Nationalized American rule begins in 2023

[Jesse]

Name two starting Canadian DB's ( aside from safety ) the Bombers have had since 1990.

This is my point. That GMs/coaches are lazy and filled with inherent bias when it comes to Canadian players.

When we needed to in 2016, we started 3 imp on the OL and filled our NIs elsewhere. We routinely start 8 Canadians now (while losing guys like Desjarlais and Kongbo to the NFL). For your DB question, we started Ford this year at CB for a game and he didn't look out of place at all - and that's as a rookie.

I call BS.

[Blue In BC]

This is my point. That GMs/coaches are lazy and filled with inherent bias when it comes to Canadian players.

When we needed to in 2016, we started 3 imp on the OL and filled our NIs elsewhere. We routinely start 8 Canadians now (while losing guys like Desjarlais and Kongbo to the NFL). For your DB question, we started Ford this year at CB for a game and he didn't look out of place at all - and that's as a rookie.

I call BS.

I call BS on your bias claim. That's just the excuse always used. We have a multitude of Canadian coaches including HC's. There are Canadian GM's as well and many that are ex players that came from Canadian college programs.

Lions started a Canadian QB and had a Canadian back up QB. They also had some really good Canadian LB's starting.

There is a difference in needing to adjust the ratio than wanting to adjust the ratio as in your example.

We have 17 import starters ( aside from QB's ) and only 4 DI's. More recently 2 Globals who can only sub for imports.

OTOH, we have 7 Canadian starters and 15 back ups. The math is clear.

Next to the starting QB, an OL is critical to keeping the QB upright, healthy and able to perform, so that's no surprise.

Surprisingly the Bombers did often start more Canadians than they needed to in 2022. IMO that was more about losing veteran imports and not having experienced DI's to replace them. It was a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils. The best example I would suggest was Gauthier subbing for Wilson and then Clement due to injury.

Ford started in a game where we sat half our regulars in a game that had no impact in the standings. Our opponent did much the same. While he didn't look out of place, is this where you want to hang your hat? One game that was nearly the equivalent to a pre season game.

It's as simple as supply and demand. There have been extensive discussions every year about this which include the higher level of coaching and competition in US colleges compared to Canadian. Football in the US starts much earlier and is nearly a religion.

[Jesse]

Interesting how you bring up BC, who is another team that started Canadians in skill positions (as opposed to forcing them on their OL) and experienced great success.

[Blue In BC]

Interesting how you bring up BC, who is another team that started Canadians in skill positions (as opposed to forcing them on their OL) and experienced great success.

Not really. They're the exception to the rule. Having drafted Rourke at # 15 in 2020 means 8 other teams passed on him. The draft has always been a bit of a crap shoot. However having a starting QB on an ELC gave way to freeing up considerable SMS. That allowed them to pay for the very good Canadians in free agency. I don't think they started more than 7 Canadians in most games. They did have issues with Canadian OL though.

Finishing in 4th or 5th in the west standings improved their draft position. They drafted better than some teams with good draft positions. Jordan Williams was a 1st overall pick. Nathan Cherry was a 3rd pick in 1st round.

Cottoy was a territorial protected player. Godber was a 3rd pick in the 1st round.

Signing players like Betts was due to having SMS money etc etc.

If Rourke returns and gets what many posters think will be $500K, that impacts their SMS spend across the roster. They won't have as much ability to pick the best of the best in free agency.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Name two starting Canadian DB's ( aside from safety ) the Bombers have had since 1990.

Matt Bucknor and Merv Walker, that's all I got. :-)

[Blue In BC]

Matt Bucknor and Merv Walker, that's all I got. :-)

LOL. Merv Walker last played about 1983. He started with the Bombers in 1974. He was pretty good.

Matt Bucknor: Ouch, he was not very good. Neither were the Bombers in 2014 and 2015 when he was here. We finished 5th and then 4th.

D. Sampson was a really good player as an inside DHB. Probably the best and most notable for the longest number of seasons. 186 career games mostly in Winnipeg 1986 -1996.

D. Donaldson played CB for a short time and he was not very good either.

A starting Canadian at CB or DHB is a ratio advantage similar to having had a starting RB in A. Harris. Those create competitive advantages as non ratio positions. There are reasons why they suggest they are ratio breaking positions. Not many can compete against the sheer volume of import candidates. There may some bias but it's a sheer reality in supply and demand.

In the old days with 32 man rosters and 10 Canadian starters and more run heavy offences, it was common for the inside DHB's to be Canadian. Doug Strong or Gene Lakusiak for example. The CB's seemed to be exclusively imports. Often the # 2 QB was one of the CB's

[the paw]

Matt Bucknor and Merv Walker, that's all I got. :-)

You forgot Gary Rosolowich....

[Blue In BC]

You forgot Gary Rosolowich....

The last player to intercept a Ron Lancaster pass? Also Gary's last int and season IIRC.

[Jesse]

Not really. They're the exception to the rule. Having drafted Rourke at # 15 in 2020 means 8 other teams passed on him. The draft has always been a bit of a crap shoot. However having a starting QB on an ELC gave way to freeing up considerable SMS. That allowed them to pay for the very good Canadians in free agency. I don't think they started more than 7 Canadians in most games. They did have issues with Canadian OL though.

Finishing in 4th or 5th in the west standings improved their draft position. They drafted better than some teams with good draft positions. Jordan Williams was a 1st overall pick. Nathan Cherry was a 3rd pick in 1st round.

Cottoy was a territorial protected player. Godber was a 3rd pick in the 1st round.

Signing players like Betts was due to having SMS money etc etc.

If Rourke returns and gets what many posters think will be $500K, that impacts their SMS spend across the roster. They won't have as much ability to pick the best of the best in free agency.

We're the exception. No, wait, BC is the exception.

Or there does happen to be talent across the board and some teams are actually willing to put Canadians in positions to succeed

[the paw]

We're the exception. No, wait, BC is the exception.

Or there does happen to be talent across the board and some teams are actually willing to put Canadians in positions to succeed

There is certainly enough of a talent pool to maintain the ratio at 2022 level.

Having said that, it is also clear that the size of  the pool has limits, particularly at positions requiring elite speed.  The role of the ratio is to balance the roster content with the size of the talent pool.  Demski and Gittens are current evidence that there is too end Canadian talent, but this club also started Aaron Hargreaves for several years. 

I would say that there had been an historical bias against Canadian running backs, but the Cornish-Harris-Messam troika blew that up real good.  I think Erlington, Oliveira, Anwi are judged on their merits.

[Jesse]

The Hargreaves years (as they are known), are from when we had GMs who were clearly biased against Canadians and we would trade all of our draft picks away for Americans.

Recent years have shown us that teams are more willing to give Canadians a shot at skill positions, you mention some, which makes it all the more ridiculous that they're messing with the ratio now, imo. Especially in the convoluted way they have agreed to do it.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

The Hargreaves years (as they are known), are from when we had GMs who were clearly biased against Canadians and we would trade all of our draft picks away for Americans.

Recent years have shown us that teams are more willing to give Canadians a shot at skill positions, you mention some, which makes it all the more ridiculous that they're messing with the ratio now, imo. Especially in the convoluted way they have agreed to do it.

Here's hoping the old boys network that dismissed Natl. talent is starting to fade away, with the advent of younger coaches and coordinators and the recent success the Bombers have achieved, the evidence that having a solid Natl. base is critical to a team's success.

[Blue In BC]

There is certainly enough of a talent pool to maintain the ratio at 2022 level.

Having said that, it is also clear that the size of  the pool has limits, particularly at positions requiring elite speed.  The role of the ratio is to balance the roster content with the size of the talent pool.  Demski and Gittens are current evidence that there is too end Canadian talent, but this club also started Aaron Hargreaves for several years. 

I would say that there had been an historical bias against Canadian running backs, but the Cornish-Harris-Messam troika blew that up real good.  I think Erlington, Oliveira, Anwi are judged on their merits.

American colleges have larger staff that include specialists that the CFL doesn't have to the same extent. Training equipment. Medical rehab specialists. Strength / conditioning coaches.

The NFL with such high minimum salaries makes player training a year round job. A CFL player doesn't really have that luxury or training support.

Beyond the shear supply and demand issue it's still more difficult to compete.

I do take exception to the perceived bias of the old boys network a few suggest. Coaches want to win and if they don't they risk their positions. They'd have to be idiots to not play the best player if that individual was a Canadian.

As a fan I don't care if they start 12 Canadians. The goal is winning. Canadian or local association is a bonus but the goal is winning and play well.

[CrazyCanuck89]

American colleges have larger staff that include specialists that the CFL doesn't have to the same extent. Training equipment. Medical rehab specialists. Strength / conditioning coaches.

The NFL with such high minimum salaries makes player training a year round job. A CFL player doesn't really have that luxury or training support.

Beyond the shear supply and demand issue it's still more difficult to compete.

I do take exception to the perceived bias of the old boys network a few suggest. Coaches want to win and if they don't they risk their positions. They'd have to be idiots to not play the best player if that individual was a Canadian.

As a fan I don't care if they start 12 Canadians. The goal is winning. Canadian or local association is a bonus but the goal is winning and play well.

CFL teams have specialists too, but not every team can have as many specialists like the Ti-Cats.

https://ticats.ca/coaches/

[Blue In BC]

CFL teams have specialists too, but not every team can have as many specialists like the Ti-Cats.

https://ticats.ca/coaches/

I realize that but in general the CFL does not have as extensive a group of specials or coaches.