Younger's defense

[Blueforlife]

The discourse about safety is a little strange. Back in the day it was a great place to hide a mid-tier Canadian. But we see how much the game changes when we have a lumber-layer there like Loffler and BA.

I like Kramdi as a SAM but I don't think we should be overthinking this - if we are talking about needing improvements at S then to me this is an admission that we are lost on the whole defense (which I guess is the greater discussion in this thread). We have a bunch of DBs and should easily be able to fill a safety in there who should - in a worst case - not get in the way and be a net-negative. In a perfect world, they can be valuable in QBing the secondary out of the huddle, cover their man/zone to prevent the explosion play, and lay some crushing hits that will make QBs think twice about throwing down the middle.

Here's a weird suggestion just for fun - how do we think Griffin would do there? He's probably more valuable as an LB but I bet the guy would blanket the whole field and could do some damage to slotbacks who dare enter his zone!

I don't want Griffin at S full stop

Love him at LB

Safety is a key position imo

[Pete]

Statistically Griffin is one of their better defensive players and I believe the off-season plan was to provide him with a starting job at SAM so he could play every down and not rotate out.  Kramdi is not currently playing the traditional Safety role, sometimes he's deep center but other times he's lined up in the box or even on the line of scrimmage as a pass rusher. I guess this creates confusion, but for who's benefit?  They did not do this with Cam Allen last season, he played the traditional deep Safety role and they kept his job simple, he rarely got involved in run stopping.  It's early in the season but never too early to get back to the basics of sound positional play, running to the ball and good tackling, the athleticism is already in house.

completely agree, last two games it looked like the defensive halfbacks were forced into man to man cause of no support deep. We need our lb to make the run tackles, and our safety to stabilize the secondary

[CrazyCanuck89]

Why haven't we developed the guy we drafted ahead of Findlay, Jaylen Smith as a safety. very good speed, physical and can tackle. He has all the tools to be an impact national

It's better to have him at SLB.  Big, fast, good in coverage.

[Tecno]

Here's a weird suggestion just for fun - how do we think Griffin would do there? He's probably more valuable as an LB but I bet the guy would blanket the whole field and could do some damage to slotbacks who dare enter his zone!

Griffin is bigger and that beef is far more valuable at SAM.  FS needs to be faster & more of a rover.  Kramdi's body type is actually perfect for FS, even though he doesn't really have an abundance of "faster".  We've been getting gashed with strong-side runs for over a season now, and Griffin in theory should be better at solving that.

If you want to see what a FS should be doing, look no further than that challenged INT in our HAM game.  Was it Katsitonis who got that?  Probably ran all the way from the middle for that INT.  Now THAT'S what we need out of a FS.

I don't see that kind of hustle by any of our D, to be frank.  Well, maybe Holm & Jones.  We aren't taking these games seriously like our opponents are.  Eye on the prize.  The top teams are putting in playoff energy performance.  We're playing like it's the PS.  It's a morale/attitude/leadership issue, and not easy to fix.

[Tecno]

You actually think its not JY running the D? Its his show.

Yes, I don't think JY is running things like it appears on paper.  I have thought that since the moment JY was given the job that Hall was the man behind the curtain, and have said so here ever since.

I think scheme is >50% Hall's creation.  Operations is mostly Younger.  Hall's health, wanting to keep Younger, and the limitations of the coaches cap are the "why".  If you want to yell at Younger, yell at Hall too.  If you want to fire Younger, you're probably going to have to fire Hall too.

[Tecno]

I don't think Nichols has lost his ability. He may have lost a bit of a step. We moved Alexander from DHB to safety. Same skill sets, High football IQ, communication skills and good tackler.

Nichols can't move to FS if he's slower now, because what we need at FS is precisely the opposite: speed.  Add into that that Nichols would get killed on run stop.  He's already a weak tackler, especially against beef.

I actually think Kramdi is the near perfect choice as he's just beefy enough to put hits on guys and make punishing tackles, yet still fast enough to rove.  The lankier guys like Loffler & Dequoy -- they can't take more than a few years of that body abuse before they break.  I also think Kramdi has a bit (just a bit!) of that Loffler craziness, which really helps at FS.

And I'm not sure why Kramdi/FS is the main talking point here now, because vs HAM I didn't see that as a problem at all.  It was Moxey/Nichols getting picked on and losing that was the big problem.  The worst you can say about Kramdi is he wasn't in the picture helping out very often, but that may be more a function of Bo knowing how to avoid our FS.

[Tecno]

I would have liked to see Cam Allen come back on when Woodsbey was injured. Go back to what was working last year.

The D in the ESF was "working"??

[Tecno]

This defense also is not the same defense of years past. As for the scheme, that's just not true. The scheme changed when Hall was swapped for Younger. Sure, some aspects did not but more or less it's a different defense.

To me I see the same "Smoke & Mirrors" Hall D.  Remember, he wrote an actual book on it.  The over-complication and extreme "disguises" has literally been a Hall trademark since day 1.

And in any event, Younger is a disciple of Hall -- maybe so much so that they are interchangeable now.

[Tecno]

that was the same problem last year. Yes, our offense sucked mightily, but dang, our defense couldn't stop the run last year and we opted to go with Wilson as our MLB??, while Sankey and Awe were free agents, man that was just plain dumb.

Sankey is highly sought after and buckets of $.  Someone mentioned $50k more for last season, but I bet this season he's more like $100k more than Jones or Wilson.  No way Sankey $ was possible for us after splurging on Ceresna.

Teams salivate over getting Sankey.  No one is interested in our LBers, except as backups or for hard-up teams.

[Tecno]

He'd still have to wait his turn for an injury to occur, Moxey signed for 2 years, so they won't be quick to give up on him.

If Moxey is the beaten rented mule meme in the next few games, you can bet Mafia will consider parking or cutting him.  Signing bonus be darned.  There is precedent with splashy FAs that let us down.  Chris Matthews, Bowman...

Moxey is at the tail end of his career and may not be fast enough anymore, kind of like Nichols.  And Houston/Taylor last couple of seasons.  DB is very much a young guy's position.

[Jesse]

The D in the ESF was "working"??

Do we just get to pick and chose single games as exemplars for the whole season?

[Blue In BC]

Sankey is highly sought after and buckets of $.  Someone mentioned $50k more for last season, but I bet this season he's more like $100k more than Jones or Wilson.  No way Sankey $ was possible for us after splurging on Ceresna.

Teams salivate over getting Sankey.  No one is interested in our LBers, except as backups or for hard-up teams.

I'm not so sure that is true. Montreal released Sankey in Dec and he was signed by the Lions. Because the SMS went up in 2025 and again in 2026 it's harder to evaluate apples to apples in the world of new SMS contracts.

It was me that mentioned he was earning about $50K than Jones last year. I doubt he's making that much more and may have even taken a cut as an aging player.


 T. Jones was the # 13 of 15 highest paid LB's last year.  We might have had him at a bit of a bargain. We added him to our PR after Edmonton released him in 2024.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Do we just get to pick and chose single games as exemplars for the whole season?

It's of course relevant to look at the whole year but you and I both know the  emphasis should be on how the unit performed in the playoffs and against the better teams/QBs. It's really great that we stomped Montreal's 4th string QB into the ground in August but it matters far less than Alexander beating us by half time in November.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I'm not so sure that is true. Montreal released Sankey in Dec and he was signed by the Lions. Because the SMS went up in 2025 and again in 2026 it's harder to evaluate apples to apples in the world of new SMS contracts.

It was me that mentioned he was earning about $50K than Jones last year. I doubt he's making that much more and may have even taken a cut as an aging player.


T. Jones was the # 13 of 15 highest paid LB's last year.  We might have had him at a bit of a bargain. We added him to our PR after Edmonton released him in 2024.

Tony Jones provides great bang for the buck, hard to find fault with a guy that plays with that intensity, Younger needs to let him play MLB and forget about moving him around and chasing QB's on blitzes, that's not a MLB's job.

Darnell Sankey is a tank, 6'0, 242 lbs, he's the Nik Lewis of the LB world, he works well in specific defences but nothing fancy like pass coverage. I think Lions picked him up mainly so he could key on Brady, Mills, Rankin and Oullettie, Western teams all have strong RB's.

[Blue In BC]

Tony Jones provides great bang for the buck, hard to find fault with a guy that plays with that intensity, Younger needs to let him play MLB and forget about moving him around and chasing QB's on blitzes, that's not a MLB's job.

Darnell Sankey is a tank, 6'0, 242 lbs, he's the Nik Lewis of the LB world, he works well in specific defences but nothing fancy like pass coverage. I think Lions picked him up mainly so he could key on Brady, Mills, Rankin and Oullettie, Western teams all have strong RB's.

Yes but players have different skill sets. We're getting good bang for the buck as you suggested, but Jones is not great in coverage as we discussed most of last year. He was moved to WIL to make that less of a liability.

You could argue we were getting good bang for the buck from Randolph instead of Broxton. That doesn't define who is the better player overall. It does impact the strategy a team uses on defence and you suggested what the Lions might have been thinking.

OTOH, 2025 discussion was about lack of pressure from the front 7 and QB's getting too long to throw with receivers always open.

Jones was part of that but now moved to a different place in the front 7.

Ultimately the question is which player was a better choice. If you base quality of player on his salary, then Sankey wins hands down.  The Bombers may have concluded Jones was a better fit based our strategy. The SMS may have been a factor or less so. Hard to argue that either way.
 SMS is cumulative and you can't have every player you might want.

You might want to consider the impact Sankey had on the Bombers in the Grey Cup after he joined the Als. I argued we should have signed him then and we choose not to. Both sides weighed pros and cons.