CFL and Riders mourn the loss of Jayden Dalke

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

If he wasn't intoxicated, how do you explain him stealing gas right before the incident and driving on the wrong side of the highway?

Everything is kind of pointing in one direction on this one.

No real explanation, but the realm of possibilities could include him being distracted by his phone and forgetting to pay for the gas rather than stealing it, I doubt he would want to face the consequences of being embarrassed by the entire province of Sask. for stealing gas as a member of the Riders.

Upon realizing his error he performed a u-turn and doubled back in the right hand lane not realizing it was a divided highway, apparently colliding with the other vehicle on the crest of a hill which is always a danger point. He was already well South of Lumsden so there had to be a reason he was headed North back towards town and there are some locations in Sask. where 4 lanes split and spread apart 1/2 a km or more, if at a distance a person may not see or comprehend the other 2 lanes are part of the same road.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

If he wasn't intoxicated, how do you explain him stealing gas right before the incident and driving on the wrong side of the highway?

Everything is kind of pointing in one direction on this one.

Question, have you ever remained drunk for more than 8 hours at a time?

[Tecno]

Question, have you ever remained drunk for more than 8 hours at a time?

I don't drink at all, but I do know some people who remain drunk for 24 hours at a time!  I'm not even kidding.

[Tecno]

If he wasn't intoxicated, how do you explain him stealing gas right before the incident and driving on the wrong side of the highway?

Everything is kind of pointing in one direction on this one.

This is true, but the police report said booze & mj in the vehicle.  It is entirely conceivable they were both in the trunk, which is 100% legal.  Nothing yet proves he was intoxicated.

It's the stolen gas & wrong-way that hint at intoxicated -- because even if you think it's rural SSK and 0 people are out there, I'm thinking you don't do that.  And even if you did, when you saw another guy approaching, you wouldn't try to re-reverse or drive off into a ditch to make sure you weren't hit??

[Tecno]

An anonymous reporting system could save someone.  Yes, it could be used for SWATing and fake reports, but those would have to be dealt with as well.  I'd rather have to investigate 10 fake reports to identify one soul in need.

My rat point still stands.  Anonymous has nothing to do with it, and wouldn't help.  They don't rat because they are a band of brothers, not because they are pretending to be a band of brothers but would rat anonymously.  The brotherhood is real.  The "hurts the team" point also doesn't change.  You won't rat out your highest value players, for example, even if you were a rare one who would rat out a STer.

[Tecno]

No, can't confine a person to your home but if they leave drunk and drive despite your best efforts to prevent that, then you have an obligation to call the police and report them for impaired driving.

And how many times have you done that?  Ya, never.  You might say you'd do it.  But you wouldn't if it was a close friend.  Because then that person would no longer be your friend as they serve out a 1-year license suspension.  Drunks do not ever ponder life and say "thanks for saving my life buddy" -- at least not until they go through a year of successful rehab.

Ya, ok, maybe if 50 people were at your house you'd call in on a nobody who your wife's work friend's cousin's boyfriend brought.  But not a lifelong friend.

Now, if you try VERY HARD (verbally) to stop them, with witnesses, you've done your duty and you would almost certainly avoid any potential liability.

[Tecno]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you can take away someone's keys to keep them from drunk driving without fear of prosecution.

Maybe de facto, but not de jure.  Look it up.  Ask google or something.  If said key-taking requires physical force (aka "assault" or "battery") and/or confinement (which is instantly "kidnapping" the moment you hold your door closed to them BTW) then you are committing a crime, and they can call the cops and have you arrested.  Doesn't matter if they are drunk.

Now, would a lot of cops look away a bit and take your side?  Maybe, maybe not.  By law they aren't supposed to.  And it's not in any way against the law for a drunk to hold their keys and walk through your door.  The crime starts to materialize when they are approaching their vehicle with the intent to drive.

(And the reason this is so is because say a gf of a sleezebag is drunk, has her keys in her purse, is getting abused and tries to walk out the door to get help from the next door neighbour, with no intention of driving.  If it was legal to stop a drunk from leaving, just because they were holding keys, then every abuser could confine ("kidnap") anyone they want and the abused would have zero recourse.)

I've personally fought a drunk for their keys before, a zillion years ago.  Actual large amounts of strength doing wrestling type stuff trying to pry keys away, and holding doors closed.  I could have gotten in big trouble for that.  But I did it anyway as they were so drunk they wouldn't have even made it down my street.  But should they have not liked it, and not passed out shortly thereafter, they could have called the cops.  And it took maybe 66% of my strength to do it.  I'm not overly weak.  A 5'5" person instead of my 6'1, or weaker person may have lost that fight AND committed a crime.  I wouldn't expect my wife to fight someone, for instance.  If you think "force their keys away" is a simple "reach out and take it", you clearly have never been in this situation.

It's a really, really crappy situation and I hope no one ever goes through it, because your choices are fighting them and maybe getting in trouble, calling the cops and getting them arrested as they drive away and ruin their life, or letting them go and crash or die.  These are horrible choices.  What I would recommend to people is to either not hang out with drunks (sometimes difficult!), or to make sure every bad drunk comes over with their spouse/SO and that spouse is a DD or non-drinker.  That's basically my rule now, because then there's never any issue.

P.S. The person I stopped is still a super close friend.

[Jesse]

Let the authorities do their work since there's a lot of details that need to be sorted out. They don't need internet sleuths muddling the truth.

Yup. I regret commenting at all.

[blue_gold_84]

Maybe time to lock this thread...?

[Jesse]

Maybe time to lock this thread...?

I would agree with that.

[Horseman]

And how many times have you done that?  Ya, never.  You might say you'd do it.  But you wouldn't if it was a close friend.  Because then that person would no longer be your friend as they serve out a 1-year license suspension.  Drunks do not ever ponder life and say "thanks for saving my life buddy" -- at least not until they go through a year of successful rehab.

Ya, ok, maybe if 50 people were at your house you'd call in on a nobody who your wife's work friend's cousin's boyfriend brought.  But not a lifelong friend.

Now, if you try VERY HARD (verbally) to stop them, with witnesses, you've done your duty and you would almost certainly avoid any potential liability.

Yes, I would do it if I was not able to stop them from driving as I was in law enforcement for 28 years. How many dead bodies did you have to pull out of tangled vehicle collisions? How many body parts did you have to pick up off the highway, How much brain matter did you have to clean up as best you could? how many people have you had to go to their homes to tell them their loved one will not be coming home? So having had to do all that, YES, I would report a friend/guest for impaired driving. I would even physically stop someone from getting behind the wheel drunk as not only are you potentially saving that friends life but also an innocent person like the fellow Dalke killed or a family like I had to investigate, mother, father, two kids and the mother was pregnant. So, dealing with the carnage is enough to make me act to prevent someone from driving impaired and so it should for you **** the friendship if the person hates you after they weren't your friend to begin with, you can be comfortable knowing you did the right thing.

[Horseman]

Maybe de facto, but not de jure.  Look it up.  Ask google or something.  If said key-taking requires physical force (aka "assault" or "battery") and/or confinement (which is instantly "kidnapping" the moment you hold your door closed to them BTW) then you are committing a crime, and they can call the cops and have you arrested.  Doesn't matter if they are drunk.

They can call the police, but, once the entire circumstances are detailed and it is understood what happened, there is not a prosecutor who would prosecute you for attempting to stop a crime and or death occurring. In fact I as a former police officer would not even have laid an information (charge) against you.

[theaardvark]

Was wondering how SSK would handle the game "moment of silence" that would be pretty mandatory. 

They first honoured the victim, with quite an elaborate presentation, naming all his relatives, before getting to Dalke... its hard to ignore the impact he has had on the team, and even though his final act was terrible and completely avoidable, can it invalidate all that came before?  Was it a one time thing?  If we find out in the investigation this is not the first incident, or if he'd been given a pass on earlier infractions due to him being a Rider, then were in a different ballpark.

But as the information stands today, about as best a handling of it as you could, well done Riders. 

[Pigskin]

Let the authorities do their work since there's a lot of details that need to be sorted out. They don't need internet sleuths muddling the truth.

Very true.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

This is true, but the police report said booze & mj in the vehicle.  It is entirely conceivable they were both in the trunk, which is 100% legal.  Nothing yet proves he was intoxicated.

It's the stolen gas & wrong-way that hint at intoxicated -- because even if you think it's rural SSK and 0 people are out there, I'm thinking you don't do that.  And even if you did, when you saw another guy approaching, you wouldn't try to re-reverse or drive off into a ditch to make sure you weren't hit??

No trunk in a SUV or hatchback, as long as the booze hasn't been opened it shouldn't be a problem.