Was the 4 IMP OL better?

[Tecno]

Tackle takes his man, RB takes the next man closest to the inside of the line. QB has to know there is an unblocked man and get the ball out before taking the hit. The hit on Collaros was on Collaros.

It's called the "blind side" for a reason.  He's counting on protection.  Everyone knows the play.  Zach was fixated on the reads on the other side.  He's not losing focus to watch the blind side for an hour just to see if someone blitzes at the last second.

Since Brady knows the play too, he should know Zach will be focused away, and be doubly sure the blind side doesn't cream him.

This isn't a Zach thing because many QBs take big whacks from the blind side.  Many examples this season.  They never know the hit is coming.  Are they all bad QBs?

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

It's called the "blind side" for a reason.  He's counting on protection.  Everyone knows the play.  Zach was fixated on the reads on the other side.  He's not losing focus to watch the blind side for an hour just to see if someone blitzes at the last second.

Since Brady knows the play too, he should know Zach will be focused away, and be doubly sure the blind side doesn't cream him.

This isn't a Zach thing because many QBs take big whacks from the blind side.  Many examples this season.  They never know the hit is coming.  Are they all bad QBs?

Why do you continue to blame Brady when the block was the responsibility of Daniels?  What do you see Brady doing on that play?  It's not like he snuck out of the backfield and ignored his block on the right side.

[TBURGESS]

It's called the "blind side" for a reason.  He's counting on protection.  Everyone knows the play.  Zach was fixated on the reads on the other side.  He's not losing focus to watch the blind side for an hour just to see if someone blitzes at the last second.

Since Brady knows the play too, he should know Zach will be focused away, and be doubly sure the blind side doesn't cream him.

This isn't a Zach thing because many QBs take big whacks from the blind side.  Many examples this season.  They never know the hit is coming.  Are they all bad QBs?

It's QB's fault when the defence overloads 1 side and there aren't enough blockers to pick all of them up. It's the blockers fault if there are the same number of defensive players coming as there are blockers. 

[Tecno]

It's QB's fault when the defence overloads 1 side and there aren't enough blockers to pick all of them up. It's the blockers fault if there are the same number of defensive players coming as there are blockers.

3 showed/came on right side.  2 showed / 3 came on left side.  It's that 3rd (outermost) that got Zach.

So according to your rules, that's on the blockers.  And that's what I've been saying since the GDT.

Well, I guess it depends on if you consider Daniels a blocker or a SB.  He was in the slot and doing the waggle and went out into the flat for a quick pass target.  But he was/is probably supposed to switch to blocking if heat is coming.

[Tecno]

Why do you continue to blame Brady when the block was the responsibility of Daniels?  What do you see Brady doing on that play?  It's not like he snuck out of the backfield and ignored his block on the right side.

I would blame Brady first/more for the simple fact that he's the experienced uber-vet, and higher paid player.  Daniels knows nothing (yet) because he's raw and green and learning.

Also, Brady was already on that blitz side.  If he just stays in place (where he can reach the attacker faster anyhow) he makes that block.  Even if he goes to the other side, he may be too late to help someone free off the edge, and that's basically what ended up happening.  He would have to know this free WILL blitzer would be a straight sprint to the QB!

If they were both equally as vet a player?  Ya, we'd have to know the scheme to know for sure who to blame.  Also, it's probably correct to blame both guys, to some extent.

My #1 main point, to counter the GDT, is this is NOT Big Stan's fault, nor the fault of the 4IMP OL experiment.

[TBURGESS]

3 showed/came on right side.  2 showed / 3 came on left side.  It's that 3rd (outermost) that got Zach.

So according to your rules, that's on the blockers.  And that's what I've been saying since the GDT.

Well, I guess it depends on if you consider Daniels a blocker or a SB.  He was in the slot and doing the waggle and went out into the flat for a quick pass target.  But he was/is probably supposed to switch to blocking if heat is coming.

Tackle takes the first one, rb takes the 2nd one. The 3rd is free. IIRC Daniels was outside of the 3rd guy meaning he had no blocking responsibility. 

[CrazyCanuck89]

Tackle takes the first one, rb takes the 2nd one. The 3rd is free. IIRC Daniels was outside of the 3rd guy meaning he had no blocking responsibility.

It's just easy for fans to blame the rookie.

[Tecno]

Tackle takes the first one, rb takes the 2nd one. The 3rd is free. IIRC Daniels was outside of the 3rd guy meaning he had no blocking responsibility.

Except Brady has a both-sides job.  He's not limited to playing the side he's on.  And the opposite side was also overloaded.  So Brady wasn't totally wrong -- he just judged "what's the greater/faster threat" incorrectly.

So it's pretty complicated.  Comes down to vision, decision and comms.

[Tecno]

Well, another game... this time 3 IMP OL was probably just as good in pass-pro as the 4 IMP.  But I noticed a huge drop-off in run block.  I don't know how Brady's avg compares, but he was getting a ton of stuffed-for-2 or 3.  But he also got some decent 7's and 10's.

Most disconcerting is we weren't able to just Brady-ball the end like we did in HAM.  We had to risk some 15Y passes on 2nd.  Not ideal, but it worked out.

Verdict: Mazzcua as a rookie might be better run block than psuedo-vet Wallace.  But the difference might not be enough to hamstring the ratio.

[Tecno]

WPG@TOR@WPG 

2Q7:30 Dru takes a sack on a cover-0 8-man blitz.  Like the HAM blitz that took out Zach, they don't start sneaking up until the QB is into his cadence.

BUT, we can see the O has learned from letting Zach get hosed.  Watch this one carefully, it's really neat to see this stuff adjusted in only a few days.

In this one, Demski is in the slot that Daniels was in last time (pure fluke, or Daniels demoted a bit??).  And Demski is paying more attention to Brady than Daniels did (started the waggle later too?).

So this time Brady taps his hip more, and actually points sternly at the oncoming blitzer that Demski is supposed to pick up.  He also seems to wait to ensure Demskit saw him and was reacting.  Only then does Brady crossover to stop the opposite-side blitzer.

OK, so that's progress, right?

But this time the opposite side guy doesn't get held up, because the more-inside pass-rushers are playing tighter to the nose.  That was something HAM didn't do -- their entire side played wide and 2 of our OL went wide with them and successfully blocked 3.

The problem now is Brady's extra care directing Demski caused him to be late on the opposite side.  That fraction of a second was the difference between making a solid block and whiffing -- barely redirecting the rusher.

The saving grace here is Brady forced the guy deeper than he wanted, and his tackle was on his lower leg, and didn't harm Dru at all.  (In fact, I'll put a note about that separately in the GDT...)

[TBURGESS]

Except Brady has a both-sides job.  He's not limited to playing the side he's on.  And the opposite side was also overloaded.  So Brady wasn't totally wrong -- he just judged "what's the greater/faster threat" incorrectly.

So it's pretty complicated.  Comes down to vision, decision and comms.

They showed it again during the game. Brady took the other side, leaving the blind side blitzer with no one to block him. That makes him the QB's responsibility to account for the extra man. 

[Tecno]

They showed it again during the game. Brady took the other side, leaving the blind side blitzer with no one to block him. That makes him the QB's responsibility to account for the extra man.

I'm not sure about that.  Surely we would have directed everyone involved to avoid another QB-crippling incident.  Yet Dru isn't looking around at anything after he starts the wagglers.  At all.  Just like Zach.

I bet the QB is told to worry only about their reads and leave all the protection to the blockers, who by design are supposed to equal the number of rushers.  In a perfect world that would be fine.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Well, another game... this time 3 IMP OL was probably just as good in pass-pro as the 4 IMP.  But I noticed a huge drop-off in run block.  I don't know how Brady's avg compares, but he was getting a ton of stuffed-for-2 or 3.  But he also got some decent 7's and 10's.

Most disconcerting is we weren't able to just Brady-ball the end like we did in HAM.  We had to risk some 15Y passes on 2nd.  Not ideal, but it worked out.

Verdict: Mazzcua as a rookie might be better run block than psuedo-vet Wallace.  But the difference might not be enough to hamstring the ratio.

I don't think Eli got many reps last night vs. Daniels, didn't notice him out there till the victory formation.

[Tecno]

I don't think Eli got many reps last night vs. Daniels, didn't notice him out there till the victory formation.

I saw Eli a few times.  Yes, Daniels a lot more.  Mafia wasn't wrong, he's a beast.  And he knows how to manhandle D's.  He's also good at doing it without drawing a holding flag.

[kkc60]

I like Daniels. Mazzccua over Wallace though. Such a frustrating player, biggest guy on the field but plays the smallest.

This offseason will be very interesting, realistically we could need minimum 3 new OL (at least two canadian). If the choice now is Mazzccua or Hazen, I take Mazzccua. But ideally it should be Singer over both in a rotational role