up by Pinball signing Bryan Scott?  Did he make some unnecessary and upsetting changes in his playbook due to the potential of "espionage"?

Maybe.  I'm a big believer in the shady "book stealing" theory.  We should 100% retaliate if this occurs in the future.  They sign Scott, we pick X player from their O who was cut or PR and sign him to a 1 week contract too.  Just to get them thinking...

We should also not keep a QB around learning the book to any significant degree and then cut him late in the season.  We should put him on the 1GIR and cut him after the cup.  What does cutting him 3-4 weeks ago save us on the SMS?  Insignificant.

Dinwiddie strikes me as severely cut-throat who will use any ploy or trick to gain an advantage... even ones that many would call shady or underhanded, or maybe even downright banned.

[TecnoGenius]

This, I still haven't forgiven Buck for his 2011 loss to the Lions in BC Place, he did nothing in that game.

We lose in '11 and it's the QB's fault, not the OC?
We lose in '24 and it's the OC's fault, not the QB?

Just pointing out the inconsistency with scapegoating Buck.  Buck did get us to 4 straight dances y'all.

[Blueforlife]

We lose in '11 and it's the QB's fault, not the OC?
We lose in '24 and it's the OC's fault, not the QB?

Just pointing out the inconsistency with scapegoating Buck.  Buck did get us to 4 straight dances y'all.

It's how the forum works.  We fail once and they forget years of success.

I see promise with Buck.