OC questions

[TecnoGenius]

The other factor whether its oline collapsing, oc, our receivers very seldom do our receivers come back for the ball We constantly see that against teams we play the reciever fakes long then comes back to the qb, its very difficult to stop

Yes, teams will kill us with the run 25Y downfield in man/match, then sprint back 13Y to LoS for an easy, uncontested 12Y.  The only way you stop that is pressure on the QB, because it takes 4-5s to develop.  Teams are destroying us with this, everywhere on the field, but HAM was especially doing it on the wide out.

And we can't do that because our QB barely has 2.7s every snap.  If you want to stop the DBs jumping every route, and you don't have time to wait the 4s for a come-back route, then the only other option is you need to chuck it behind the cheating DB a heck of a lot on double-move routes.  Like 30% of the time, which is something we haven't done for a loooong time.

There was a great pass Cody made, maybe the 1st TD of the last game?, where he had little time, rush was coming, and he just chucked up a rainbow on a timing/spot EZ corner route.  That also works when your OL isn't giving you time, and I have no idea why we can't do this.  Just practice the timing and spot, and the rainbow takes care of the no-protection problem because it's in the air so long you can throw after 2s instead of 3 or 4.  Put it far enough back and no one can INT it.

Why do other teams get nice things?

[TecnoGenius]

Have to give the Riders credit, despite their success this season they're being proactive by continuing to bring in a NFL cuts and evaluating them.  Bombers have a mostly new scouting staff this year, but so far haven't seen any evidence they're doing anything.

I'm convinced that going deep into the post-season is often a function of having the best scouting/DP ELC finds in the last 2 seasons.  Look at '23 MTL.  They won it all that year because of Ento/Dequoy/Uguak/Mack and others who are near top at their spot but on ELC.

Look at when we have the most success.  Mostly always when we had ELC guys who were making massive impact, and near top in the league.  Like Desjar, Schoen, Pokey, Holm, Nichols, Alford, Grant, etc.

ELC all-stars are like a magic CFL cheat code.  The more you have, the better your team, because then you can afford to stack your roster with top vet FAs to fill the other spots.

Who is our scout/DP ELC superstar this season?  Pokey got a post-NFL bump so he's probably not cheap anymore.  Wheatie counts, but he's not at the level of the guys listed above; neither is Clercius.  No one starting on D qualifies, I don't think.

I guess Vaval could be it for a potential ELC all-star, but he'll have to have a mega end to the season to earn it.

And that is a huge reason to why we're struggling.  Our scouts/DPs did (near) absolutely nothing this season.  And there's not enough money to fill all the holes with all-star FAs.  It's certainly killing us on the OL and DL...

So which team do you think has "won" the battle of the scouts/ELCs this season?

[jdrattops]

This is not hard to figure out, all you have to do is look at the frustration on our star players faces.  Players are also starting to in game fight with each other (Streveler and Demski in the Hammer).  So much like a hockey coach that loses his bench, do you make changes to your players or do you move on from the coach?  Jason Hogan should have "Never" been given this job, "Especially In A Home Grey Cup Season"! 

[Pete]

To me Hogans coaching deficiencies show up in the reciever group
The execution is lacking, in blocking, route running, and making adjustments when Zac is scrambling.
On a lot of our interceptions,as stated above, it seems like the reciever makes no move to come back to the ball or block out the defender.Also our schemes especially on short passes aren't resulting in openings, Zac is continually having to search for openings and having to drop in the perfect pass. Timing routes are rare.
 As an OC he makes a good running back coach.
 Have to wonder what Jackson is doing thru all of this.

[Blue In BC]

To me Hogans coaching deficiencies show up in the reciever group
The execution is lacking, in blocking, route running, and making adjustments when Zac is scrambling.
On a lot of our interceptions,as stated above, it seems like the reciever makes no move to come back to the ball or block out the defender.Also our schemes especially on short passes aren't resulting in openings, Zac is continually having to search for openings and having to drop in the perfect pass. Timing routes are rare.
 As an OC he makes a good running back coach.
 Have to wonder what Jackson is doing thru all of this.

Hogan didn't have much say in receivers that were recruited. So he's stuck with trying to get the best out of those that survived the final cut down date.

His inexperienced showed and I don't think he got the best out of what he had. It is fair to say he doesn't have the best receiver group in the CFL. Middle of pack overall? Other issues with OL and injuries to Collaros etc.

[Pete]

Hogan didn't have much say in receivers that were recruited. So he's stuck with trying to get the best out of those that survived the final cut down date.

His inexperienced showed and I don't think he got the best out of what he had. It is fair to say he doesn't have the best receiver group in the CFL. Middle of pack overall? Other issues with OL and injuries to Collaros etc.

no matter what hand hes dealt, he still has to coach and plan. Our receivers for the most part dont drop the ball,in fact they are better than most. Its in the other areas that we suffer which is a reflection of coaching and execution

[bunker]

no matter what hand hes dealt, he still has to coach and plan. Our receivers for the most part dont drop the ball,in fact they are better than most. Its in the other areas that we suffer which is a reflection of coaching and execution

We have a receivers coach, Billy Jean, who is new and not very experienced. But I think the major problem is talent, both on the receiving group and the O-line. Plus no receiving group will succeed with Strev at QB. With Zach, Demski and more recently Wilson were having some success, because they are better receivers.  Are we going to blame Marty Costello for the O-line problems? It's a talent issue there, and I think it's primarily a talent issue with our passing game.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

We have a receivers coach, Billy Jean, who is new and not very experienced. But I think the major problem is talent, both on the receiving group and the O-line. Plus no receiving group will succeed with Strev at QB. With Zach, Demski and more recently Wilson were having some success, because they are better receivers.  Are we going to blame Marty Costello for the O-line problems? It's a talent issue there, and I think it's primarily a talent issue with our passing game.

I think what's mostly lacking in the Bomber receiving corps was an initial vision, before any receivers are chosen desirable body types and skill-sets should be identified. Without a solid plan they ended up with a miss-mash of different skill sets that often over-lap and cancel each other out rather than compliment each other and enhance the abilities of the entire group.

Sask, BC and now the Stamps have all gotten bigger at receiver through careful drafting and recruitment and consequentially all 3 teams are on the rise because they provide their harried QB's with bigger targets to hit even when they're not always open. Another great attribute to seek is intelligent receivers that understand the entire route tree and can adjust their route to find the soft spots in the defence and help out the QB. Dressler and Woli were great examples, but there are a number of these receivers throughout the league they could acquire because their physical attributes are usually somewhat underwhelming.

The team has probably lost Schoen for good and Demski is in the last 2-3 years of his career, now is the time to plan ahead and develop a strategy to stock the future receiving corps with the right type of bodies.

[RebusRankin]

The only time Hogan was ever an OC in his career was at the high school level and frankly it shows.

[TecnoGenius]

Without a solid plan they ended up with a miss-mash of different skill sets that often over-lap and cancel each other out rather than compliment each other and enhance the abilities of the entire group.

So true.  All but Clercius are lanky/skinny Kenny-lite types.  You need at least 2-3 inside bruisers like Baily & Woli used to be.

However, I think we really did try in FA.  Reggie White would have been this.  Schoen is also capable, as a dual-purpose guy.  Maybe Sterns to a lesser extent.  All 3 are out.  So only Clercius should be in the flat taking massive hits on crossers.

So now we have Wheatie, Mitchell & Demski doing it.  Ouch.  Wheatie especially has shown he can handle it, but he's really not cut out for that long term.  Demski has always handled it, but he's not a huge guy and there's injury risk.

Yet we aren't adjusting our game plan to accommodate having 4 home-run guys.  I want more tosses beyond the route so our guys have to dive or it's on the turf (no INT possibility).  This should be easy to do since everyone and their dog cheats up short on our routes.  And stop underthrowing everything: chuck it all super deep to the corners in man where it's more likely to be beyond everyone, than short and getting picked.  If the ol' arm can't deliver, throw it .5 sec sooner and put more arc on it.

[blue_gold_84]

The only time Hogan was ever an OC in his career was at the high school level and frankly it shows.

It's pretty evident he's got no clue at the pro level. He's made ostensibly zero progress in his role as OC this season.

[theaardvark]

OUr scouting staff lost Rigmaden and Goveia from when we were titans of recruitment.

Can you ever replace those guys?  Its tough.  Maybe a Lapo, who has his fingers everywhere?  If only we could pay him what the job is worth, and not be hamstrung by FO $SMS

That is definately a side of this team that does not get noticed enough, for sure.  Walters can only sign and keep players that have made it to the club, MOS can only coach up the players Walters gives to him.

We need the group that gets the players into the system.  Or, we have to start buying players others have found.  And $SMS doesn't allow for much of that.

[Sway]

Oshea bringing up 2019 Strev is insulting and embarrassing for fans.

This coming from the guy who always says he's on to next week and doesn't look back at previous anything in football.

I can only suspect Wade Miller is not happy with the team and Osheas attitude.

I wish we could trade Oshea for Dinwiddie.  It's time for a fresh voice i think

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

So true.  All but Clercius are lanky/skinny Kenny-lite types.  You need at least 2-3 inside bruisers like Baily & Woli used to be.

However, I think we really did try in FA.  Reggie White would have been this.  Schoen is also capable, as a dual-purpose guy.  Maybe Sterns to a lesser extent.  All 3 are out.  So only Clercius should be in the flat taking massive hits on crossers.

So now we have Wheatie, Mitchell & Demski doing it.  Ouch.  Wheatie especially has shown he can handle it, but he's really not cut out for that long term.  Demski has always handled it, but he's not a huge guy and there's injury risk.

Yet we aren't adjusting our game plan to accommodate having 4 home-run guys.  I want more tosses beyond the route so our guys have to dive or it's on the turf (no INT possibility).  This should be easy to do since everyone and their dog cheats up short on our routes.  And stop underthrowing everything: chuck it all super deep to the corners in man where it's more likely to be beyond everyone, than short and getting picked.  If the ol' arm can't deliver, throw it .5 sec sooner and put more arc on it.

If I was a GM I'd be looking for Nik Lewis 2.0 an inside bruiser with good hands who loves to block that can run over DB's if not out run them, a Tyrone Jones on offence.

[theaardvark]

If I was a GM I'd be looking for Nik Lewis 2.0 an inside bruiser with good hands who loves to block that can run over DB's if not out run them, a Tyrone Jones on offence.

Like Rasheed Bailey?