Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Offside Forum => Topic started by: theaardvark on March 04, 2022, 05:12:22 PM



Title: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: theaardvark on March 04, 2022, 05:12:22 PM
So, Derrick Jones was signed by Calgary earlier this year, but was denied a passport due to having outstanding child support.  So, he is ineligible to come to Canada, and subsequently entered the USFL draft and was drafted.  It sounds like the CFL/CGY has denied waiving his contract, and is in dispute with the USFL over it.

I get that the CFL/CGY does not want an exodus of CFL players with valid contracts wanting to opt out to play USFL, but this is an odd case in the middle...


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: Blue In BC on March 04, 2022, 05:54:59 PM
IDK. If he's ineligible to come to Canada then he can't execute the contact. That would seem to negate the contract?

It's seems like a one off and not worth thinking there is any sort of mass exodus.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: the paw on March 04, 2022, 06:23:58 PM
It is probably the club's position that the player should have approached them with the issue before signing with USFL.  They help guys with passport and border issues all the time, there was probably a good chance he could have got a waiver of some kind, particularly if the club was willing to make direct remittances for child support (for example).  It the situation was unresolvable, they probably would have released him.  Jones just jumped the gun.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: Jesse on March 04, 2022, 07:33:31 PM
I have no sympathy at all for this guy.

He signed the contract a couple of weeks before the draft and now he's trying to pretend they're holding him back from feeding his family or something?



Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: Blue In BC on March 04, 2022, 08:39:20 PM
It is probably the club's position that the player should have approached them with the issue before signing with USFL.  They help guys with passport and border issues all the time, there was probably a good chance he could have got a waiver of some kind, particularly if the club was willing to make direct remittances for child support (for example).  It the situation was unresolvable, they probably would have released him.  Jones just jumped the gun.

USFL TC starts in a couple of weeks and is their season is nearly over by the time the CFL goes to TC.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: theaardvark on March 04, 2022, 09:01:57 PM
Sounds like he messed up on many fronts, and I get that while the club has zero legally binding commitment to the player until after TC, that is the way it is, and the standard negotiated by the CFLPA and the league, and that he agreed to in signing the contract. 

That said, I certainly wouldn't want him in camp after this, but there is no upside to releasing him now.  It will be interesting to see if the USFL allows him to sign/play...

Maybe, if the USFL "buys" his rights.. if they can negotiate his release, but then for the USFL, what is the gain?  Any efforts they make to circumvent an opposing leagues legally binding contracts, regardless the circumstances re: passprot, etc, can only be negative...

Going to be interesting to see how this resolves. 

I'd probably settle on banning him from ever signing a CFL contract going forward (except maybe with CGY, should they so choose), a "permanent suspension" of the current contract.  If he chooses to relinquish any ability ever to be in the CFL, I can see the USFL signing him then... you can't have players going back and forth between the leagues with valid contracts in place.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: the paw on March 05, 2022, 02:41:20 AM
USFL TC starts in a couple of weeks and is their season is nearly over by the time the CFL goes to TC.

The clubs position will be that if they can resolve his issue, he will make more in the CFL, so it won't matter if he misses the USFL season. 


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: Blue In BC on March 05, 2022, 02:09:54 PM
The clubs position will be that if they can resolve his issue, he will make more in the CFL, so it won't matter if he misses the USFL season. 

Not true.  USFL roster players earn about $75K cad for a shorter 10 game season. Since he got drafted, he probably does make the roster. Coming to the CFL he's one of dozens of TC fodder that don't make it past the 1st cut.

Essentially he has a better chance of making the roster in the USFL.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: TBURGESS on March 05, 2022, 02:50:40 PM
As I understand it. He signed a CFL contract, which made him ineligible to sign a USFL contract.  Jones ignored the rules and signed the USFL contract . (Players must sign a USFL contract to be eligible to be in their draft.) Now he's blaming the Stamps for his mistake.

Calgary isn't going to let him out of his contract, and they shouldn't.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2022, 03:05:32 PM
As I understand it. He signed a CFL contract, which made him ineligible to sign a USFL contract.  Jones ignored the rules and signed the USFL contract . (Players must sign a USFL contract to be eligible to be in their draft.) Now he's blaming the Stamps for his mistake.

Calgary isn't going to let him out of his contract, and they shouldn't.

Yes, you have the facts straight.  But, remember there are "alternate facts" now.  That, plus the spin that football contracts are not guaranteed from the team side, just the players side, which player advocates constantly compare to... slavery.  A completely unfair comparison, but one that garners sympathy for the player immediately.

Just curious, are there clauses in the CFL players contract about having a valid passport, and whose responsibility it is to acquire/confirm work eligibility?  It would seem wise that there be some definition of who is responsible, and what the repercussions are for a player who cannot get across the border.  I wonder if there are other "outs" as well, medical, vaccination, etc...


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: the paw on March 05, 2022, 03:53:00 PM
Not true.  USFL roster players earn about $75K cad for a shorter 10 game season. Since he got drafted, he probably does make the roster. Coming to the CFL he's one of dozens of TC fodder that don't make it past the 1st cut.

Essentially he has a better chance of making the roster in the USFL.


According to this link, if he makes the roster (which is no more guaranteed than him making a CFL roster based on a signed contract), he will make $45k USD.  Which converts to $57k CDN.  Still below the CFL minimum.

And that doesn?t even take into account the relative financial stability of the two leagues.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: Blue In BC on March 05, 2022, 04:27:06 PM
According to this link, if he makes the roster (which is no more guaranteed than him making a CFL roster based on a signed contract), he will make $45k USD.  Which converts to $57k CDN.  Still below the CFL minimum.

And that doesn?t even take into account the relative financial stability of the two leagues.

Ok, that's less than I read somewhere. It's still for only 10 games instead of 18 in the CFL. However they do get $600 a week for pre-season and between $850 - $1000 per game won. So a marginal team that goes 5 - 5 stands to earn another $5K usd. Adding in a 2 week pre-season that's about $6,200 usd added to their earnings.

The stability issue is a valid point to a degree. The USFL starts TC in a week give or take and the CFL is months away.

Were there any other players that signed in the USFL that had signed CFL contracts earlier?


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: the paw on March 05, 2022, 04:35:51 PM
Ok, that's less than I read somewhere. It's still for only 10 games instead of 18 in the CFL.

Were there any other players that signed in the USFL that had signed CFL contracts earlier?

I think this is an isolated case.  I would bet Jones signed with Calgary, then subsequently got hit with his child support issue and scrambled to get into the USFL draft, assuming that Calgary would just let him out of the contract.  If his visa/passport issue hadn't arisen, I am sure he would have been content to honour his Calgary contract.

Most of the USFL draftees are guys who have either already tried the CFL, or really don't see Canada as their preferred option.  Liam Dobson is another pretty rare case, in that he is a Canadian who has a serious shot at the NFL, who has a short term advantage to signing with the USFL.   I don't think either of these is indicative of the main impact of the USFL.  The main impact will be neg list guys who will want to try the USFL for their last chance at the NFL rather than coming to Canada to build game tape.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2022, 06:04:15 PM
Pretty sure there were some players from the XFL that ended up in Canada after it folded, and I am sure that there will be players from the USFL that don't get the NFL sniff and join the CFL mid season.  There are always injury situations where we need to airlift in players, it will be interesting to see what the scope of USFL contracts are, do they continue to a USFL free agent period that will prevent players from signing in the CFL...

I know the contracts obviously have an NFL out after the season regardless what the term is, but do they have a CFL out after the season?


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: Blue In BC on March 05, 2022, 06:45:53 PM
Pretty sure there were some players from the XFL that ended up in Canada after it folded, and I am sure that there will be players from the USFL that don't get the NFL sniff and join the CFL mid season.  There are always injury situations where we need to airlift in players, it will be interesting to see what the scope of USFL contracts are, do they continue to a USFL free agent period that will prevent players from signing in the CFL...

I know the contracts obviously have an NFL out after the season regardless what the term is, but do they have a CFL out after the season?

We got Nichols from the XFL and he's as good as they come. Solid DB. There were a few very good players that made the transition to the CFL from the XFL.

At the moment there is no agreement for a CFL opt out after the 1st season. Bigger question is does the league survive to season 2 and if so how big a change do teams see in their rosters.

A player cut by one team made land elsewhere or come to Canada.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2022, 06:56:00 PM
We got Nichols from the XFL and he's as good as they come. Solid DB. There were a few very good players that made the transition to the CFL from the XFL.

At the moment there is no agreement for a CFL opt out after the 1st season. Bigger question is does the league survive to season 2 and if so how big a change do teams see in their rosters.

A player cut by one team made land elsewhere or come to Canada.

My question is when do USFL contracts end?  At the end of their season, or do they stretch to the next season like our contracts?


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: the paw on March 05, 2022, 08:20:27 PM
My question is when do USFL contracts end?  At the end of their season, or do they stretch to the next season like our contracts?

The players sign for one year, with a second year club option and an NFL escape clause.  So, unless they get an NFL offer or are cut, no one currently signed with the USFL will be available until 2024.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: TecnoGenius on March 05, 2022, 08:32:46 PM
Ok, I get the whole XLF/USFL conversation, etc, and it is interesting... but my question is:

Who on earth is Derrick Jones and why do I care?  The thread makes it sound like he's Doug Flutie or the next Mr. Football or something.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: Blue In BC on March 05, 2022, 09:09:54 PM
Ok, I get the whole XLF/USFL conversation, etc, and it is interesting... but my question is:

Who on earth is Derrick Jones and why do I care?  The thread makes it sound like he's Doug Flutie or the next Mr. Football or something.


We need to have an agreement with the USFL to honour our contracts. Their season will be on going as we approach CFL TC and we don't want them signing players we intended to bring to a CFL camp.

Jones might have been the 1st player cut or been a good player. Ditto for any other player that does this.

We'll have to watch how he does but it's 1 player so far out of 400 or so drafted by the USFL. Inconsequential unless it continues.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: TBURGESS on March 05, 2022, 09:26:57 PM
Yes, you have the facts straight.  But, remember there are "alternate facts" now.  That, plus the spin that football contracts are not guaranteed from the team side, just the players side, which player advocates constantly compare to... slavery.  A completely unfair comparison, but one that garners sympathy for the player immediately.

Just curious, are there clauses in the CFL players contract about having a valid passport, and whose responsibility it is to acquire/confirm work eligibility?  It would seem wise that there be some definition of who is responsible, and what the repercussions are for a player who cannot get across the border.  I wonder if there are other "outs" as well, medical, vaccination, etc...
'Alternate facts' is just another way of saying lies. Spin doesn't matter. Folks shouldn't waste their sympathy on a player who made a 'mistake on purpose'. IE: Fraudulently signing a USFL contract. The CFL contract was legally signed, so it's the one that counts.

I don't know or care about the clauses in the CFL contract and it doesn't really matter. The key is that the USFL runs April 16 to mid June while the CFL TC starts June 9. Calgary can and should wait until just before TC to give any player an out for not being able to cross the boarder (Or they could help the player), or No-Vax, or Medical. By that time, it's too late to go to the USFL.  


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2022, 09:52:26 PM
'Alternate facts' is just another way of saying lies. Spin doesn't matter. Folks shouldn't waste their sympathy on a player who made a 'mistake on purpose'. IE: Fraudulently signing a USFL contract. The CFL contract was legally signed, so it's the one that counts.

I don't know or care about the clauses in the CFL contract and it doesn't really matter. The key is that the USFL runs April 16 to mid June while the CFL TC starts June 9. Calgary can and should wait until just before TC to give any player an out for not being able to cross the boarder (Or they could help the player), or No-Vax, or Medical. By that time, it's too late to go to the USFL.  

I get the sentiment, but do we want to be antagonistic to other leagues, or co-operative.  Do we want players to think the CFL is a bad league to sign with, or a good opportunity. 

How the league deals with this issue will be important for future perception, it has very little to do with Derrick Jones and his ability or lack thereof. 

We want players to want to come here, both for the opportunity to play, earn a living, grow as a player and potentially have an NFL opportunity.  If that never materializes but they manage to have a long career as a CFL player, that's good for us.  If the CFL gets painted as a league that takes advantage of its contracts to freeze players out of other opportunities, that's not good PR.  So its a fine balance between the decisions to hold him to his deal, and get rid of what is going to be a bad PR situation, especially if he gets cut in/before TC.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: TBURGESS on March 06, 2022, 02:59:59 PM
I get the sentiment, but do we want to be antagonistic to other leagues, or co-operative.  Do we want players to think the CFL is a bad league to sign with, or a good opportunity. 

How the league deals with this issue will be important for future perception, it has very little to do with Derrick Jones and his ability or lack thereof. 

We want players to want to come here, both for the opportunity to play, earn a living, grow as a player and potentially have an NFL opportunity.  If that never materializes but they manage to have a long career as a CFL player, that's good for us.  If the CFL gets painted as a league that takes advantage of its contracts to freeze players out of other opportunities, that's not good PR.  So its a fine balance between the decisions to hold him to his deal, and get rid of what is going to be a bad PR situation, especially if he gets cut in/before TC.
You're right, it's not about Jones. Do we want our contracts to mean anything? Do we want players signing with the CFL then taking a 'better offer' in another league? Would you want Callaros to ignore his contract if he got a better deal? Of course not.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: Jesse on March 06, 2022, 03:26:48 PM
You're right, it's not about Jones. Do we want our contracts to mean anything? Do we want players signing with the CFL then taking a 'better offer' in another league? Would you want Callaros to ignore his contract if he got a better deal? Of course not.

This is it. This is cut and dry.

He signed a contract and needs to honour it.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: Blue In BC on March 06, 2022, 04:00:25 PM
This is it. This is cut and dry.

He signed a contract and needs to honour it.

In theory yes but in reality it's not that clear. CFL contracts are not guaranteed. Players sign contracts for TC every season across the CFL and are released before they even make it to TC.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: TBURGESS on March 06, 2022, 06:52:07 PM
In theory yes but in reality it's not that clear. CFL contracts are not guaranteed. Players sign contracts for TC every season across the CFL and are released before they even make it to TC.
In reality, a contract is a contract. The CFL contracts allow teams to release players, not the other way around. If players don't like the contract, then they shouldn't sign it.


Title: Re: USFL / Derrick Jones
Post by: theaardvark on April 17, 2022, 01:38:19 AM
The end of this saga....  a whimper... and now he is on the PR on New Orleans...

https://3downnation.com/2022/04/15/former-nfl-draft-pick-derrick-jones-signs-in-usfl-after-quiet-release-from-stampeders/

While the Stampeders have not formally announced the move, the CFL?s transactions page indicates that the team quietly released the disgruntled Jones on April 8. The move came more than a month after the Ole Miss product made noise for publicly calling out the team after they refused his request to be allowed to play in the nascent spring league.