Argo QB, Chad Kelly sited in harassment/wrongful dismissal charges

[TBURGESS]

RE SMS: We signed a QB from the Riders who never played a down and we got no SMS relief from his bonus. That's what I'd expect would happen in this case too.

[theaardvark]

RE SMS: We signed a QB from the Riders who never played a down and we got no SMS relief from his bonus. That's what I'd expect would happen in this case too.

We made a huge mistake, which became a learning moment.  I bet that there is not a deal with a bonus that does not have a rider for "retirement" now. 

This is not that.  This is a combination of non-football related activities, the league stepping in with a suspension, and the question of whether the player violated his contract with his actions. 

Not the same as $DD4 at all.

[Jesse]

Never can't cover all the possibilities. The advance money is to create an advantage to both sides. More money in the pocket for the player because of the tax advantage. Less total contract cost to the team.

Collaros got $300K advance money. Fill in any other highly paid player. If he's injured day 1 in TC and lst for the season, why should something like this penalize the team?

I can't believe there shouldn't be some exceptions beyond negating a contract.

The Kelly instance may not be one where this should apply. However since I don't know all the details of what happened of what the organization knew, I'm trying to be impartial. It's an enormous hit that hurts the team more than the player.

Kelly gets $300K to not play.

Note: I have no issue with a player injured getting his entire contract on the 6 game IR. The player needs that protection. I see a suspension for other issues than injury may fall outside that concept. That would include whether the team or league suspended a player and the reason involved.

I don't understand why you feel there should be exemptions. It's not mandatory to hand out bonuses. When teams do it, it's usually to try and manipulate the cap to create an advantage, but it carries that element of risk. That is known beforehand.

[Blue In BC]

I don't understand why you feel there should be exemptions. It's not mandatory to hand out bonuses. When teams do it, it's usually to try and manipulate the cap to create an advantage, but it carries that element of risk. That is known beforehand.

The bonus is not a manipulation. It's a win win situation. Not having an exemption can be a penalty which is never the intent. Obviously an injury can always happen but the " salary " is SMS exempt on 6 game IR.

My point is that the total annual salary includes any pre payment. So in some cases it should be pro rated within the 18 game schedule. If that doesn't happen it can be a severe penalty to the team.

Note that I'm discussing both suspension issues and other issues that are non football related.

Off season training injury or auto accident for example. Not everything is predictable and IMO that should be taken into account for SMS relief.

[theaardvark]

I don't understand why you feel there should be exemptions. It's not mandatory to hand out bonuses. When teams do it, it's usually to try and manipulate the cap to create an advantage, but it carries that element of risk. That is known beforehand.

We have a severely restricted ability to pay the players.  Bonuses are definitely a cheat to better take advantage of $SMS cap space.  To bring better players into the league.

Yes, they are a crapshoot.  If a player is given a big bonus and ends up getting cut/benched for performance issues, the guy that gave that bonus deserves to have to eat it.

Signing a guy who then retires happened once, will not happen again.  Non issue going forward.

Guys who get injured during off-season training, that's partly the teams fault, they should be making sure the players are training properly. 

Guys who partake in conduct that leads to suspension / contract revoking, either criminal, civil or non-ethical is outside the football scope.  The league should have in place measures in the standard contract that not only revokes the future earnings of a player, but claws back the bonuses paid should the player be unable to complete the contract for other than performance issues.

[Jesse]

The bonus is not a manipulation. It's a win win situation. Not having an exemption can be a penalty which is never the intent. Obviously an injury can always happen but the " salary " is SMS exempt on 6 game IR.

My point is that the total annual salary includes any pre payment. So in some cases it should be pro rated within the 18 game schedule. If that doesn't happen it can be a severe penalty to the team.

Note that I'm discussing both suspension issues and other issues that are non football related.

Off season training injury or auto accident for example. Not everything is predictable and IMO that should be taken into account for SMS relief.

I understand what you're saying but I personally disagree there should ever be any exemptions. Don't hand out bonuses if you don't want the risk, imo.

And even if there were an injury exemption; there should 100% not be one for suspensions. Using the Argos as an example, we all knew who Chad Kelly was coming into the league. And a number of people raised their eye brows when he was given his bonus for this exact reason. The Argos shouldn't be given any relief because an expected problem became a problem.

[Jesse]

We have a severely restricted ability to pay the players.  Bonuses are definitely a cheat to better take advantage of $SMS cap space.  To bring better players into the league.

Yes, they are a crapshoot.  If a player is given a big bonus and ends up getting cut/benched for performance issues, the guy that gave that bonus deserves to have to eat it.

Signing a guy who then retires happened once, will not happen again.  Non issue going forward.

Guys who get injured during off-season training, that's partly the teams fault, they should be making sure the players are training properly. 

Guys who partake in conduct that leads to suspension / contract revoking, either criminal, civil or non-ethical is outside the football scope.  The league should have in place measures in the standard contract that not only revokes the future earnings of a player, but claws back the bonuses paid should the player be unable to complete the contract for other than performance issues.

I agree with everything but clawing back the money. Once you've paid that out, it's gone.

I also don't think off season injuries are in any way the fault of the team, lol.

[theaardvark]

I agree with everything but clawing back the money. Once you've paid that out, it's gone.

I also don't think off season injuries are in any way the fault of the team, lol.

I guess my thought on clawing back SMS$ for a player unable to complete his contract for non-football related issues is that the team giving the bonus does not gain any on field advantage from spending he money, and can pay a hefty cost on field in not having that $SMS available.

The team having to pay out the $$$ should be penalty enough.  Hamstringing the roster by losing the cap hit doesn't help anyone, including the league, because that team is less competitive.

This would only apply to the Argos if they sever ties altogether with Kelly.  If they hope to have him back this year, then they are gaining from that $SMS spend, and do not deserve one red cent in clawing back the bonus or $SMS relief.
 

[gobombersgo]

Pinball after Argos practice:

[blue_gold_84]

Very surprised to hear the league permitted him to be present at practice.

EDIT: not surprised by Clemons' non-answers but I'm pretty sure that was intentional.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Pinball after Argos practice:

Can't imagine the Argos handling this situation any worse, total passive response with no proactive steps taken anywhere along the line to avert disaster.  It's as if nobody in the organizations cares whether the Argos function well or or not, on and off the field. Season ticket holders have reason to revolt and if Kelly has an opportunity to earn a decent living anywhere else in football, he may refuse to comply and just walk away from the league for good.

[TecnoGenius]

My point is that the total annual salary includes any pre payment. So in some cases it should be pro rated within the 18 game schedule. If that doesn't happen it can be a severe penalty to the team.

But why pick this one Kelly incident to bring up this novel idea?  It seems ridiculous that people are advocating extreme changes to SMS rules only now in light of the Kelly Situation(tm).

No one advocated for these changes when Durant shafted us, no one advocated for these changes when an abnormal number of 2022 TC players got mysterious achilles, no one advocated for these changes when all those players got DUIs, no one advocated for these changes when Lawler arguably shafted us on signing bonus value then missing 1/3 to 1/2 a season...

Yes, people moaned and groaned (especially the Durant issue) about the SMS shafting, but no one started saying the CFL should change the SMS rules just for us!

It really seems like it's all about Kelly being a superstar and the amount being so large ($300k).  But any SMS rules shouldn't depend on how good the player is, nor on how much some GM agreed to put out in advance!  They have to be fair and consistent across the board.  And any change should be well thought out, not some knee-jerk exception.

[TecnoGenius]

Not the same as $DD4 at all.

Kelly: douche shafted the team that paid him a bonus by being a general douche.
Durant: douche shafted the team that paid him a bonus by being a general douche.

Looks the same to me.

[TecnoGenius]

Injuries are part of football.  Bad behaviour is not.

Uh, have you read the CFL news this last decade?  Every single season there is some instance of "bad behavior".  In fact, last year it was us! (Lawler)

[TecnoGenius]

We've seen many players get injured in early TC and lost for the season ( achilles for example ). Some of those players had large signing bonus's involved. I don't see why the team should be penalized because money was paid early.

Whether it's $600K or $100K, it should be calculated in a pro rated basis.

And in every single case those achilles players bonuses hamstrung the teams' SMS.

If we're advocating for a whole new system, we should start a new thread and argue it without the Kelly Incident being the focal point.  And any change Ambrosie may make should exclude the Kelly Incident too.

I'm totally in favor of TOR getting shafted by this debacle.  Why should they be the ones who get the first special treatment?