Should the overpaid stars restructure?

[Blue In BC]

Great thread BTW.  In football you are only as good as your last snap.  Everyone should be looking over their shoulder after every outing.  The team needs to looking for better alternatives at every position, every game.  That's how it works.  Everyone loves football, football loves no one.  It is brutal on and off the field.

Fans need to accept their favs won't be around forever and Father Time beats them all.

Long term successful regimes know when to cut bait.  This is new and a learning curve for everyone but tough decisions need to be made.  Coaches included.

That's not even close to true or a reasonable position to take. Every player on every roster has bad days or makes bad plays.

An assessment is based on a body of work over time. What one player does may be the result of what another does around him.

An OL missing a block may result in a RB tackled for a loss, a QB being sacked or throwing a pick. Collaros 1st pick was tipped at the LOS. That's on the OL, or possibly Augustine as well as Collaros. Two rookie receivers not on same page as Collaros etc.

If Collaros had some how managed a TD in that last series and we won, it wouldn't have meant all is well either.

Bombers lead the entire CFL in scoring in 2023. There is more to our problems than any single one thing or one player.

[theaardvark]

One spectacular defensive play by Webb from the win.  That's how close this game was.  Webb made a superman defend of a TD pass.  A little more zip (wet grip) and it's there. 

But lets negotiate Collaros, Lawler, Demski, Schoen down so we might have a chance at an unproven NFL reject coming up mid season.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Blue In BC]

One spectacular defensive play by Webb from the win.  That's how close this game was.  Webb made a superman defend of a TD pass.  A little more zip (wet grip) and it's there. 

But lets negotiate Collaros, Lawler, Demski, Schoen down so we might have a chance at an unproven NFL reject coming up mid season.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

While that's true we lost the Grey Cup 2022 and 2023 due to one bad play by our defence or one good play by our opponent offence.

Film study and execution finds the tendencies or the opponent. In spite of our success over several years, we are often very predictable. At best that pass to Schoen was very close to the sidelines on a slippery field. I wonder if he was the primary receiver since it took too long to get the ball out?

[Blueforlife]

The forum has reverted back to pre-dynasty mode after two loses.  The disfunction has resumed.  I thought it was bad back then.  This is worse.  Some things never change.  Get your feed ready.

[Jesse]

The forum has reverted back to pre-dynasty mode after two loses.  The disfunction has resumed.  I thought it was bad back then.  This is worse.  Some things never change.  Get your feed ready.

When the club is playing poorly, we use negative adjectives to describe them. When they are playing well, we will use positive adjectives.

There's nothing dysfunctional about talking about how poorly the club is playing. There's no point in having a forum if we're only allowed to say good things.

[GOLDMEMBER]

The forum has reverted back to pre-dynasty mode after two loses.  The disfunction has resumed.  I thought it was bad back then.  This is worse.  Some things never change.  Get your feed ready.

No this is not much compared to the sparse days. You are incorrect.

[ModAdmin]

When the club is playing poorly, we use negative adjectives to describe them. When they are playing well, we will use positive adjectives.

There's nothing dysfunctional about talking about how poorly the club is playing. There's no point in having a forum if we're only allowed to say good things.

Completely agree the forum goes through the ups and downs of winning and losing.  The forum is not dysfunctional. 

The issue is extreme views of the situations that are expressed by a certain few and that becomes very distracting to legitimate discussions that attempt to constructively identify the strengths and weaknesses on the team.

This forum, I believe, is blessed with a number seasoned football fans who can discuss things rationally.  Unfortunately, there are a few who simply let their emotions, or their desire simply to troll, to get the better of them.

Moderators, though not perfect, will always try to keep discussions on track, in adherence to the rules and weed out those who post extreme or troll-like views.  But it would be a mis-characterization to call the forum "dysfunctional".

There, got that off my chest!

[GOLDMEMBER]

Completely agree the forum goes through the ups and downs of winning and losing.  The forum is not dysfunctional. 

The issue is extreme views of the situations that are expressed by a certain few and that becomes very distracting to legitimate discussions that attempt to constructively identify the strengths and weaknesses on the team.

This forum, I believe, is blessed with a number seasoned football fans who can discuss things rationally.  Unfortunately, there are a few who simply let their emotions, or their desire simply to troll, to get the better of them.

Moderators, though not perfect, will always try to keep discussions on track, in adherence to the rules and weed out those who post extreme or troll-like views.  But it would be a mis-characterization to call the forum "dysfunctional".

There, got that off my chest!

Good man Mod!

[TecnoGenius]

If the team thinks someone is not pulling their weight, they will get cut.  Or traded.  Or benched.

Restructuring sends all the wrong messages. 

Wow.  How quickly many of you guys forget all of the CFL contract restructures in recent years.  This is not unprecedented for injured, underperforming, or even just overpaid players.

And some of these players come out and say they are doing it to help the team sign winners and win games.

Big names who have restructured contracts lower in recent years:

Vernon Adams Jr in BC
Bo Levi Mitchell in HAM
Masoli in OTT
Adam Bighill in WPG
Mike Reilly in BC

At the time of the restructure, all of them were either on the downtrend (however slight) or having injury problems.  If you don't believe me, just google "contract restructure <player name>".

So those teams and players didn't think it "sent the wrong message": actually it's the opposite, they are saying "I'm currently not worthy of that huge salary and/or I would rather my team have more SMS to surround me with better talent for the good of the team".

No one is talking about forcing anyone.  But the idea can be put out there in Bomber Land.  Then let FIFO sort itself out amongst the players, if that's what they want.

[TecnoGenius]

And what benefit would it have? Free Agency is over.

Tell that to MTL in 2023.  Having some extra SMS allowed them to bring in Lemon & Sankey when they saw shortcomings in their roster.

Well, we clearly -- even before injuries! -- had/have shortcomings on our roster!  But unlike MTL in '23, we have no SMS left.

I'm trying to offer viable solutions to our dire predicament.  This seems like one option.

There are plenty of unsigned vets, maybe-not-so-retired retirees, and there will be cast-offs happening every week, and a ton by vet cutdown day.  Just because we're into the season and FA is officially over, doesn't mean there aren't options.

For example, we're in mega dire need of DEs.  We needed some spare DEs even before Haba went down.  So why not give Jeffcoat a call, with hat in hand?  Ya, no SMS... so why can't a few of the top-paid Bombers restructure to free up $15k each?  That more than covers the hit Jeffcoat would cost over an ELC.

Look at it this way: Haba was probably our 2nd or 3rd string DE last season.  So we're rolling with a 2nd string as the starter this year, already not a great situation.  Ya, we're hoping for the best and he can advance, etc, but right now it's just hope.  Now if Haba is gone we are going to roll with who in '23 would have been our 3rd/4th stringer.  Assume he advanced as well, so that means we're going to start a 2nd/3rd stringer at DE -- a guy we barely wanted on the '24 PR!  Who here thinks that will be a recipe for success?

Worse still, the backup/rotation for that 2nd/3rd stringer we start at DE will be our '23 4th/5th stringer who probably didn't even make it through our '23 TC!

Or, we can get on the phone to the couch sitters or whoever shakes free in the next little while, and sign someone who was at worst a 2nd/3rd stringer on another team.  At least we can get someone who has had at least a season of dressing under their belt.

[TecnoGenius]

Where do you think these quality replacements will come from even if SMS is not an issue? If we win the next 3 games, do vets restructure for more money? That is not the way it works.

A lot will depend on what the injury situation looks like.  If we are down even half of the injured WR, RB, DE, DT, DB on the 6GIR, then ya, even if we're winning buckets (which we won't) it will be clear that we need to fill some of those ranks with vets from elsewhere.  And since they won't play for ELC, the only way you get any vets is by having free SMS.  The 6GIR will give us back maybe enough for ELCs, it will take some restructuring to give us back enough to pick up vets.

Can you blame Lawler or Oliveria for getting injured?

No, but a can't-play-prone player is always of lower value to teams.  Look at Jeffcoat, the epitome of this situation.  And if the can't-play-prone player is also a league's top-paid player... well surely that gives you some wiggle room.

Brady, of course, isn't can't-play-prone, so I'm mostly looking at Kenny.  Missed half of '22 with EDM due to injury.  Missed half of '23 with us due to criminal conviction problems.  Now will miss half of '24 due to a fracture.  All roughly speaking, of course.  So since returning to WPG has he given us the value we expected and are paying for?  Not by a long shot.  Is it his fault?  Well, '23 is, but of course fractures are not.  But it still counts against him in the grand calculation of value.

The cool part is, if he restructures to help out the team, he wins as much as the team does.  When it's time to re-sign Kenny I guarantee you games-missed enters into the calculation.  If he restructures to $250k this year, I guarantee you it makes it easier for us to pull the trigger on a re-sign vs just letting him walk a la Jeffcoat or Nick Moore.

If he produces in '24 about as much as he did in '23, and he's up for re-signing next FA at $300k, I'll bet money right now we let him walk.  So why not do what makes him look like an altruistic hero, helps the team, and helps him get re-signed down the road?

[TecnoGenius]

Do the players restructure their salaries after a couple good games? 
Silly thread

Yes.  Kelly massively restructured his salary UP after one good game.

[TecnoGenius]

I think you missed a couple other names: Neufeld and Bighill

Thank you!  Very good point.  Bighill has, on many occasions, restructured his contract down to help the team and realize that his on-field value has somewhat diminished as he gets older.  That's precisely what I am talking about.

He's the perfect example because he was, for a short period of time, the league's top paid D player, much like Willie.

I'm not sure about Neufeld in terms of restructuring, but I do know that come re-signing time he's always been reasonable and even said he takes less salary here because he likes it and doesn't want to move, and I'm sure he also wants to help leave SMS for the team to surround him with talent.

[TecnoGenius]

From the injury thread:

"Oakman would also be my first choice. Mason Bennett if he's still out there, or maybe Kongbo."

Add in Jeffcoat.

There are already 4 examples of couch-sitters just waiting for the call that we could start in a week or 2, if. we. had. the. sms. to. pay. above. ELC.  Where's that SMS going to come from?  Neptune?

[Blueforlife]

No this is not much compared to the sparse days. You are incorrect.

It's not about being correct or not; we all have an opinion, the truth is often in the middle of two opposing views.  I found the forum had a lot of negativity pre dynasty.  I was routinely the target or many folks as I supported our vision as a club.  Back then the targets of many negative and extreme views were focused management, Hall, MOS (early days), our defense and I defended them all.  Back then there was a vocal group pushing for change, while another group seen the value of patience. I see a similar flavor this season in the criticisms of this club.

When the club is playing poorly, we use negative adjectives to describe them. When they are playing well, we will use positive adjectives.

There's nothing dysfunctional about talking about how poorly the club is playing. There's no point in having a forum if we're only allowed to say good things.

Debate is welcome, positive and negative views are welcome.  As mentioned above the dysfunction refers to the extreme views, knee jerk reactions, emotional responses, trolling and needless back and forth with people trying to prove themselves right. 

Some have found this thread and some of its content welcome and well received, while other find it a little much.  I have found the tone from a group of posters recently that reminds me of the pre dynasty years.  The behavior, language, etc. Is similar, imo.

I find the forum mood has a major swing when the club shows weakness.  I don't see as strong a swing when we succeed in small doses.  For example two loses and some are throwing in the towel.  If we won two I don't think that many would have booked the GC parade.

Completely agree the forum goes through the ups and downs of winning and losing.  The forum is not dysfunctional. 

The issue is extreme views of the situations that are expressed by a certain few and that becomes very distracting to legitimate discussions that attempt to constructively identify the strengths and weaknesses on the team.

This forum, I believe, is blessed with a number seasoned football fans who can discuss things rationally.  Unfortunately, there are a few who simply let their emotions, or their desire simply to troll, to get the better of them.

Moderators, though not perfect, will always try to keep discussions on track, in adherence to the rules and weed out those who post extreme or troll-like views.  But it would be a mis-characterization to call the forum "dysfunctional".

There, got that off my chest!

Agree on ups and downs.  Agree on extreme views.  Agree on how there are a core group of exceptional educated and edicated members that provide a great deal of value and information.

Yes some posters have troll like behavior and this comes and goes.  Yes emotions do play a role.  Mods on here have always done a good job.  It was never my intent to hint at any dysfunction on part of the mods. I have also seen the ability of the forum to self regulate itself at times.  The dysfunction refers to the extreme views, knee jerk reactions, emotional responses, trolling and needless back and forth with people trying to prove themselves right.  Often we see new posters come and go in a flash of extreme viewings, trolling and bad behavior.

I seen this behavior come and go as a result of how successful this club is.  When we have bad stretches of play, strings of bad games or aspects of our game that are weak, people pile on and don't see the forest through the trees.

I hope for balance this season on the forum.  It's a fine line as the debate is welcome; it just gets little much at times.  Perhaps dysfunctional was too harsh of a term or a poor choice of words on my part.

I had a strong belief in this club pre dynasty and really defended our direction.  I still believe but I see cracks in our foundations.  On the cusp of either another year or two of winning or time for change.  I am on the fence and will decide by labour day which direction we headed.  As usual our success will be largely dictated by how healthy we are.

I appreciate all three of your opinions and responses.  Many of us try our best to make this place a healthy and functional environment and I am really happy to be a part of it.  I have been on here a long time and certainly have had my ups and downs as well.  Trying to fly more level with my approach to my posts and views.  Going to try to stay to keep it clean on here and not get caught up in the wave this time around.

From the injury thread:

"Oakman would also be my first choice. Mason Bennett if he's still out there, or maybe Kongbo."

Add in Jeffcoat.

There are already 4 examples of couch-sitters just waiting for the call that we could start in a week or 2, if. we. had. the. sms. to. pay. above. ELC.  Where's that SMS going to come from?  Neptune?

Pass on all, the answer is Jupiter