Bomber Coaching Changes

[theaardvark]

Jeff Hamilton reporting today that the Younger situation was motivated by Buck threatening to take him as DC to Regina

I wouldn't doubt that Younger was getting interest from any team without a DC.  Or even teams with DC's who were underperforming.

And next year, if he does well, he will be a candidate, like Buck, for a HC job...

[TBURGESS]

The coaching changes aren't much of anything really. Same guys with different designations on defence + replacing the Special Teams coach with a guy who has never coached before. 

[Blue72]

Who will be the DB coach?

[horatio montoya]

for all you guys accusing me of trolling if you kept up with the news sure enough NE has transitioned away from Belichick. I realize haters gonna hate hate hate but maybe next time youll get in on the scoop

[ModAdmin]

Might make sense that Hall would assume that responsibility since he is a former DB.

[blue_gold_84]

for all you guys accusing me of trolling if you kept up with the news sure enough NE has transitioned away from Belichick. I realize haters gonna hate hate hate but maybe next time youll get in on the scoop

The two parties agreed to part ways. And that has literally nothing to do with Richie Hall who's still employed by the WFC.

You okay?

[ModAdmin]

for all you guys accusing me of trolling if you kept up with the news sure enough NE has transitioned away from Belichick. I realize haters gonna hate hate hate but maybe next time youll get in on the scoop

The issue was that you made the statement  that "Hall is the heir apparent" to Belichek.  There is no evidence of that  but if you have a reliable source for that comment you can share it here.

[LXTSN]

The issue was that you made the statement  that "Hall is the heir apparent" to Belichek.  There is no evidence of that  but if you have a reliable source for that comment you can share it here.

Jerod Mayo is the new coach in New England.

I may have completely missed this statement/argument. Sounds like it was hilarious though lol

EDIT: HA! I'm reading it now and that's awesome!

[Blueforlife]

This is just great I can keep my nose clean and enjoy the ride and peanut galley.  Hall sure will be a good mentor.

[TecnoGenius]

Sounds like the decision to promote Younger was not Hall's plan to step back, O'Shea made the decision so they wouldn't lose Younger to another team.  O'Shea is grateful Hall decided to accept the lesser role and stick around, but in a way it is a demotion.

I'm late to the Hall discussion, and it definitely needs more attention from us because it's probably the biggest change to our team this off-season.  Yes, even as big as "what happens to Brady".

The messaging around the move was very sketchy, and not very transparent.  So what is Hall going to get paid?  Was he still under contract and thus will be earning DC-level salary whilst just sitting around as an advisor?  Or are we now paying him a junior-level salary?

The answer to that will help answer the next question: Is this really a move to retain Younger, or is this a move that finally explains how we found more $$ for KW and Buck, and their mysteriously cleared up re-signings?

If Hall now earns way less, then this probably was all part of the plan when finding the $ to bump up KW/Buck.  Which means the Hall demotion was a done deal weeks ago, even if Hall/public didn't know about it yet.  Kind of like the Boudreau move: which almost certainly was decided when finding the extra coaches' SMS.  They announce these things at different times, making them seem unrelated, but they are probably all part of one big plan.

If Hall earns the same as last year (full DC salary), then it becomes murkier.  We still have Boudreau's salary to bump KW and Buck, but was that enough?  Then I start to wonder if Younger is just a DCINO (DC in name only) and it's really Hall still calling the overall strategy... I wonder what the booth will look like in 2024: will it be Hall right next to Younger, both with headsets on?  Did we then make Younger the DCINO just to protect him from "promotion" moves by other teams?  Now no other team can interview him unless they offer him a HC job, because hiring him as DC would be a lateral move!

Or if Hall keeps his full DC salary it could be that he's not happy with these changes and might really now have "no show" job, no different than if he had been cut outright (with the CFL coach guaranteed salary thing).  Maybe WFC is playing make believe for optics?  Hall is much-loved and won us 2 cups (2019 was 99% on the D).  Just cutting him so other coaches can have pay raises isn't good optics.  I don't think this is the case, but it certainly is possible.

When is the last time in the CFL you saw such a strange announcement about such a strange move?  In general people don't work this way, as egos make it difficult.

And lost in all this is what was Hall's desires and how does he feel about all of this?  We think he's getting close to retirement and/or ailing physically, but Hall hasn't said so, and no other WFC person has either.  Is Hall happy about this or is he seething?  Well, if Hall still was on contract and gets his big DC payday, maybe he's fine with it.  If Younger is the DCINO and Hall is still "D boss" then maybe he's fine with it.  Not saying that's reality, we're just left totally in the dark about this massive coaching change with very, very little transparency -- not that that's atypical for WFC, mind you.  What happens in those hallowed IGF halls, stays in those hallowed halls.

Bottom line: I have no idea how to interpret the Hall/Younger moves because other than "we didn't want to lose Younger" we haven't been told squat.  I'm not sure anyone knows what happened to his salary.  I also have no idea what Hall's "real" role with the team will be come week 1.  What I do know is we all owe Hall our gratitude for putting together the best D for quite a few of the seasons he has been here.  While our D could have won the '22 and '23 GC had they made stops on the final drives, I personally blame the O's for pooping the bed on their final drives when they could have run out the clock.

By making Hall an advisor vs him retiring or being cut, he's kind of in this limbo state where he can be forgotten and miss out on the accolades and celebration he deserves.

Personally I'm glad to see Younger take over DC, even if he's doing it a year or three earlier than most here had guessed.  Losing him would have stunk, and I believe The Mafia when they say there was a risk of that.  I think most here guessed that Younger was being groomed for DC just as Buck was for OC.  But I'm not sure I'm happy as to how this all shook out for Hall, and unless he chimes in, we may never know.  He always was a class act, and I won't be surprised if he "takes one for the team" and doesn't complain about it.

[TecnoGenius]

Would love to know what goes on behind the scenes but what I have noticed is that for years Boudreau was attached at the hip to MOS on the sidelines. This year it would be rare to find them in the same tv frame. The famous O'Shea loyalty went where and for what reason? Something happened.

Great point.  Boudreau always was tagging along right behind MOS.  In-game.  Pre-game.  Practice.  They really seemed to click, or have a lot to talk about, or maybe Boudreau was like that little dog in the Bugs Bunny cartoons: a hanger-on yes-man booster to the big dog?  My gut says they were close, not Bugs Bunny, but who really knows.

I hadn't thought about your second point, but now that you mention it, they may not have been together as much as previous years.  As I rewatch 2023, I'll keep an eye out.  But I do remember seeing less of Boudreau+MOS in the IGF warm ups.  I always get there 1.5+ hours before KO and check everyone out with the binocs.  In previous years Boudreau and MOS would always come out of the tunnel at the same time and hang around a lot.

MOS is loyal when he loves you, but you need to keep up your side of the bargain and not disappoint him with things he sees as a lack of character or effort.  We all saw that with AH33 and his coming to camp in '21 out of shape and not in the correct headspace due to his personal issues.  You could see the change in how MOS interacted with him on the sidelines all year: contrast MOS/AH33 interactions on tv in the '19 GC vs the '21 GC.

So maybe the Boudreau situation was something similar, and not just a money move.  It'll be hard to ever know, unless Boudreau is miffed and decides to spill the beans.  I wouldn't hold my breath for that, though it has been known to occur (Leggett's podcast anyone?).

At the end of the day, I'll have to retire my little quip about our STC always looking like one of Biff's friends from Back To The Future (visor, pen-chewing; only thing missing is the 3D glasses).  Every Bomber fan I ever tell that to in real life always chuckles and says "ya".  They never know his name, but they know the guy I'm talking about! 

And, like Hall, Boudreau deserves some recognition for the huge amount of years he put in here and the many successes he had, including a few P/K returns for TDs by Grant in post-season games.  I hope he gets a jumbotron nod at one of the IGF games this season.

[Jesse]

I'm late to the Hall discussion, and it definitely needs more attention from us because it's probably the biggest change to our team this off-season.  Yes, even as big as "what happens to Brady".

The messaging around the move was very sketchy, and not very transparent.  So what is Hall going to get paid?  Was he still under contract and thus will be earning DC-level salary whilst just sitting around as an advisor?  Or are we now paying him a junior-level salary?

The answer to that will help answer the next question: Is this really a move to retain Younger, or is this a move that finally explains how we found more $$ for KW and Buck, and their mysteriously cleared up re-signings?

If Hall now earns way less, then this probably was all part of the plan when finding the $ to bump up KW/Buck.  Which means the Hall demotion was a done deal weeks ago, even if Hall/public didn't know about it yet.  Kind of like the Boudreau move: which almost certainly was decided when finding the extra coaches' SMS.  They announce these things at different times, making them seem unrelated, but they are probably all part of one big plan.

If Hall earns the same as last year (full DC salary), then it becomes murkier.  We still have Boudreau's salary to bump KW and Buck, but was that enough?  Then I start to wonder if Younger is just a DCINO (DC in name only) and it's really Hall still calling the overall strategy... I wonder what the booth will look like in 2024: will it be Hall right next to Younger, both with headsets on?  Did we then make Younger the DCINO just to protect him from "promotion" moves by other teams?  Now no other team can interview him unless they offer him a HC job, because hiring him as DC would be a lateral move!

Or if Hall keeps his full DC salary it could be that he's not happy with these changes and might really now have "no show" job, no different than if he had been cut outright (with the CFL coach guaranteed salary thing).  Maybe WFC is playing make believe for optics?  Hall is much-loved and won us 2 cups (2019 was 99% on the D).  Just cutting him so other coaches can have pay raises isn't good optics.  I don't think this is the case, but it certainly is possible.

When is the last time in the CFL you saw such a strange announcement about such a strange move?  In general people don't work this way, as egos make it difficult.

And lost in all this is what was Hall's desires and how does he feel about all of this?  We think he's getting close to retirement and/or ailing physically, but Hall hasn't said so, and no other WFC person has either.  Is Hall happy about this or is he seething?  Well, if Hall still was on contract and gets his big DC payday, maybe he's fine with it.  If Younger is the DCINO and Hall is still "D boss" then maybe he's fine with it.  Not saying that's reality, we're just left totally in the dark about this massive coaching change with very, very little transparency -- not that that's atypical for WFC, mind you.  What happens in those hallowed IGF halls, stays in those hallowed halls.

Bottom line: I have no idea how to interpret the Hall/Younger moves because other than "we didn't want to lose Younger" we haven't been told squat.  I'm not sure anyone knows what happened to his salary.  I also have no idea what Hall's "real" role with the team will be come week 1.  What I do know is we all owe Hall our gratitude for putting together the best D for quite a few of the seasons he has been here.  While our D could have won the '22 and '23 GC had they made stops on the final drives, I personally blame the O's for pooping the bed on their final drives when they could have run out the clock.

By making Hall an advisor vs him retiring or being cut, he's kind of in this limbo state where he can be forgotten and miss out on the accolades and celebration he deserves.

Personally I'm glad to see Younger take over DC, even if he's doing it a year or three earlier than most here had guessed.  Losing him would have stunk, and I believe The Mafia when they say there was a risk of that.  I think most here guessed that Younger was being groomed for DC just as Buck was for OC.  But I'm not sure I'm happy as to how this all shook out for Hall, and unless he chimes in, we may never know.  He always was a class act, and I won't be surprised if he "takes one for the team" and doesn't complain about it.

I don't find any of this strange at all. It's a succession plan. We're watching the same thing in Calgary as Huff has moves up and out. Wally did the same thing with BC. We saw the first real risk of losing some of our coaches this year with Buck potentially leaving and taking Younger with him - so we acted. Maybe a year earlier than planned, or maybe a year or two later than they originally planned.


Boudreau I see as a very separate move due to performance. Getting Miller in as his replacement was certainly two tiered as he comes in as a MOS loyalty hire and as a cost saving measure.

[TecnoGenius]

I don't find any of this strange at all. It's a succession plan. We're watching the same thing in Calgary as Huff has moves up and out. Wally did the same thing with BC. We saw the first real risk of losing some of our coaches this year with Buck potentially leaving and taking Younger with him - so we acted. Maybe a year earlier than planned, or maybe a year or two later than they originally planned.

The strange part is keeping the demoted/cut/canned guy on in a lesser role, perhaps against his will (who knows).  When have we ever seen that?  Name one team/instance.  Usually the old guy disappears, goes off to a new team, or gets a promotion (i.e. coord turns to HC, HC to GM...).

I could see a lot of guys getting the shaft like this saying "bleep you" and leaving, and taking any guaranteed salary they are owed with them.

Also, don't you find it a bit unnerving that outside teams are basically deciding (forcing our hand) who and how we structure our coordinators (if the rumor you mentioned is true)?  Who's really in control then?

It's all a very odd situation, and I'm just very thankful they (so far) have made it all work.  This has got to be some high stress for KW/WM and kudos to them for probably making the best moves given the situation and budget constraints.

[Jesse]

The strange part is keeping the demoted/cut/canned guy on in a lesser role, perhaps against his will (who knows).  When have we ever seen that?  Name one team/instance.  Usually the old guy disappears, goes off to a new team, or gets a promotion (i.e. coord turns to HC, HC to GM...).

I could see a lot of guys getting the shaft like this saying "bleep you" and leaving, and taking any guaranteed salary they are owed with them.

Also, don't you find it a bit unnerving that outside teams are basically deciding (forcing our hand) who and how we structure our coordinators (if the rumor you mentioned is true)?  Who's really in control then?

Yeah, I can't say I agree with you at all on this one. I don't think it's an uncommon practice at all for a retiring staff member to stay on as an advisor to a new staff (Pete Carroll was just fired as HC of the Seahawks and is staying on as an advisor and he 100% didn't agree to step down). But in the case of Hall, I completely believe it came as a mutual decision that's probably been talked about for the past couple of years.

And in my previous post I talked about Wally and Huff who simply acted as advisors to other GMs late in their careers. Yes, they reached higher in the organization than Hall, but they still eventually moved on from their roles and let others take over.

The control thing you mention is weird, but obviously coaches (and players) switch teams all the time, and everyone is constantly trying to either keep their own or find the best from other staffs and re-organizing based on that. The people themselves are in charge of where they go. If Buck chose to leave to take a HC job, we'd have to replace him. If we don't want coordinators to leave, you try and give them a pay raise or ***. Hc. title. This is really common stuff.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

As far as finding room for Richie, I believe the Bombers borrowed a page from the Ti-Cats old book of trickery by keeping him on as a "consultant", doubt his salary counts towards the coaching cap and doubt he took much of a pay cut for operating in the background.  Under the two salary caps they might be maxed out, but in the real world the team has to be swimming in revenue.