Winnipeg Jets Discussion - 2021/2022 Season

[Pigskin]

Yes, Barron is a big boy at 6' 4" 220, skates well, and love to hit, good fit with 17/22.

[blue_gold_84]

MS55 is -20, PLD80 is -2.  I know, +/- is a dumb stat, but it is an illustration of a player's offence vs. his defence. 

Your #1C needs to handle the opponents as much as he needs to produce points.  Yes, MS55 is a liability right now, regardless his point production. 

For comparison, BW26 is -9, AL19 is +3, CP91 +1, KC81 +0, NE27 +10

Building a team around +/- is a fools errand, I know... but ignoring it isn't smart either...

You pretty much owned yourself here with this contradictory nonsense. +/- is a garbage stat and you proved why in those above comments by focusing solely on it. You also fail to address anything else.

The Jets surrender more goals than they score, regardless of the who's on the ice. That's a team issue, so deleting two players doesn't solve anything. On the contrary, it makes the Jets a much more inferior team offensively. You don't get better by getting rid of players who produce offense.

Addressing a team issue such as this starts with who's behind the bench. It's really that simple and Maurice spoke to that when he resigned. Lowry was a placeholder and that's evidenced by the team making the same mistakes since he took over; he's not the answer going forward. The coaching staff needs to be improved and new systems need to be implemented, and that should be the organization's top priority in the off-season. Maybe Lowry gets retained in an assistant role but he's not head coach material. The only other coach I'd consider retaining is Flaherty. The rest can be shown the door.

Excellent game tonight. Would have been nice to win that one, but one mistake and they made us pay.

MS55 showed again tonight why this team needs him.

NE27 was all over the ice tonight and used his speed like he can. Felt bad for him on the OT penalty.

Love PL80 but another bad penalty tonight. If your going to be a leader, you can't take those type of penalties.

JM44 had another great game tonight. Even with the worst +/- for our D, he still is our best D man. +/- is over rated.

AL17 is just so good on the PK.

KC81, to bad he got covid, he was on fire before that.

Agreed on all points. Dubois' lack of discipline is troubling at times. He's the only Jet who's cracked 100 PIM (the next closest is Dillon at 63).

The Jets battled hard last night. The talent is there but the consistent effort is not.

[Pigskin]

You pretty much owned yourself here with this contradictory nonsense. +/- is a garbage stat and you proved why in those above comments by focusing solely on it. You also fail to address anything else.

The Jets surrender more goals than they score, regardless of the who's on the ice. That's a team issue, so deleting two players doesn't solve anything. On the contrary, it makes the Jets a much more inferior team offensively. You don't get better by getting rid of players who produce offense.

Addressing a team issue such as this starts with who's behind the bench. It's really that simple and Maurice spoke to that when he resigned. Lowry was a placeholder and that's evidenced by the team making the same mistakes since he took over; he's not the answer going forward. The coaching staff needs to be improved and new systems need to be implemented, and that should be the organization's top priority in the off-season. Maybe Lowry gets retained in an assistant role but he's not head coach material. The only other coach I'd consider retaining is Flaherty. The rest can be shown the door.

Agreed on all points. Dubois' lack of discipline is troubling at times. He's the only Jet who's cracked 100 PIM (the next closest is Dillon at 63).

The Jets battled hard last night. The talent is there but the consistent effort is not.

I fell like our PP needs to get better. Teams will let you pass the puck around the outside all night long. It looks great for the fans, but at the end of the day you have to score. Our PP last night missed Bw26. Also I totally agree about our consistency. We need to play for 60 minutes.

[Jesse]

Excellent game tonight. Would have been nice to win that one, but one mistake and they made us pay.

MS55 showed again tonight why this team needs him.

NE27 was all over the ice tonight and used his speed like he can. Felt bad for him on the OT penalty.

Love PL80 but another bad penalty tonight. If your going to be a leader, you can't take those type of penalties.

JM44 had another great game tonight. Even with the worst +/- for our D, he still is our best D man. +/- is over rated.

AL17 is just so good on the PK.

KC81, to bad he got covid, he was on fire before that.

He also gave away the puck and didn't skate back to the puck on a goal against - again.

aardvark is clearly going overboard, but his points against Scheif aren't wrong.

[Pigskin]

He also gave away the puck and didn't skate back to the puck on a goal against - again.

aardvark is clearly going overboard, but his points against Scheif aren't wrong.

No he is not wrong about MS55 habits. But he is wrong to think AL17 or CP91 can replace him as a top 2 C. 

JH12 is a -9 with 10 points. KV93 is a -8 with 3 points. I will take MS55 at -17 and and 69 points all day long.

You can teach a player to play D, you can't teach a play to score goals.   

[Pigskin]

Helli was excellent again tonight.

PP showed up tonight.

The line of 25/55/27 have played very well the last couple of game. To bad 55 got injured.

13/17/27 also had a strong game.

Nice to see 81 get going again. 81/80 are a force.

Nothing flashy out of 54, but he is rock steady and like to use his body.

[Jockitch]

a much needed Great Victory & indeed HellB had to be terrific

Samberg is definitely holding his own out there & again liked Barron's game, while #27 the Fly has really heated up

May prove costly as #55 is already ruled out of the game vs the Habs

Unfortunately the Stars won again

[blue_gold_84]

I fell like our PP needs to get better. Teams will let you pass the puck around the outside all night long. It looks great for the fans, but at the end of the day you have to score. Our PP last night missed Bw26. Also I totally agree about our consistency. We need to play for 60 minutes.

Special teams as a whole needs to be improved. That's on coaching/system, IMO.

He also gave away the puck and didn't skate back to the puck on a goal against - again.

aardvark is clearly going overboard, but his points against Scheif aren't wrong.

The only point that's accurate is his defensive play and using +/- to prop up the argument is foolish at best. The rest is just emotionally fueled conjecture at best.

That singular point is still not reason enough to justify moving him or asserting Dubois is the better centre, though. This team gets markedly worse without Scheifele.

Unfortunately the Stars won again

It doesn't matter. The Jets are done.

[theaardvark]

Nothing emotional about it, no conjecture at all.  MS55 is defensively a liability, no one disputes that, +/- is a measure of just how much a liability it is.  He hasn't always been, but something has changed (he was +45 in his career coming into this year).  Is he on a too offensive line?  Are D behind him more offensively minded?  I don't know, but in a league where 200' game is emphasized for your #1 guys, MS55 is no longer a 200' player. 

PLD80 is a physical leader, many lament his 100 PIM's, but interesting stat, he leads the league in penalties induced at 48.  So, his +/- PIM's is -4 if they were all 2 minors, if even 2 were majors, he's even stephen on PIMs...  but no one doubts his ability to play or lead.  Unfortunately there are no letters available for his chest.

Point production vs. salary, MS55 is a great deal.  Is that the issue?  Is he playing like he thinks a $6.125mil player should?  Does he think he needs $8-9mil a year to play all 200' of ice? 

Here is the other issue.  This offseason, we have to sign PLD80 to a new deal.  He is an RFA, but now is the time to lock him up longterm.  He is going to get more than MS55, guaranteed, even on a bridge.  So now you have a new issue with the locker room dynamic.  How does he "lead" even though the "#2C" is younger and getting more money than him?

Moving MS55 and BW26 as a package deal allows a completely new leadership team to take over.  It opens up cap space to sign PLD80 long term at a competitive rate.  You could also make a play for AC9 if you think CP91 is not ready to step into the #2 role, or if AL19 isn't ready to share that.  Even signing PS25 for a year as a placeholder while CP91 ramps up. 

Long term, changing the leadership of the team is a tough decision, but I think we've seen just how far MS55 and BW26 can take us.  Handing the reins over to PLD80(C), KC81(A), JM44(A) (so incredibly jazzed at his play of late) with the support team they have, I do not think MS55 and BW26 will be missed.

[Pigskin]

Nothing emotional about it, no conjecture at all.  MS55 is defensively a liability, no one disputes that, +/- is a measure of just how much a liability it is.  He hasn't always been, but something has changed (he was +45 in his career coming into this year).  Is he on a too offensive line?  Are D behind him more offensively minded?  I don't know, but in a league where 200' game is emphasized for your #1 guys, MS55 is no longer a 200' player. 

PLD80 is a physical leader, many lament his 100 PIM's, but interesting stat, he leads the league in penalties induced at 48.  So, his +/- PIM's is -4 if they were all 2 minors, if even 2 were majors, he's even stephen on PIMs...  but no one doubts his ability to play or lead.  Unfortunately there are no letters available for his chest.

Point production vs. salary, MS55 is a great deal.  Is that the issue?  Is he playing like he thinks a $6.125mil player should?  Does he think he needs $8-9mil a year to play all 200' of ice? 

Here is the other issue.  This offseason, we have to sign PLD80 to a new deal.  He is an RFA, but now is the time to lock him up longterm.  He is going to get more than MS55, guaranteed, even on a bridge.  So now you have a new issue with the locker room dynamic.  How does he "lead" even though the "#2C" is younger and getting more money than him?

Moving MS55 and BW26 as a package deal allows a completely new leadership team to take over.  It opens up cap space to sign PLD80 long term at a competitive rate.  You could also make a play for AC9 if you think CP91 is not ready to step into the #2 role, or if AL19 isn't ready to share that.  Even signing PS25 for a year as a placeholder while CP91 ramps up. 

Long term, changing the leadership of the team is a tough decision, but I think we've seen just how far MS55 and BW26 can take us.  Handing the reins over to PLD80(C), KC81(A), JM44(A) (so incredibly jazzed at his play of late) with the support team they have, I do not think MS55 and BW26 will be missed.

And the broken record continues. And it's AL17. The $3.75M we save when PS25 is gone will more then cover PL80.

Also who is this support team??

[blue_gold_84]

Dubois is a pending RFA with arbitration rights and the team has cap space to sign him long term should the two parties decide on that in the off-season. His re-signing has literally nothing to do with any other player on the team save solidifying the Jets' top 6 down the middle.

The mental gymnastics it takes to crap on two of team's top scorers, speculate on their motives, commitment, etc., while simultaneously suggesting the Jets "package" them in the hopes of expecting both to waive contract movement clauses with the Jets retaining salary to effectuate some absolute garbage trade is the pinnacle of ignorance. Which is to say nothing about the excuses made for the most penalized player on the team, especially when you consider the Jets' PK is well below the league average, and one who should also apparently be given the captaincy despite having never worn a letter in his professional career.

[Pigskin]

Dubois is a pending RFA with arbitration rights and the team has cap space to sign him long term should the two parties decide on that in the off-season. His re-signing has literally nothing to do with any other player on the team save solidifying the Jets' top 6 down the middle.

The mental gymnastics it takes to crap on two of team's top scorers, speculate on their motives, commitment, etc., while simultaneously suggesting the Jets "package" them in the hopes of expecting both to waive contract movement clauses with the Jets retaining salary to effectuate some absolute garbage trade is the pinnacle of ignorance. Which is to say nothing about the excuses made for the most penalized player on the team, especially when you consider the Jets' PK is well below the league average, and one who should also apparently be given the captaincy despite having never worn a letter in his professional career.

I would say if there was a change in our captains, Adam Lowry would have to be consider. Game in and game out the man works his tail off. Also when crap starts to happen AL17, is right there taking care of business. Probably the most respected Jet in the dressing room. 

[theaardvark]

Dubois is a pending RFA with arbitration rights and the team has cap space to sign him long term should the two parties decide on that in the off-season. His re-signing has literally nothing to do with any other player on the team save solidifying the Jets' top 6 down the middle.

The mental gymnastics it takes to crap on two of team's top scorers, speculate on their motives, commitment, etc., while simultaneously suggesting the Jets "package" them in the hopes of expecting both to waive contract movement clauses with the Jets retaining salary to effectuate some absolute garbage trade is the pinnacle of ignorance. Which is to say nothing about the excuses made for the most penalized player on the team, especially when you consider the Jets' PK is well below the league average, and one who should also apparently be given the captaincy despite having never worn a letter in his professional career.

We've tried a new coach, we've tried shaking up the lines... this team has never achieved its potential. 

Is it wrong to wonder if there is something wrong with the dynamic? 

I don't doubt BW26 has heart, and MS55 has talent.  And BW26's contract is unmoveable, and MS55's is value. 

In this league of young talent and leadership, I think a retool (from the GM down) is a course I could follow... watching this team continue the current course is getting old real quick. 

PLD80 has a passion that gets him penalties, sure, but also draws just as many of them.  If anything, I think that makes him a better candidate to lead.  Last thing you want in a leader is a milquetoast. 

I would say if there was a change in our captains, Adam Lowry would have to be consider. Game in and game out the man works his tail off. Also when crap starts to happen AL17, is right there taking care of business. Probably the most respected Jet in the dressing room. 

I agree, Lowry is a great consideration for C, and if we weren't handing the team over to PLD80 in the absence of BW26, he wold be my choice.  Probably a toss up for the other "A" between KC81 and AL17, really... no one is going anywhere near JM44's "A"...

[blue_gold_84]

We've tried a new coach...

Lowry is not a new coach. He's an interim head coach. Know the difference.

[theaardvark]

Lowry is not a new coach. He's an interim head coach. Know the difference.

"New" as in different... 

Do you think the "New" coach will be able to change the team dynamic with BW26 and MS55?

Will a new GM make a difference?