USFL / Derrick Jones

theaardvark · March 04, 2022, 05:12:22 PM

So, Derrick Jones was signed by Calgary earlier this year, but was denied a passport due to having outstanding child support. So, he is ineligible to come to Canada, and subsequently entered the USFL draft and was drafted. It sounds like the CFL/CGY has denied waiving his contract, and is in dispute with the USFL over it.

I get that the CFL/CGY does not want an exodus of CFL players with valid contracts wanting to opt out to play USFL, but this is an odd case in the middle...

Blue In BC · March 04, 2022, 05:54:59 PM

IDK. If he's ineligible to come to Canada then he can't execute the contact. That would seem to negate the contract?

It's seems like a one off and not worth thinking there is any sort of mass exodus.

the paw · March 04, 2022, 06:23:58 PM

It is probably the club's position that the player should have approached them with the issue before signing with USFL. They help guys with passport and border issues all the time, there was probably a good chance he could have got a waiver of some kind, particularly if the club was willing to make direct remittances for child support (for example). It the situation was unresolvable, they probably would have released him. Jones just jumped the gun.

Jesse · March 04, 2022, 07:33:31 PM

I have no sympathy at all for this guy.

He signed the contract a couple of weeks before the draft and now he's trying to pretend they're holding him back from feeding his family or something?

Blue In BC · March 04, 2022, 08:39:20 PM

Quote from: the paw on March 04, 2022, 06:23:58 PM
It is probably the club's position that the player should have approached them with the issue before signing with USFL. They help guys with passport and border issues all the time, there was probably a good chance he could have got a waiver of some kind, particularly if the club was willing to make direct remittances for child support (for example). It the situation was unresolvable, they probably would have released him. Jones just jumped the gun.

USFL TC starts in a couple of weeks and is their season is nearly over by the time the CFL goes to TC.

theaardvark · March 04, 2022, 09:01:57 PM

Sounds like he messed up on many fronts, and I get that while the club has zero legally binding commitment to the player until after TC, that is the way it is, and the standard negotiated by the CFLPA and the league, and that he agreed to in signing the contract.

That said, I certainly wouldn't want him in camp after this, but there is no upside to releasing him now. It will be interesting to see if the USFL allows him to sign/play...

Maybe, if the USFL "buys" his rights.. if they can negotiate his release, but then for the USFL, what is the gain? Any efforts they make to circumvent an opposing leagues legally binding contracts, regardless the circumstances re: passprot, etc, can only be negative...

Going to be interesting to see how this resolves.

I'd probably settle on banning him from ever signing a CFL contract going forward (except maybe with CGY, should they so choose), a "permanent suspension" of the current contract. If he chooses to relinquish any ability ever to be in the CFL, I can see the USFL signing him then... you can't have players going back and forth between the leagues with valid contracts in place.

the paw · March 05, 2022, 02:41:20 AM

Quote from: Blue In BC on March 04, 2022, 08:39:20 PM
USFL TC starts in a couple of weeks and is their season is nearly over by the time the CFL goes to TC.

The clubs position will be that if they can resolve his issue, he will make more in the CFL, so it won't matter if he misses the USFL season.

Blue In BC · March 05, 2022, 02:09:54 PM

Quote from: the paw on March 05, 2022, 02:41:20 AM
The clubs position will be that if they can resolve his issue, he will make more in the CFL, so it won't matter if he misses the USFL season.

Not true. USFL roster players earn about $75K cad for a shorter 10 game season. Since he got drafted, he probably does make the roster. Coming to the CFL he's one of dozens of TC fodder that don't make it past the 1st cut.

Essentially he has a better chance of making the roster in the USFL.

TBURGESS · March 05, 2022, 02:50:40 PM

As I understand it. He signed a CFL contract, which made him ineligible to sign a USFL contract. Jones ignored the rules and signed the USFL contract . (Players must sign a USFL contract to be eligible to be in their draft.) Now he's blaming the Stamps for his mistake.

Calgary isn't going to let him out of his contract, and they shouldn't.

theaardvark · March 05, 2022, 03:05:32 PM

Quote from: TBURGESS on March 05, 2022, 02:50:40 PM
As I understand it. He signed a CFL contract, which made him ineligible to sign a USFL contract. Jones ignored the rules and signed the USFL contract . (Players must sign a USFL contract to be eligible to be in their draft.) Now he's blaming the Stamps for his mistake.

Calgary isn't going to let him out of his contract, and they shouldn't.

Yes, you have the facts straight. But, remember there are "alternate facts" now. That, plus the spin that football contracts are not guaranteed from the team side, just the players side, which player advocates constantly compare to... slavery. A completely unfair comparison, but one that garners sympathy for the player immediately.

Just curious, are there clauses in the CFL players contract about having a valid passport, and whose responsibility it is to acquire/confirm work eligibility? It would seem wise that there be some definition of who is responsible, and what the repercussions are for a player who cannot get across the border. I wonder if there are other "outs" as well, medical, vaccination, etc...

the paw · March 05, 2022, 03:53:00 PM

Quote from: Blue In BC on March 05, 2022, 02:09:54 PM
Not true. USFL roster players earn about $75K cad for a shorter 10 game season. Since he got drafted, he probably does make the roster. Coming to the CFL he's one of dozens of TC fodder that don't make it past the 1st cut.

Essentially he has a better chance of making the roster in the USFL.

According to this link, if he makes the roster (which is no more guaranteed than him making a CFL roster based on a signed contract), he will make $45k USD. Which converts to $57k CDN. Still below the CFL minimum.

And that doesn?t even take into account the relative financial stability of the two leagues.

Blue In BC · March 05, 2022, 04:27:06 PM

Quote from: the paw on March 05, 2022, 03:53:00 PM
According to this link, if he makes the roster (which is no more guaranteed than him making a CFL roster based on a signed contract), he will make $45k USD. Which converts to $57k CDN. Still below the CFL minimum.

And that doesn?t even take into account the relative financial stability of the two leagues.

Ok, that's less than I read somewhere. It's still for only 10 games instead of 18 in the CFL. However they do get $600 a week for pre-season and between $850 - $1000 per game won. So a marginal team that goes 5 - 5 stands to earn another $5K usd. Adding in a 2 week pre-season that's about $6,200 usd added to their earnings.

The stability issue is a valid point to a degree. The USFL starts TC in a week give or take and the CFL is months away.

Were there any other players that signed in the USFL that had signed CFL contracts earlier?

the paw · March 05, 2022, 04:35:51 PM

Quote from: Blue In BC on March 05, 2022, 04:27:06 PM
Ok, that's less than I read somewhere. It's still for only 10 games instead of 18 in the CFL.

Were there any other players that signed in the USFL that had signed CFL contracts earlier?

I think this is an isolated case. I would bet Jones signed with Calgary, then subsequently got hit with his child support issue and scrambled to get into the USFL draft, assuming that Calgary would just let him out of the contract. If his visa/passport issue hadn't arisen, I am sure he would have been content to honour his Calgary contract.

Most of the USFL draftees are guys who have either already tried the CFL, or really don't see Canada as their preferred option. Liam Dobson is another pretty rare case, in that he is a Canadian who has a serious shot at the NFL, who has a short term advantage to signing with the USFL. I don't think either of these is indicative of the main impact of the USFL. The main impact will be neg list guys who will want to try the USFL for their last chance at the NFL rather than coming to Canada to build game tape.

theaardvark · March 05, 2022, 06:04:15 PM

Pretty sure there were some players from the XFL that ended up in Canada after it folded, and I am sure that there will be players from the USFL that don't get the NFL sniff and join the CFL mid season. There are always injury situations where we need to airlift in players, it will be interesting to see what the scope of USFL contracts are, do they continue to a USFL free agent period that will prevent players from signing in the CFL...

I know the contracts obviously have an NFL out after the season regardless what the term is, but do they have a CFL out after the season?

Blue In BC · March 05, 2022, 06:45:53 PM

Quote from: theaardvark on March 05, 2022, 06:04:15 PM
Pretty sure there were some players from the XFL that ended up in Canada after it folded, and I am sure that there will be players from the USFL that don't get the NFL sniff and join the CFL mid season. There are always injury situations where we need to airlift in players, it will be interesting to see what the scope of USFL contracts are, do they continue to a USFL free agent period that will prevent players from signing in the CFL...

I know the contracts obviously have an NFL out after the season regardless what the term is, but do they have a CFL out after the season?

We got Nichols from the XFL and he's as good as they come. Solid DB. There were a few very good players that made the transition to the CFL from the XFL.

At the moment there is no agreement for a CFL opt out after the 1st season. Bigger question is does the league survive to season 2 and if so how big a change do teams see in their rosters.

A player cut by one team made land elsewhere or come to Canada.