Official Game Day Thread - Winnipeg at Saskatchewan, September 3, 2023

[TecnoGenius]

At this juncture of the game the one point given up was huge and the fact that they tied it gave them all the momentum into OT and they capitalized....we played not to lose and we lost.
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it....lol.

I agree that there are good arguments for both choices.  I wouldn't have been upset had we taken the ball out.  Though I would have been very nervous on 1st & 10 at the 15!  If we go 2&out with no progress we may have to take a safety on the punt, and that would be an even worse result.  And, if we don't take the safety and we're still at the 15, then after we punt they are starting around midfield (or worse).  The way they were moving the ball and utilizing trick/new plays, and given that it would be 3 down ball, I'd give them a 75% chance of getting the TD they need with no time left.

MOS has clearly stated before that he's very happy to take the 40YL for the 1 point.  The situation would have to be pretty unusual for MOS to not take the single.  In this case there was enough time on the clock that the game possibilities were wide open.

[TecnoGenius]

there were some errant passes thrown by their rookie quarterback so I see a probability of an interception or at the very least our defence prevents the TD.

Dolegala threw zero INTs.  He read the look at took the open guy.  He wasn't throwing short/mid into double coverage.  SSK was pulling out new/trick plays we weren't ready to defend.  Their O had all the morale and momo.  Our D was on their heels just trying not to get steamrolled.  Pass rush was being ineffectual again.  The field position would probably dictate man coverage, not INT-causing zone.  I see the chance of an INT for us as near zero.

[TecnoGenius]

Yes but if we had kicked off the Riders would have ended up with about the same field position. It was a gamble by them but it didn't pay off in any great sense. It should have annoyed the Bombers and woke them up. It didn't.

They didn't get points or too much field position, but they did get all the morale and momentum.  That made them feel like they could beat a far better team because now they had confidence in the plans the coaches drew up.  It's that morale/momo that allowed them to win at the end.

[TecnoGenius]

Just a thought over the weekend. Hire Lapo back as a consultant for the rest of the season. He would be another set of eyes on offence and ST's. He does have extensive CFL experience and is familiar with the Bombers.

I don't think he's still on the Redblacks payroll and the TSN gig is part time? Whether we have any coaching SMS room I'm not sure.

Nice idea, but you already spotted the problem.  There's a money and head count limit in the SMS.  I doubt there's any room for anything.  Not to mention Lapo might be offended at being offered anything less than a OC/HC level job.

Buck can do it, I just think they've all gotten really lazy with the book, or they are keeping the book mostly closed until we really need it, or the extremely limiting CFL practice rules don't allow the time required to teach the players new tweaks and tricks.

There's been 2 games this season where I've been really impressed by Buck and the book.  It used to be every other game.  I'm not sure what the plan or reason is, but it seems like we're stuck with it for now.  I'm expecting a whole different team and scheme come playoff time.

[TecnoGenius]

I don't want to hear injury excuses or reffing excuses, they beat us and TBH kinda beat us up doing it. The dominated special teams from the kick-off to the final whistle, they kept the reigning back to back MOP pedestrian and they whether slightly trapped or not, made the throw and catch we couldn't to successfully make a 2pt convert. So the only excuses we should hear or talk about is looking in the mirror and admitting we didn't play good enough.

Agreed.  It was clear SSK came hungrier and more prepared and in a nastier mood.  They revealed a bunch of new plays.  Every player stepped up.  It's the closest they'll get to a GC this year, and they and their fans were desperate for it.  We couldn't / wouldn't keep up, though I think we made a good effort.  There is no shame in losing the LDC in a close battle.

[Nic16]

As good as the Riders played and as out of sync as the Bombers looked on offence for a good part of the game we were one final play away from going into a 2nd OT.

I would be very surprised if the Bombers O comes out looking disjointed next game. I suspect the demands in practice will be at a few levels higher this week.

[dd]

They didn't get points or too much field position, but they did get all the morale and momentum.  That made them feel like they could beat a far better team because now they had confidence in the plans the coaches drew up.  It's that morale/momo that allowed them to win at the end.

I don?t know why the bombers were 15 yds off the kick off vs the minimum 10.had they lined up 10 yds off the ball that play doesn?t happen, why retreat the additional 5 yds?? I don?t get it

[TecnoGenius]

I don?t know why the bombers were 15 yds off the kick off vs the minimum 10.had they lined up 10 yds off the ball that play doesn?t happen, why retreat the additional 5 yds?? I don?t get it

Because no one OSK's on the first KO?  Except maybe desperate teams who know they cannot win playing normal ball?  How do I know?  Because we used to be that team, think 2013-2014.  MOS was known as the trick play coach.  Now, not so much.  Now it's the Riders' turn.

Has anyone identified the 1-3 guys responsible for that middle area they OSK'd to?  Just like Sayles botched the GC FG attempt, someone botched their assignment on that OSK.  Should have hired me to consult, I would have coached up the ST to watch for every trick in the book for LDC.  No way they weren't going to pull some stunts.

[TecnoGenius]

Want to see something interesting?  Watch the spidercam replay of the final 2pt attempt. Lawler is definitely IC'd.  He's the widest left.  The D guy can jam him within 5 and he does, but Kenny gets by him so fast he's left holding Lawler's side and it even turns Lawler significantly.  Definite impeding.

Refs will miss that a lot, and often not call it even if they see it, but if the ball had gone to Kenny MOS could have challenged for DPI, and won.  Too bad Zach didn't even glance to the left.  It was a 1 read play to Woli all the way, maybe an option to Bailey behind the post had he been more open.

Also, Lawler had his guy beat, even with the IC, and likely catches a weaker-throw corner route.  We need to analyze this final play as teams are killing us on that curl call batdowns, and there must be solutions since they are blitzing.  The middle flat is wide open, and a longer delay could have seen Bailey open behind the post; or throw to a spot with a higher arc like a screen.  Zach didn't have much time, but a BLM-esque backstep retreat 10Y may have bought time.

There's a small chance a QB delayed draw would have worked as the middle started to open up as the D was trying to close the edge lanes.  If we had gone 4R out with a TE, Jackson might have made the critical edge blitzer block.

Suits was wrong, Zach is staring down the play all the way, he never does look left.  He knew the blitz was coming.  He did try to side-arm it a bit, but it wasn't enough.  You aren't going throw those edge blitzes, you need to go over them.  We have such good mid-range receivers, I have no idea why we screw around with the 3-6 yard passes.

[TecnoGenius]

Also, watch the Zach headbutt replay where you can see him on the ground from his front.  Not only does #45 headbutt him, but then he walks into Zach kneeing him directly in the back of the helmet!!  That is 2 UR's.  I'm not sure anyone noticed as #4's arm waving and #45's showboating attracts all attention (it did mine for first 5 watches!).  The knee thing also is a little kick motion, not just a brush, because #45 does another flex-tighten thing with his whole body pushing his knee into his helmet right as he passes!  And this is all 2-3 secs after the first blow: a separate motion and separate instance!

Talk about adding insult to injury!!  Or injury to injury, as the case may be.

I wonder if command noticed that.  Give him another game's worth of suspension?  It just keeps looking worse for #45.  What a DB.  And I don't mean defensive back.

[Blue In BC]

Nice idea, but you already spotted the problem.  There's a money and head count limit in the SMS.  I doubt there's any room for anything.  Not to mention Lapo might be offended at being offered anything less than a OC/HC level job.

Buck can do it, I just think they've all gotten really lazy with the book, or they are keeping the book mostly closed until we really need it, or the extremely limiting CFL practice rules don't allow the time required to teach the players new tweaks and tricks.

There's been 2 games this season where I've been really impressed by Buck and the book.  It used to be every other game.  I'm not sure what the plan or reason is, but it seems like we're stuck with it for now.  I'm expecting a whole different team and scheme come playoff time.

Yes there are coaching SMS limits to numbers and $$$. So that is the biggest question IMO. I don't think it steps on Buck's toes though. Just another set of useful eyes. We're going into game 13 so it's for a 1/3 of the season so money should be a huge amount.

[Nic16]

10 thoughts after watching the game on tv vs live?

1. The first 10 pts of the game were direct result of DBs undercutting passes. Marshall was successful and created a FG. Houston and Rose both missed their undercut on the same drive creating a TD.
2. Buck needs to get Oliveira the ball a little more and do not be afraid to use him 3+ yds out from the goal line.
3. Riders have switched their favourite play - going from using the quick inside slant to the outside slant. They used it over and over with good success.
4. Dolegala is very poised but threw some terrible balls under pressure.
5. I see a lot of Taylor Cornelius in Dolegala. Get a few Ints on him and his poise could change.
6. Riders isolated Morrow on Wilson late in the game for a couple of big plays!
7. Like the 3 undercuts by DBs the 52 yd FG & 2 punt singles turned out to be huge plays
8. Settling for a FG inside the 10 in the 4th was a bit of a game changer.
9. Our offence has to start quicker & ST coverage has to be better in order to win on Saturday.
10. A few key plays by the Riders otherwise this game could have easily went the other way.

[TecnoGenius]

3. Riders have switched their favourite play - going from using the quick inside slant to the outside slant. They used it over and over with good success.

That's not a Rider thing, that's a vs-the-Bombers thing.  Hall chooses to give up that outside slant and wide out play on nearly every down.  Some of our opponents' drives are throwing that wide ball every other pass play.

It's clearly part of our "bend but don't break" scheme.  It doesn't work (for our D) when the QBs get good at it and probably practice it all week.  We need to undercut some of them to make them think twice and pay for some of those easy 7 yards.

6. Riders isolated Morrow on Wilson late in the game for a couple of big plays!

I don't mind Morrow on Wilson, as that's actually the proper/traditional match up.

The thing I want to know was why was Wilson the sole guy covering Bane on the final 2pt?  That is a bad match up: a WILL against a good receiver.  Looks like we were going zone on the 2pt.  Dumb.  Why aren't we in man on that play?  What on earth is gained by zone?  We think we're going to get an INT?  Dumb, just dumb.  Nichols sitting 10 yards back from Bane, covering no one.

10. A few key plays by the Riders otherwise this game could have easily went the other way.

Yup, they made the contested catches, shed the tackles, and got the ball off before blitzes got home, on many occasions.  These were inch-lucky plays, and if just 1 or 2 goes our way instead, we win the game.  It felt like the TOR GC win, where they just made the extra little plays and we did not.

The inch-perfect plays on our side were basically non-existent.  Our only one was maybe the Woli Dressler-esque TD.  And maybe a Biggie sack.

Riders wanted it more.  Had more hunger.  Looked like us in the 2019 post-season.  I'm afraid we may have lost our hunger.  I'm hoping the younger guys (Schoen, Houston, Holm, McCrae) can revive it.  I think Kenny still has that fire, too.

The only way to win these types of games (LDC, WDF, GC) will be to have that little extra fire to make those couple of extra plays.  We used to do that all the time.  Now, not so much.

[Nic16]

The BBDB D that Hall prefers to use actually did very well outside of the Houston & Rose misjudged pick attempts. Unfortunately both were on the same drive and caused big gains. Final result was the only reg time TD by the Riders. If the CBs can manage to knock down a few of those sideline outs or better yet step in front of 1 or 2 I think it will force the Riders to alter their game plan.

Wilson v Morrow is the obvious plan but the Riders did manage to take advantage of it on a couple of plays late in the game and OT. Why Wilson was left with Bane on the 2 pt play is the big question.

Speaking of the quick slant out, on the Riders last play before their game tying FG Dolegala had his passed tipped. Which turned out to be lucky for him because 2 BB DBs we?re closing in on the pass and the Rider receiver was not even looking for the pass. No tip and that very well could have been a game ending 90 yard pick 6!

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

The BBDB D that Hall prefers to use actually did very well outside of the Houston & Rose misjudged pick attempts. Unfortunately both were on the same drive and caused big gains. Final result was the only reg time TD by the Riders. If the CBs can manage to knock down a few of those sideline outs or better yet step in front of 1 or 2 I think it will force the Riders to alter their game plan.

Wilson v Morrow is the obvious plan but the Riders did manage to take advantage of it on a couple of plays late in the game and OT. Why Wilson was left with Bane on the 2 pt play is the big question.

Speaking of the quick slant out, on the Riders last play before their game tying FG Dolegala had his passed tipped. Which turned out to be lucky for him because 2 BB DBs we?re closing in on the pass and the Rider receiver was not even looking for the pass. No tip and that very well could have been a game ending 90 yard pick 6!

On the Coach's Show O'Shea admitted that Houston messed up, the Riders were 2nd and 15 so his priority should have been to stop the receiver from getting a first down and force them to punt.  The pass travelled 12 yards, so he had a 3 yard window to make the tackle even if he was unable to knock the pass down.