SSK @ CGY - Oct 13, 2023

TecnoGenius · October 14, 2023, 08:56:00 AM

No thread yet?

Holy smokes this may have been the absolute worst played, worst called, worst coached, worst officiated, dumbest ending game of the season. Yet still mildly entertaining, like an episode of The Three Stooges.

The entire second half I'm screaming the fouls out live and then timeouts and challenges and pauses later the refs or command finally figure out what I said 3 minutes ago. Command did finally get basically everything right, but a game shouldn't be a bogged down command review-fest.

I'm hitting up CKRM for the poops and giggles. I'm sure I'll have more to say.

What did you gals/guys think of the game?

TecnoGenius · October 14, 2023, 09:04:37 AM

The worst Dickerson decision, out of many bad decisions tonight, was probably not kicking the FG from the 35-ish, so like a 42Y FG. Riderfans said wind was 24km against, and that sucks but I think every starting PK can make that kick 80%+ of the time. Instead they do that 2-guys-onside punt that fails.

And if you don't want to FG attempt, you go for it on 3rd!

Maybe in the end it wouldn't have mattered, but being up 3 at that moment may have changed how CGY played the game, with more pressure on Maier.

TecnoGenius · October 14, 2023, 10:34:36 AM

4Q3:16 Dickenson (CGY) calls a timeout in order to get a "backdoor challenge", or a free command review on the non-horsecollar horsecollar flag. This really should not be allowed, and the procedure the refs and EITS and then command follow must be more clearly spelled out. It's been a grey area and clear as mud for a few seasons now, ever since they allowed EITS and command to auto-review more things.

He absolutely should have been forced to issue a challenge if he wanted to delay the game and talk to the refs and get command to look at it. What's the difference you say?... He lost / would lose a timeout in either case. But by using a TO and not a challenge, he doesn't have any challenge at risk. So if he lost the gambit he still keeps his challenge. This cannot be allowed.

EITS/Command need to have clearly laid out fouls (called or not called) they can adjust and basically be forced to actually look for them, and clear procedures and timelines of when they can occur. Right now they just seem to make it all up and we have situations like this where Dave plays the system. This is the same thing Riderfans always scream about WPG "cheating" with command "favoring" us because they've often auto-reviewed calls and then given us a favorable call. Because it's all opaque no one can know if there's bias or chicanery, and they really do seem to just throw darts as to whether they'll step in or not.

Did you see the big grin/smirk on Dave's face as he buddy-buddies it up with the nearest official after he steals the free challenge?? He knows he just got away with murder. And to be clear, the problem isn't that he won or that the correct call was finally made, the problem is how they got there via a system that seems completely ad-hoc and unfair to the other team. I'm not rooting for the Greenies, but I totally agree with their fanbase on this one.

They could stop this abuse simply by saying that command cannot auto-review anything after a team timeout has been called. They also cannot listen to any chirping the TO-calling coach makes. So if Dickie didn't like it, he could have just issued a legit full challenge. Alternatively, they could have a little button the HCs and maybe the TSN booth guys/director could press maybe 10 times a game each to indicate "hint: look a little harder at this play, I think they got it wrong". Not full challenges, but a hint that everyone missed something obvious, like this phantom HC call. Yes, that might slow down the game slightly for these "micro-reviews".

The whole EITS/autoreview thing is supposed to be a sort of promise that they will try to get certain, pre-specified, really egregiously bad calls corrected without coaches having to issue a challenge. This play is the perfect candidate. And if they don't want to or cannot fulfill that promise then they should do away with all auto-reviews except on, maybe, DQ type UR upgrades.

Aside, not related to this call, but did occur elsewhere in this game: The review/challenge procedure is just a muddle where many times the refs don't even put down a call on the field. Then what on earth are they supposed to uphold or overturn? They do a review and then tell us what the call is without ever saying what the field call was, which is absolutely critical because there's supposed to be a higher barrier to overturning field calls.

Waffler · October 14, 2023, 02:08:33 PM

You call it abuse but I call it a loop hole. Smart football. I do think they should close it but until they do, why not use it?

jdrattops · October 14, 2023, 02:22:03 PM

Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 14, 2023, 10:34:36 AM
4Q3:16 Dickenson The Greater (CGY) calls a timeout in order to get a "backdoor challenge", or a free command review on the non-horsecollar horsecollar flag. This really should not be allowed, and the procedure the refs and EITS and then command follow must be more clearly spelled out. It's been a grey area and clear as mud for a few seasons now, ever since they allowed EITS and command to auto-review more things.

He absolutely should have been forced to issue a challenge if he wanted to delay the game and talk to the refs and get command to look at it. What's the difference you say?... He lost / would lose a timeout in either case. But by using a TO and not a challenge, he doesn't have any challenge at risk. So if he lost the gambit he still keeps his challenge. This cannot be allowed.

EITS/Command need to have clearly laid out fouls (called or not called) they can adjust and basically be forced to actually look for them, and clear procedures and timelines of when they can occur. Right now they just seem to make it all up and we have situations like this where Dave plays the system. This is the same thing Riderfans always scream about WPG "cheating" with command "favoring" us because they've often auto-reviewed calls and then given us a favorable call. Because it's all opaque no one can know if there's bias or chicanery, and they really do seem to just throw darts as to whether they'll step in or not.

Did you see the big grin/smirk on Dave's face as he buddy-buddies it up with the nearest official after he steals the free challenge?? He knows he just got away with murder. And to be clear, the problem isn't that he won or that the correct call was finally made, the problem is how they got there via a system that seems completely ad-hoc and unfair to the other team. I'm not rooting for the Greenies, but I totally agree with their fanbase on this one.

They could stop this abuse simply by saying that command cannot auto-review anything after a team timeout has been called. They also cannot listen to any chirping the TO-calling coach makes. So if Dickie didn't like it, he could have just issued a legit full challenge. Alternatively, they could have a little button the HCs and maybe the TSN booth guys/director could press maybe 10 times a game each to indicate "hint: look a little harder at this play, I think they got it wrong". Not full challenges, but a hint that everyone missed something obvious, like this phantom HC call. Yes, that might slow down the game slightly for these "micro-reviews".

The whole EITS/autoreview thing is supposed to be a sort of promise that they will try to get certain, pre-specified, really egregiously bad calls corrected without coaches having to issue a challenge. This play is the perfect candidate. And if they don't want to or cannot fulfill that promise then they should do away with all auto-reviews except on, maybe, DQ type UR upgrades.

Aside, not related to this call, but did occur elsewhere in this game: The review/challenge procedure is just a muddle where many times the refs don't even put down a call on the field. Then what on earth are they supposed to uphold or overturn? They do a review and then tell us what the call is without ever saying what the field call was, which is absolutely critical because there's supposed to be a higher barrier to overturning field calls.

There was no delaying tactics as DD used a timeout. Even if he was forced to use his challenge, he wins it still has a challenge available and would have still had one of his timeouts. What needs to be done is the command centre needs to expedite any obvious errors made by the officials (much like the NFL does). You want the calls to be correct at the end of the day, and the correct call was made by the CC on this play.

dd · October 14, 2023, 08:36:09 PM

Exactly, I don?t care who calls it, command centre or on field officials but if something is missed, get it right, you can?t compromise the integrity of the game just because you want to get the game done in under 2 hours. If there?s an obvious whiff by the officials, get it right and move on

J5V · October 14, 2023, 09:19:05 PM

Quote from: Waffler on October 14, 2023, 02:08:33 PM
You call it abuse but I call it a loop hole. Smart football. I do think they should close it but until they do, why not use it?

Careful you wouldn't want to confuse a Dickenson decision with smart football. :-) But yeah, you're right, it's a loophole.

The Zipp · October 14, 2023, 11:13:34 PM

Hopefully we don't see Ben Major officiating any playoff games

TecnoGenius · October 14, 2023, 11:34:09 PM

Quote from: The Zipp on October 14, 2023, 11:13:34 PM
Hopefully we don't see Ben Major officiating any playoff games

Haha, ya well, they may throw a bone to Major for a SF game. He is the only ref besides Proulx who can do the French thing, and there probably will be a semi in MTL.

The top refs this year will probably be Proulx (go, my main garcon!!) and Kroeker. Valesi is ok but is taking on that annoying Firstdown Foxcroft affect. The rookie Mr Robot won't be getting squat. Who's left now? Makes me miss Little Kim, and Bradbury. When Proulx finally retires the average level of officiating in the league will take a big hit. I think he should ref into his 70s; he can use a motorized scooter...