The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[Jesse]

I am starting to think that the weak link in our secondary is Houston. He leads the league in INT's but he also gets picked on more and misses more tackles than anyone else in the secondary. I think ADS has surpassed Houston.

He is targetted the least amount on anyone in our secondary and makes the most plays. ADS has been picked on more (by far) than any other DB.

Someone posted this on the other site, but Houston has been targeted 19 times and half of those (9) are knocked down or intercepted.

Anyone saying he is anything but our best DB is selling you a false narrative because he's been beat on a couple of long bombs.

[The Zipp]

He is targetted the least amount on anyone in our secondary and makes the most plays. ADS has been picked on more (by far) than any other DB.

Someone posted this on the other site, but Houston has been targeted 19 times and half of those (9) are knocked down or intercepted.

Anyone saying he is anything but our best DB is selling you a false narrative because he's been beat on a couple of long bombs.

Nichols is our best DB - nobody throws to him.  Shut down guy. 

[bwiser]

Nichols is probably the best DB in the CFL.

[Blue72]

I noticed the our RB was to close to the line to help stop guys from getting to Zac, did anyone else noticed that.  Zac needs more protection this year as he doesn't run out of the pocket as much plus oline not helping very much against younger faster D players.

Our linebacking group are mostly ST players and not the next man up type players. People say that Bighill is slowing down but look what he has on either side of him. Wilson when he got hurt was real good buy the guys replacing his are backups at best. Same goes with Darby was good last year buy has taken a step back this year. Kramdi is his backup but was outplayed and out of position during the game yesterday, and Cole could be good but took a dumb penalty yesterday. As for Gauthier and Briggs, again slower then last year and when the replace Clements of Bighill you noticed the difference, again special team players. This LBer group surely don't help the front line much.

Need to improve on the DE replacements as we don't know how long Hansen will be out.

[pjrocksmb]

Dumb thing to say by MOS. Really bugged me.

He explains away terrible plays by players all the time, poor coaching calls, absolutely incompetent roster decisions.

But he calls Houston selfish for making a play at the end of the game? Call out the players who aren't making play for you, Mike.

Disagree with everything you said here and not sure where all this negativity around one of the best coaches in Bomber history is coming from.

I am starting to think that the weak link in our secondary is Houston. He leads the league in INT's but he also gets picked on more and misses more tackles than anyone else in the secondary. I think ADS has surpassed Houston.

Too early to tell

It took a game-and-a-half for the Bombers to get their terrible football out of their system, but by the second half last night they were more or less back on track.

I think they O-line is ageing out a bit, and some changes need to be coming there. Other than that, I seem to be a lot less concerned than a lot of other people here.

It's a long season. There will be ups and downs, and the important thing is to peak at the right time. The Bombers last year were absolutely unbeatable for roughly the first half of the season, one of the greatest teams in CFL history during that time. Where did it get them? No Grey Cup, that's for sure.

It could be argued that they peaked too early last year; the same thing happened with the incredible 2001 team. There's no way we want that to happen again.

The talent is still there. We need longer memories. I can't even fathom the mindset of a fan who's enjoyed the past few seasons, but then threatens to turn the game off after two series in the first quarter. You guys are a tough crowd. Is that what an exceptional run of success buys a team? A fanbase that jumps off the bandwagon at the slightest sign of struggle?

I could understand this ten years ago, when they were consistently awful, year after year, but this team has built up a lot of goodwill, and deserve the benefit of the doubt for awhile now. Even if they are slowing down and getting old, they're not going from 15-3 to 9-9 in one season, and even if they did, it's the Circle of Life, football edition. The bye week has come at the best possible time; let's see what happens going forward.

But show a bit of respect for everything this team has accomplished. Some of you sound like you would have booed Kenny Ploen in 1967, because what has he done for us lately?

If I want blind panic, resentment, and paranoia, I'll go to riderfans.com. We should be better than that here.

Make some good points here.  This forum is a great place but it swings to the negative very fast.  Seen that before and how it will always be. 

Agree on the oline and that the talent is here.

Lots of people have set their bar really high which is great but we have to be realistic at time.  Won't roll over everyone like we have been accustomed to.  That said I think when healthy this club will be close to as good as we have seen in recent history.

[dd]

Here's the thing, in the CFL I've seen D players that can make an INT knock it down instead maybe 3 times in 10 years.  They are just programmed to INT and when it's coming their way their brain shortcircuits and they just act on instinct.  Ya, they want the stat, but they have to change up their muscle memory for one rare play and they often just forget.  I bet they never practice that, either.

You could also argue that if you try an unpracticed knockdown instead, you may flub it and instead tip it to the receiver.  When they have a definite bead on a sure INT, might it be safer to secure it properly?  And at the very end of a game, it doesn't matter anyhow, unless we wanted to run up the score.

MOS is dead right??it?s selfish football, plain and simple. Guys are playing for stats not the team when they do that. And spare me the programmed to intercept BS. I?ve coached for 20 years, played 40 years ago, and on 3rd down in your D huddle the players are reminded by the captain to knock it down. I know I was that captain. A player who intercepts for a loss on 3 rd down is absolutely 100% selfish and good on MOS for calling him out on this . He knew he was to knock it down he just chose to play for the stat and glory, instead he gets chewed by the coach, as he should have been!

[Lincoln Locomotive]

MOS is dead right??it?s selfish football, plain and simple. Guys are playing for stats not the team when they do that. And spare me the programmed to intercept BS. I?ve coached for 20 years, played 40 years ago, and on 3rd down in your D huddle the players are reminded by the captain to knock it down. I know I was that captain. A player who intercepts for a loss on 3 rd down is absolutely 100% selfish and good on MOS for calling him out on this . He knew he was to knock it down he just chose to play for the stat and glory, instead he gets chewed by the coach, as he should have been!

Looking at the replay based on the coverage it wasn't necessarily an easy pass to knock down.....always a chance of a tip to the opposing receiver.  He secured the ball and the game was really over at that point.    Yeah, we would have scrimmaged close to their goal line, but so what.   We would have just run the clock out there or where Houston made the pick. 

I was actually surprised MOS called Houston out for it on camera....and so was Doug Brown on OB radio...not that he knows everything about football, but considerably more than most of us posting on here.  It's better to make those kind of statements about players in the locker room imho.   

Yes we won the game against a very very bad team and if we make those kind of mistakes against BC, we aren't winning that game.   I think MOS was a little cranky about the collective number of mistakes made by the Bombers despite the W and the final pick just picked him in the posterior!    Even if it was a bonehead play, which i don't think it really was, he shouldn't have gone off on camera about it.....just sayin.   

[theaardvark]

Looking at the replay based on the coverage it wasn't necessarily an easy pass to knock down.....always a chance of a tip to the opposing receiver.  He secured the ball and the game was really over at that point.    Yeah, we would have scrimmaged close to their goal line, but so what.   We would have just run the clock out there or where Houston made the pick. 

I was actually surprised MOS called Houston out for it on camera....and so was Doug Brown on OB radio...not that he knows everything about football, but considerably more than most of us posting on here.  It's better to make those kind of statements about players in the locker room imho.   

Yes we won the game against a very very bad team and if we make those kind of mistakes against BC, we aren't winning that game.   I think MOS was a little cranky about the collective number of mistakes made by the Bombers despite the W and the final pick just picked him in the posterior!    Even if it was a bonehead play, which i don't think it really was, he shouldn't have gone off on camera about it.....just sayin.  

It may have been hard to "knock it down", but it was very, very easy to drop it... just don't survive contact with the turf...

[TecnoGenius]

I am starting to think that the weak link in our secondary is Houston. He leads the league in INT's but he also gets picked on more and misses more tackles than anyone else in the secondary. I think ADS has surpassed Houston.

Houston is the man.  Third year I think?  The only better DBs are Nichols and Rose (you can debate Rose, I don't).

Swarm will be the one sitting.  Even maybe Holm.  If Rose sucks a couple of games, then we play with the roster.

I've been paying attention to Swarm a lot and he's clearly been instructed to play far off and behind his guy.  That's why he's always making those running-up after-the-catch tackles.  Basically every tackle by Swarm is that tackle.  He's good at it, and his timing is good (no DPI, no waiting for the R to take off).  But he's not even close to what our vet guys are capable of.

Not saying he won't be better in 1-2 years, are promising DB prospects usually blossom as they gain experience.  But right now he's just the "new guy".

[Lincoln Locomotive]

It may have been hard to "knock it down", but it was very, very easy to drop it... just don't survive contact with the turf...

yeah....ok then that requires some timing so as not to make it a catch and then a fumble.   Personally, I was happy that he simply secured possession of the ball to ensure there was a turnover.   What I didn't really like, was his extended celebration after making the pick....perhaps that irked MOS as much as the pick itself.
It was however out of character for MOS to call out his player for it on air....save the critique for the sidelines or locker room.   

[Blue In BC]

It may have been hard to "knock it down", but it was very, very easy to drop it... just don't survive contact with the turf...

Instead of putting both hands at the middle on each side, you put both hands on the nose of the ball to knock it down. More of a swat than a grab motion.

[dd]

Looking at the replay based on the coverage it wasn't necessarily an easy pass to knock down.....always a chance of a tip to the opposing receiver.  He secured the ball and the game was really over at that point.    Yeah, we would have scrimmaged close to their goal line, but so what.   We would have just run the clock out there or where Houston made the pick. 

I was actually surprised MOS called Houston out for it on camera....and so was Doug Brown on OB radio...not that he knows everything about football, but considerably more than most of us posting on here.  It's better to make those kind of statements about players in the locker room imho.   

Yes we won the game against a very very bad team and if we make those kind of mistakes against BC, we aren't winning that game.   I think MOS was a little cranky about the collective number of mistakes made by the Bombers despite the W and the final pick just picked him in the posterior!    Even if it was a bonehead play, which i don't think it really was, he shouldn't have gone off on camera about it.....just sayin.   

The play was selfish, and MOS is all about team, always has been always will be. I knew Osh would be upset with that play as it goes against the very principle he?s fought so hard to instill in our locker room. Speaking out publically tells me he isn?t about to back down from that philosophy and if you don?t like it tough, quit making stupid plays, play for the team or go play somewhere else. I d be shocked if Houston stays in the lineup after injured players come back. Yes he leads the team in picks but it isn?t about stats with MOS it?s about the team and if you aren?t a team first player you ain?t gonna last here and I fully support him on that

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Looking at the replay based on the coverage it wasn't necessarily an easy pass to knock down.....always a chance of a tip to the opposing receiver.  He secured the ball and the game was really over at that point.    Yeah, we would have scrimmaged close to their goal line, but so what.   We would have just run the clock out there or where Houston made the pick. 

I was actually surprised MOS called Houston out for it on camera....and so was Doug Brown on OB radio...not that he knows everything about football, but considerably more than most of us posting on here.  It's better to make those kind of statements about players in the locker room imho.   

Yes we won the game against a very very bad team and if we make those kind of mistakes against BC, we aren't winning that game.   I think MOS was a little cranky about the collective number of mistakes made by the Bombers despite the W and the final pick just picked him in the posterior!    Even if it was a bonehead play, which i don't think it really was, he shouldn't have gone off on camera about it.....just sayin.   

I think this is one of those read between the line statements. That play in particular wasn't really that "selfish" in the sense that everyone knew the time on the clock and that we weren't going to run another play. I think it's more of a glimpse into the thinking about what he thinks about Houston's play this year in general. The long touchdown we gave up in the second half was because Houston got torched on the double move in a defense he knew he had no help on. He stays high, not worrying about the pick and we probably shut out Edmonton in the second half. I think it's a "big picture" comment more than a "that specific play", although that play served as another example.

[theaardvark]

It will be interesting to see how Houston, and the DB crew react to this.  Much like Swaggertown, DB's work as a group.  Not sure who the spiritual leader of this corps is, but either Houston mea culpa's and recognizes that, even though there was no chance that his interception changed the outcome, his action was selfish, and was not the proper play on the field.  If he goes the other way, and believes he was in the right taking the stat over making the unselfish play, then we could see some issues going forward.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

It will be interesting to see how Houston, and the DB crew react to this.  Much like Swaggertown, DB's work as a group.  Not sure who the spiritual leader of this corps is, but either Houston mea culpa's and recognizes that, even though there was no chance that his interception changed the outcome, his action was selfish, and was not the proper play on the field.  If he goes the other way, and believes he was in the right taking the stat over making the unselfish play, then we could see some issues going forward.

Two ways to look at it, maybe Houston was not in the moment and forgot what the appropriate play on the ball should be, or perhaps he was very much in the moment and knew it would have no effect on the result due to the time left on the clock.  Either way O'Shea should not have commented without forst consulting with the player.

The leaders in the secondary have been B.A. and Rose.