Challenges - Maximum Show

[Tecno]

I've noted here many times this season how the Command Centre has been handling challenges (and EITS automatic overturns) much differently compared to past seasons.  The successful fumble challenge in the SSK@EDM game, when it was clearly a case of "forward progress stopped", finally made it all "click" for me...

Command has a new mandate: maximum "show"; Maximum O, maximum TDs, maximum spectacle.  And this 100% jives with the new Commish and what his (stated) goals are.  No, I don't have the CFL internal memo saying this, but it's the only thing that fits all the pieces together.

So many overturned non-called DPIs this season, compared to last season when they raised the bar so high it was virtually impossible to overturn anything.  Everything they came up with last season with "clear and obvious" "no slow-mo" is out the window.  Because overturning a non-called DPI to DPI helps the O, moves the ball, and gets people closer to scoring, they are now overturning the majority of them.

The EDM fumble in prior years would stand on "forward progress" and be a non-fumble (call upheld).  We've seen this probably a dozen times in 5 years.  But new Commish wants more Show and Spectacle, and so command overturns it to a fumble.  And it quite handily explains the "BLM was going for it" hookslide debacle.  Heaven forbid the "New Command" reverse a Huge Spectacle BLM rushing TD!

I don't really care that they've made this change, I just don't like how it's a vast departure from recent precedent, and, like most CFL things, has been done in an opaque manner.  That leaves fans guessing, and wondering why what they've learned these calls will be is no longer the case.

But now that I solved the rubik's cube, HCs need to be aware so that they can maximize their challenges.  This means that they shouldn't be deathly afraid to challenge an uncalled DPI, like they had to be previously.  I think the only thing a HC needs to ask themselves is: "does winning this challenge add to the SHOW?" -- if so, throw that flag.

And of course, you have to have a legit challenge, Command isn't going to just make stuff up; but the bar is now set low if you have The Show on your side.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

...What?

[Pete]

Sometimes you just overthink it

[Stretch]

Sometimes you just overthink it

He only does that on days ending in "y".

[Tecno]

Sigh, my talents are wasted on this forum sometimes.

If anyone here thinks Command is working to the same "clear and obvious" "overturn nothing" standard as mid/late last season (post-memo -- published, not imagined) then they are not paying attention.

Command is working to a brand new standard since week 1 2025.  And I figured out why.

Go believe whatever you want, but if you're a HC, you might want to read my post.  (Though I'm getting the impression HCs either got a memo or already figured it out -- no one would have challenged the EDM forward progress thing last season.)

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Or, you don't need to post every weird thing that pops in your head?

No, there isn't a single coach challenging plays based on the thought process you suggested: "does winning this challenge add to the SHOW?"

That's absurd on basically every level. 

[Tecno]

No, there isn't a single coach challenging plays based on the thought process you suggested: "does winning this challenge add to the SHOW?"

I'm just too far ahead, sorry.  I do something called, thinking, and reflecting.  I know it takes energy.  But it's rewarding, I promise.

Give me one other explanation for the complete 180 Command has done this year vs last?  One.

In no other world does the EDM forward progress thing get overturned.  Explain it if I'm wrong.  Even bombsquad agrees it shouldn't have been overturned (in the SSK thread).

In no other world is a hook-sliding BLM deemed "going for it" by command.  Command has never uttered those words before in 112+ years.  Why is it suddenly a thing under the new Commish?

The ONLY explanation that makes EVERY 2025 PUZZLE PIECE fall into place is the new Commish told Command before week 1 that they should ALWAYS ERR ON THE SIDE OF MORE TDS, MORE SCORES, MORE SHOW.  Of course, I don't know the exact wording, but that explains all the crazy-butt stuff Command has done this season.  And why wouldn't Commish do such a thing, to put his mark on HIS league?  After all, he's about to blow up the whole league and half its traditions... what's a little memo to Command in comparison?

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I don't need to, Techno. Sometimes someone is just wrong. That's you on this one.

Coaches care about winning. They will challenge plays they think will help them win.

At no point are they thinking about "The Show". Go ask Mike O'Shea at the coaches show if you don't believe me.

There's no puzzle. There are no puzzle pieces. It's just a guy in a room with a TV trying to apply the rules in correctly in under a minute. Check in with a loved one. Touch grass. Something.

[Tecno]

I don't need to, Techno. Sometimes someone is just wrong. That's you on this one.

Coaches care about winning. They will challenge plays they think will help them win.

No.  Good HC's challenge plays they think Command will overturn based on the entirety of the precedents to date, modified by any published memos they have received.

Remember the CFL public memo about the massive Command "clear and obvious" shift mid-season 2024?  After it became clear they really meant it (2-3 games later), good HCs stopped challenging even obvious uncalled DPI, because Command wasn't giving them to ANYONE.

At no point are they thinking about "The Show". Go ask Mike O'Shea at the coaches show if you don't believe me.

Not yet.  But if they come to the same conclusion I have, then they might.

To be a good challenger you have to be in the mind of Command, and/or be privy to, or guess, the instructions Command has gotten from the league.

Check in with a loved one. Touch grass. Something.

Mowing and weeding all day.  My lawn hasn't looked this good in years.  2,4D legal again is a wonderful thing, as is the copious rain.  That pesky tiny mosquito species sucks rocks though.  I much prefer the honkin' albatross-sized early summer ones.  Maybe it was all the green that gave me the inspiration for this serendipitous insight.  Might be my best one yet.

P.S. I notice you ignored my "name one" questions.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Yikes.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Mowing and weeding all day.  My lawn hasn't looked this good in years.  2,4D legal again is a wonderful thing, as is the copious rain.  That pesky tiny mosquito species sucks rocks though.  I much prefer the honkin' albatross-sized early summer ones.  Maybe it was all the green that gave me the inspiration for this serendipitous insight.  Might be my best one yet.

My favourite mosquitoes are the ones that fly around in the winter here in BC when it's snowing, it's such a surprise sometimes you can't believe your eyes.

[Pete]

I've noted here many times this season how the Command Centre has been handling challenges (and EITS automatic overturns) much differently compared to past seasons.  The successful fumble challenge in the SSK@EDM game, when it was clearly a case of "forward progress stopped", finally made it all "click" for me...

Command has a new mandate: maximum "show"; Maximum O, maximum TDs, maximum spectacle.  And this 100% jives with the new Commish and what his (stated) goals are.  No, I don't have the CFL internal memo saying this, but it's the only thing that fits all the pieces together.

So many overturned non-called DPIs this season, compared to last season when they raised the bar so high it was virtually impossible to overturn anything.  Everything they came up with last season with "clear and obvious" "no slow-mo" is out the window.  Because overturning a non-called DPI to DPI helps the O, moves the ball, and gets people closer to scoring, they are now overturning the majority of them.

The EDM fumble in prior years would stand on "forward progress" and be a non-fumble (call upheld).  We've seen this probably a dozen times in 5 years.  But new Commish wants more Show and Spectacle, and so command overturns it to a fumble.  And it quite handily explains the "BLM was going for it" hookslide debacle.  Heaven forbid the "New Command" reverse a Huge Spectacle BLM rushing TD!

I don't really care that they've made this change, I just don't like how it's a vast departure from recent precedent, and, like most CFL things, has been done in an opaque manner.  That leaves fans guessing, and wondering why what they've learned these calls will be is no longer the case.

But now that I solved the rubik's cube, HCs need to be aware so that they can maximize their challenges.  This means that they shouldn't be deathly afraid to challenge an uncalled DPI, like they had to be previously.  I think the only thing a HC needs to ask themselves is: "does winning this challenge add to the SHOW?" -- if so, throw that flag.

And of course, you have to have a legit challenge, Command isn't going to just make stuff up; but the bar is now set low if you have The Show on your side.

To paraphrase Jerry Maguire line : you lost me at " mandate"

[Tecno]

My favourite mosquitoes are the ones that fly around in the winter here in BC when it's snowing, it's such a surprise sometimes you can't believe your eyes.

Pictures or it didn't happen!     

So WPG beats BC in the mosquito department in ONE facet?  I'll take it.

[bomb squad]

I'm just too far ahead, sorry.  I do something called, thinking, and reflecting.  I know it takes energy.  But it's rewarding, I promise.

Give me one other explanation for the complete 180 Command has done this year vs last?  One.

In no other world does the EDM forward progress thing get overturned.  Explain it if I'm wrong.  Even bombsquad agrees it shouldn't have been overturned (in the SSK thread).

In no other world is a hook-sliding BLM deemed "going for it" by command.  Command has never uttered those words before in 112+ years.  Why is it suddenly a thing under the new Commish?

The ONLY explanation that makes EVERY 2025 PUZZLE PIECE fall into place is the new Commish told Command before week 1 that they should ALWAYS ERR ON THE SIDE OF MORE TDS, MORE SCORES, MORE SHOW.  Of course, I don't know the exact wording, but that explains all the crazy-butt stuff Command has done this season.  And why wouldn't Commish do such a thing, to put his mark on HIS league?  After all, he's about to blow up the whole league and half its traditions... what's a little memo to Command in comparison?

I'm just too far ahead, sorry.  I do something called, thinking, and reflecting.  I know it takes energy.  But it's rewarding, I promise.

Give me one other explanation for the complete 180 Command has done this year vs last?  One.

In no other world does the EDM forward progress thing get overturned.  Explain it if I'm wrong.  Even bombsquad agrees it shouldn't have been overturned (in the SSK thread).

In no other world is a hook-sliding BLM deemed "going for it" by command.  Command has never uttered those words before in 112+ years.  Why is it suddenly a thing under the new Commish?

The ONLY explanation that makes EVERY 2025 PUZZLE PIECE fall into place is the new Commish told Command before week 1 that they should ALWAYS ERR ON THE SIDE OF MORE TDS, MORE SCORES, MORE SHOW.  Of course, I don't know the exact wording, but that explains all the crazy-butt stuff Command has done this season.  And why wouldn't Commish do such a thing, to put his mark on HIS league?  After all, he's about to blow up the whole league and half its traditions... what's a little memo to Command in comparison?

I just think it was a horribly blown call. Really, the way it should have gone down is the referee tells Pierce that it was blown dead on forward progress, and he may want to withdraw his challenge. If the coach wants to challenge regardless, the Ref should explain his call to the replay center. It appears none of this happened. And to exacerbate these errors, the replay center then goes on to blow the review (I don't say that often). Maybe they don't use audio when they review? That's all I can think of. It was a terrible mistake because the consequence is that now everyone's going to be clinging to the runner after the whistle trying to pry the ball loose. So, there's no way that's the "new" way to call those.

Blown calls are going to happen though. No system is perfect. But, no way would I consider that there is some kind of sleezy, conspiratory, ulterior motive involved. This isn't some gadget league like the XFL.

[Big Daddy]

I just think it was a horribly blown call. Really, the way it should have gone down is the referee tells Pierce that it was blown dead on forward progress, and he may want to withdraw his challenge. If the coach wants to challenge regardless, the Ref should explain his call to the replay center. It appears none of this happened. And to exacerbate these errors, the replay center then goes on to blow the review (I don't say that often). Maybe they don't use audio when they review? That's all I can think of. It was a terrible mistake because the consequence is that now everyone's going to be clinging to the runner after the whistle trying to pry the ball loose. So, there's no way that's the "new" way to call those.

Blown calls are going to happen though. No system is perfect. But, no way would I consider that there is some kind of sleezy, conspiratory, ulterior motive involved. This isn't some gadget league like the XFL.

To be fair, I don't think Tecno is fully tin-foil hat here and thinking it is a conspiracy.  It really isn't a huge stretch to think a new mandate (there's that word) was given to command center in order to optimize offense.

He's also not wrong that the new commish has shown he isn't afraid to make big changes that are not going to be popular.  I am not debating if the reported (not proposed) changes are good or bad, just saying they are the biggest changes I've ever seen in my time following football.  It certainly isn't inconceivable that this less than a year in commissioner would then tweak the command center's instructions.

I agree - you would think it would be reported to coaches and others, if these changes would come in and affect in-game decisions.

It's the same commissioner overseeing things when the league suddenly added available money to the cap in the middle of free agency  this year, that no one knew about according to our brass.  If it wasn't reported and out there, that would seem ridiculous and inconceivable as well.