Argo QB, Chad Kelly sited in harassment/wrongful dismissal charges

[Blue In BC]

But why pick this one Kelly incident to bring up this novel idea?  It seems ridiculous that people are advocating extreme changes to SMS rules only now in light of the Kelly Situation(tm).

No one advocated for these changes when Durant shafted us, no one advocated for these changes when an abnormal number of 2022 TC players got mysterious achilles, no one advocated for these changes when all those players got DUIs, no one advocated for these changes when Lawler arguably shafted us on signing bonus value then missing 1/3 to 1/2 a season...

Yes, people moaned and groaned (especially the Durant issue) about the SMS shafting, but no one started saying the CFL should change the SMS rules just for us!

It really seems like it's all about Kelly being a superstar and the amount being so large ($300k).  But any SMS rules shouldn't depend on how good the player is, nor on how much some GM agreed to put out in advance!  They have to be fair and consistent across the board.  And any change should be well thought out, not some knee-jerk exception.

I'm not. I had the same argument last year about Lawler. His case happened long before 2023 and should have impacted the Elks in 2022, not the Bombers last year. It was a non football related issue.  I did also make that argument about early season injuries as well.

The suspension issue is a bit different. Let's use the Andrew Harris suspension for a PED which he denied and IIRC was proven not guilty?

That's essentially a potential issue where guilty before proven innocent.

There have been players injured in the off season playing basketball or some other normal human behaviour. Let's say a player signs a big new contract a day before free agency and then the next day slips on a banana peel on the street.

You don't think that should be an exception for a clawback?

[TecnoGenius]

If they terminate his contract for cause, they should be able to claw back his bonus, and should be given relief on what they claw back. 

That case would make for more of an argument.  If TOR got the cash back from Kelly, then one could argue, maybe, for SMS relief, because the money actually wasn't spent.  (What's to keep Kelly from just saying he spent it all already?)

I'm not sure there's any sign any team has ever clawed back any signing bonus for any reason.

Have to wonder, post the Durant retirement, if teams are now including a "Durant clause" that is "if a player does not take a snap for the team after signing, his bonuses are considered monies accepted under false pretenses and must be returned".

Hehe, then Durant would have dressed and played and the second snap he takes he walks off the field saying he's retiring.

[theaardvark]

That case would make for more of an argument.  If TOR got the cash back from Kelly, then one could argue, maybe, for SMS relief, because the money actually wasn't spent.  (What's to keep Kelly from just saying he spent it all already?)

I'm not sure there's any sign any team has ever clawed back any signing bonus for any reason.

Hehe, then Durant would have dressed and played and the second snap he takes he walks off the field saying he's retiring.

Yeah, not taking one snap is far to low a bar...  not sure how to word it best "best effort to complete the terms of the contract".  If he wants to come to camp and play himself off the team and let film of him sucking get distributed, so be it.

I am guessing no player in Durant's position will ever be offered up front money again... unless a team gets desperate.

On the other hand, the guy that ended up replacing Durant was.. Chris Streveler.   Had Durant shown up for camp and won the backup role, Bryan Bennett might have been our #3...

[TecnoGenius]

Wow.  Just finished the Pinball interview you guys posted.  He is NOT comfortable in that position, and was very hesitant and tentative with every answer.  Oh I bet he haaaaaaaaates Kelly for putting him in that boat!!! (Get it, boat, Argos...)

If Kelly wasn't a top-3 QB he'd probably can his butt.  As it stands, after this year he may still can his butt, or trade him off (probably the best scenario).  Unless Kelly wins another GC, of course...

Pinball is normally in full control in interviews and forcefully selling his vision.  Here, he's totally on his back foot.  I feel sorry for the guy.  The reporters (I think Scianitti was in there?) weren't pulling any punches either.  Asking some nice tough questions.  Pinball's deflection shows he could be a politician: "we're not here to answer those kinds of questions".  Haha.

Every other GM is watching Pinball squirm and being glad it's not them!

That said, Pinball did as good as one could do.  He didn't stick his foot in his mouth, or (alternatively) look like he was pandering too much.

[theaardvark]

So, I am wondering where we are at.

Kelly flatly denied any impropriety.

Coaches and front office backed him over the fired employee.

League office investigated and found enough evidence of wrongdoing that they imposed a minimum 9 game suspension.  Not a 9 game, but a minimum of 9 games.  Requiring the successful completion of a league mandated retraining.

No penalties for coaches or front office that allowed the action to take place, and who did not alert the league.

Pinball has spent decades building his brand, being a good guy and trying to build the Argos into a respected member of the league. 

And all that is dashed by one idiot with too good an arm to cut loose.

Now we are cursed with debate about whether Kelly belongs on the field, with team mates, in the community.  It seems like Pinball's idea that for him to change, he needs his boys around him.  Not sure that is the case, he needs to have some sort of time to actually be repentant and to relearn how to properly act around polite society.

Is Kelly giving the CFL some coverage in the US?  Seems like it. 

SI has him getting 6 games, https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/chad-kelly-argonauts-cfl-suspension

USA Today got the number of games right.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2024/05/07/cfl-suspends-chad-kelly-toronto-argonauts-gender-based-violence-policy/73603311007/

Yahoo SPort also ran a piece

https://sports.yahoo.com/ex-ole-miss-qb-and-denver-broncos-draft-pick-chad-kelly-suspended-at-least-nine-games-by-cfl-194253134.html



I had forgotten Kelly was "Mr. Irrelevant", the NFL's nickname for the last player taken in a draft.

Or the way he flamed out just as his opportunity with the Bronco's seemed to present itself, when he got drunk at a party and basically home invaded some strangers who fended him off with a vacuum cleaner.  Not sure which is more embarrassing, the fact he broke into someone's house drunk, or that he was fended off with a vacuum.

And the whole bit about Dinwiddie hearing about Kelly's concussion because his wife read about it on 3 down nation and the subsequent explanation that was the reason he didn't shake hands with the Als still doesn't ring true.  Was it ever confirmed he had a concussion, or was it just a tantrum?

They need to just cut him loose, like the Bronco's did, even though they were about to put him in after Keenum's 3-4 start.  Denver probably had worse issues at QB than the Argo's do, but they cut him...

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Yeah, not taking one snap is far to low a bar...  not sure how to word it best "best effort to complete the terms of the contract".  If he wants to come to camp and play himself off the team and let film of him sucking get distributed, so be it.

I am guessing no player in Durant's position will ever be offered up front money again... unless a team gets desperate.

On the other hand, the guy that ended up replacing Durant was.. Chris Streveler.   Had Durant shown up for camp and won the backup role, Bryan Bennett might have been our #3...

Pinball claims he didn't know these altercations were even taking place, don't know how that could be possible, but nonetheless he's the specific person that should have been on top of this situation and thrown a bucket of water on it early.  He may not like having to deal with this mess, but it's his job to manage his football team.

[theaardvark]

Pinball claims he didn't know these altercations were even taking place, don't know how that could be possible, but nonetheless he's the specific person that should have been on top of this situation and thrown a bucket of water on it early.  He may not like having to deal with this mess, but it's his job to manage his football team.

Yup, the buck stops there.

He has to identify why he didn't know, who was responsible for not reporting the issue to him, where the communication breakdown happened.  Was it someone who was trying to protect Kelly?  Or was it a misguided attempt to protect Pinball not realizing that it actually would hurt him?  Or was it simply someone who did not know about the leagues commitment to safe work places.

The CFL found enough evidence to suspend him 9 games. This is not a "he said / she said" anymore.

At minimum, the entire Argos staff should need a refresher course in safe workplace 101.  Until Kelly completes the league mandated courses successfully, Pinball should not allow him to be with the team.  Kelly has to prove he understands what he did was wrong, drop the ability to appeal the suspension, and apologize to the fans, the team, Pinball and most importantly, the victim.  As long as Kelly denies the issue and if he appeals, then he has no place on a CFL field.

[Blueforlife]

https://3downnation.com/2024/05/09/cfl-senior-content-manager-kristina-costabile-extremely-disappointed-chad-kelly-attended-argos-practice-while-suspended/

Pinball's legacy is now tarnished IMO

[Waffler]

I feel every day that Kelly is in camp should not count as part of his suspension. I didn't see Lawler once last year during his suspension just in comparison. To be clear, Kelly is suspended for the 2 preseason games. Training camp is some kind of loophole? The whole Argo franchise disgusts me over this. They seem to believe that only winning will bring back fans despite much evidence to the contrary and will bend or break any rule they want to.

[theaardvark]

https://3downnation.com/2024/05/09/cfl-senior-content-manager-kristina-costabile-extremely-disappointed-chad-kelly-attended-argos-practice-while-suspended/

Pinball's legacy is now tarnished IMO

Wow.  Just read this, and if he decides to appeal, he can fully practice with the team until an arbiter renders his judgement. Not sure who the arbiter will be, or how long that process takes.  Its an 87 page document we will never see, but shouldn't take an arbiter long to read and render judgement.

If Pinball wanted to start to rehabilitate his name, he would ask Kelly to prove he understands what he did was wrong, drop the ability to appeal the suspension, and apologize to the fans, the team, Pinball and most importantly, the victim.  If he does this, then he should also stay away from the team until he successfully completes his mandatory counselling sessions conducted by a gender-based violence expert and undergo assessments by an independent expert.

If Kelly decides not to do this, Pinball should immediately terminate his contract for cause, and sue him for the signing bonus back.

Ambrosie would also be justified in enforcing the suspension by not allowing any CFL team to offer or sign a contract with Kelly until the suspension is over, which could be forever if he does not complete his counselling and assessment.

Rip the freaking bandaid off, Pinball.  This situation is NOT going to get better, its just going to keep a focus on the Argos and Pinball protecting a scumbag with a good arm.

[theaardvark]

I feel every day that Kelly is in camp should not count as part of his suspension. I didn't see Lawler once last year during his suspension just in comparison. To be clear, Kelly is suspended for the 2 preseason games. Training camp is some kind of loophole? The whole Argo franchise disgusts me over this. They seem to believe that only winning will bring back fans despite much evidence to the contrary and will bend or break any rule they want to.

Lawler's suspension was assessed by the team, and then he went on the suspended list as he was ineligible to work in Canada until his Visa issues were cleared up.

Apples and Orangutans.

[Freebird]

Independent investigation corroborates three of six allegations against Kelly
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/dave-naylor-independent-investigation-corroborates-three-of-six-allegations-against-chad-kelly-1.2118960

Interesting that Naylor says the report was given to the Argos, but somehow Pinball says he never heard of the allegations until they were public.

[Blueforlife]

Independent investigation corroborates three of six allegations against Kelly
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/dave-naylor-independent-investigation-corroborates-three-of-six-allegations-against-chad-kelly-1.2118960

Interesting that Naylor says the report was given to the Argos, but somehow Pinball says he never heard of the allegations until they were public.

They knew and swept under the rug until the rug was pulled out, now egg on face

[Jesse]

Independent investigation corroborates three of six allegations against Kelly
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/dave-naylor-independent-investigation-corroborates-three-of-six-allegations-against-chad-kelly-1.2118960

Interesting that Naylor says the report was given to the Argos, but somehow Pinball says he never heard of the allegations until they were public.

The report is the independent one that the league had done after this was made public. It didn't exist until this all came out.

But the Argos 100% knew this was happening as it was happening.

[Blueforlife]

https://3downnation.com/2024/05/10/bombers-branding-director-rheanne-marcoux-speaks-out-against-pinball-clemons-randy-ambrosie-for-mishandling-predator-chad-kelly/

The league looks bad here, very bad