CFL and Riders mourn the loss of Jayden Dalke

[TBURGESS]

How do you explain the fact that DUI rates historically are falling?

"DUI rates are falling primarily due to the widespread availability of rideshare services, stricter traffic laws, and a cultural shift toward safer social drinking."

You explained it in the very next sentance. 

The younger generation would rather Uber than have their own car which helps a ton too. 

Your definition of the word education as an "ad" is really shortchanging the definition, imo.

I'm speaking of education in a broader sense and people obviously do learn and grow, even though learned behaviours are tough to break. I don't really put overcoming a lifelong addiction like obesity and smoking in the same conversation as learning to call a cab when you've been drinking.

I was thinking specifically of MADD ads. 

Education in schools has been happening for 50ish years too. It obviously didn't help in this situation. 

[Sir Blue and Gold]

You explained it in the very next sentance.

The younger generation would rather Uber than have their own car which helps a ton too.
I was thinking specifically of MADD ads.

Education in schools has been happening for 50ish years too. It obviously didn't help in this situation.

The thing people sometimes forget with public awareness campaigns or education in general is it isn't a zero sum game. There's a statistical percentage of the population that will never conform or change the behavior that you're trying to affect. Marketers usually try to identify those groups and not target them specifically if they can get gains elsewhere. In my experience, and this is the unfortunate part for drunk driving, that group is typically younger adult males 18-24. It's also important to remember you don't stay that age forever and those same people are statistically more likely to change as they age.

It doesn't mean that the entire premise doesn't work or is invalid or somehow not worth the effort.

We should continue to teach on the dangers of drunk driving. That is as important a message today as it was 50 years ago and the reason you don't hear or recognize when it works is because no one writes an article about a 21 year old guy who calls a friend, walks home or finds a ride. That absolutely does happen though, every day and education and awareness of actions and consequences are a part of the puzzle even if they aren't a silver bullet solution in a vacuum.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

You explained it in the very next sentance.

The younger generation would rather Uber than have their own car which helps a ton too.
I was thinking specifically of MADD ads.

Education in schools has been happening for 50ish years too. It obviously didn't help in this situation.

A lot of this activity goes down in remote rural areas where no Uber or taxi service exists and there's an almost invisible police presence.  Thus young men take the chance they'll get away with drinking and driving which becomes the accepted norm, and for the most part they do.

Rural Manitoba socials and bush parties were a breeding ground for this behaviour and I'd be surprised it's changed very much. The one benefit of higher liquor prices is it forces more people to buy their own and drink at home.

[Tecno]

Same can be said for someone having a house party where they let their guest leave intoxicated and drive impaired. They open themselves up to a civil lawsuit.

Never heard of that before, especially in "we don't really sue people" (or should that be "courts award you $50 instead of $25M like the USA") Canada.

You are not legally allowed to confine anyone (even drunk) to your home, nor forcibly take the keys from them if they don't want to give them up.  Not even your spouse!  Makes a situation where you need to become very difficult, or even a legal liability.

[Tecno]

Bigger penalties don't change people's behavior. Neither does advertising. Never have. Never will.

Drunks always believe they are the best drivers and will be 100% fine and not get in accidents or weave in a way that will gets police attention.  They literally don't see anything wrong nor any risk of anything at all.  "I'm not like those other drunk drivers, I'm better."  I've personally seen this a lot.

The thing that does work in a football environment is peer pressure.  Football is all about being great for your teammates.  Peer pressure is massive... just think about WFC's FIFO.  It's one big peer pressure system.

That's why I suggested there has to be something at the team level, and the peer level.  The team needs to inform them about the massive team-hurting penalties for DUI, and the players themselves have to enforce it.  It would work the same was as if a player showed up to the game after a bye 10lb heavier (except hoggies!) and tired/hungover.  The whole team needs to come down hard on them, "not cool dude!".

In that sense, take my $5k on-SMS team fine idea and make it $50k on-SMS.  That would seriously hurt a team and their GC ambitions.  Make it so unacceptable and unthinkable to screw your team over so much.  How about your 1RDP is forfeit, too.

That would have a knock-on effect of making teams vet players more strictly, and/or assign babysitters.  Would Kenny get his big $$, for example?  He could flub up and cost your team dearly.

[Tecno]

The CFLPA should institute a tip line for team mates to report suspicious behaviour, so that the PA can reach out to potential problems before they happen, and offer support to prevent this from happening again.

Useless.  They would never report a teammate, even if he drives drunk every single night.  For the same reason my "peer pressure" idea would work, this idea wouldn't: because of the "band of brothers" mentality.  Rule #1 is you don't rat on your brother, even if it would have saved Dalke's life.

You really think anyone would rat on Kenny, or Davis Alexander, or your best hoggie?  That could mean your team loses the next X games.  No one is doing that.

So the only way someone would rat is if there is a similar team-level benefit to doing so.  And that means losing Kenny or whoever for 6 games has to be LESS painful (by a large margin) than the punishment for getting caught.  That might be hard to do, because the rat will also take into account the probability of getting caught is probably low.

I'm not sure you could equalize that value.  And if you give the team/player actual perks for rats, teams may arrange fake rattings.  You wanted to cut a player?  Have one of your players falsely report him for DUI risk.  Boom: team/player gets a perk for losing a player they already wanted to anyhow.

[Tecno]

Rules and penalties already exist and simply don't work. MADD has been fighting this fight for 50+ years. Everyone knows it's wrong to drink/drug and drive. It still happens every weekend.

No, I've found most people have no idea it's dangerous to toke and drive.  Talk to any dedicated stoner and they instantly trot out the "stoners drive slower and are safer" crap and start whining about drinkers -- like it's some big cage match and you have to pick a side, when both shouldn't be driving.

They just laugh at the ads, which are actually pretty lame and minimize the real harm/risk -- some dude ordering the wrong stuff at the drive thru?  Come on...

It may be a Canada-wide awakening if it turns out Dalke was high but not drunk...

[Tecno]

When I was in my late teens I drove home from parties drunk numerous times, as did friends. My sister lost 3 friends in her late teens due to an MVA where one of her friends was driving drunk.

DUIs being less fatal is also a function of cars being miles safer than the 60's too.  It often takes pathologically bad accidents like Dalke's head-on to cause a death these days.  Doesn't excuse it in any manner, but it could skew the stats compared to the olden days.

[Jesse]

Never heard of that before, especially in "we don't really sue people" (or should that be "courts award you $50 instead of $25M like the USA") Canada.

You are not legally allowed to confine anyone (even drunk) to your home, nor forcibly take the keys from them if they don't want to give them up.  Not even your spouse!  Makes a situation where you need to become very difficult, or even a legal liability.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you can take away someone's keys to keep them from drunk driving without fear of prosecution.

[Horseman]

Never heard of that before, especially in "we don't really sue people" (or should that be "courts award you $50 instead of $25M like the USA") Canada.

You are not legally allowed to confine anyone (even drunk) to your home, nor forcibly take the keys from them if they don't want to give them up.  Not even your spouse!  Makes a situation where you need to become very difficult, or even a legal liability.

No, can't confine a person to your home but if they leave drunk and drive despite your best efforts to prevent that, then you have an obligation to call the police and report them for impaired driving. Remember "friends don't let friends drive drunk", how about when the people arrive at the house party you have them throw their car keys into a container and only get them back if they are sober at the end of the party. Otherwise they stay over or get an Uber, Taxi or have someone pick them up. DO you want to expose yourself to a potential civil lawsuit from the relatives of person your guest killed. Not me.

[theaardvark]

Useless.  They would never report a teammate, even if he drives drunk every single night.  For the same reason my "peer pressure" idea would work, this idea wouldn't: because of the "band of brothers" mentality.  Rule #1 is you don't rat on your brother, even if it would have saved Dalke's life.

You really think anyone would rat on Kenny, or Davis Alexander, or your best hoggie?  That could mean your team loses the next X games.  No one is doing that.

So the only way someone would rat is if there is a similar team-level benefit to doing so.  And that means losing Kenny or whoever for 6 games has to be LESS painful (by a large margin) than the punishment for getting caught.  That might be hard to do, because the rat will also take into account the probability of getting caught is probably low.

I'm not sure you could equalize that value.  And if you give the team/player actual perks for rats, teams may arrange fake rattings.  You wanted to cut a player?  Have one of your players falsely report him for DUI risk.  Boom: team/player gets a perk for losing a player they already wanted to anyhow.

An anonymous reporting system could save someone.  Yes, it could be used for SWATing and fake reports, but those would have to be dealt with as well.  I'd rather have to investigate 10 fake reports to identify one soul in need. 

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you can take away someone's keys to keep them from drunk driving without fear of prosecution.

How about a beating from a football player?

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

An anonymous reporting system could save someone.  Yes, it could be used for SWATing and fake reports, but those would have to be dealt with as well.  I'd rather have to investigate 10 fake reports to identify one soul in need. 

I don't know what details have been confirmed but if he was coming back from Leduc he was probably partying with friends or family so doubtful any of his teammates knew what he was up to.

Problem is Leduc to Lumsden is at least 7.5 hours, doubtful he takes on a drive that long drunk or high without having to stop to rest, as driving long distance can be exhausting even when sober.  Even if they found drugs and alcohol in his vehicle, kind of doubt he was intoxicated by the time of the accident unless he was topping up along the way.

[Jesse]

I don't know what details have been confirmed but if he was coming back from Leduc he was probably partying with friends or family so doubtful any of his teammates knew what he was up to.

Problem is Leduc to Lumsden is at least 7.5 hours, doubtful he takes on a drive that long drunk or high without having to stop to rest, as driving long distance can be exhausting even when sober.  Even if they found drugs and alcohol in his vehicle, kind of doubt he was intoxicated by the time of the accident unless he was topping up along the way.

If he wasn't intoxicated, how do you explain him stealing gas right before the incident and driving on the wrong side of the highway?

Everything is kind of pointing in one direction on this one.

[bomberjunkie]

Let the authorities do their work since there's a lot of details that need to be sorted out. They don't need internet sleuths muddling the truth.