GDT Ham at BC, Sun July 27, 6:00PM

[TecnoGenius]

Yep. That catch is insane. How is he not a receiver with hands like that?

Very first thing I said.  He seems halfway intelligent, so you can't fault his IQ.

But he does seem very tiny and skinny, which is never good for a REC.

I would train him up on basic routes anyway because then you need to dress one less backup REC!

Then again, Dequoy has insane speed and great hands and he's "just a DB" too.

There must be some reason the coaches insist these guys be DBs...

[TecnoGenius]

Watching this game I bet many of us were thinking we can't possibly keep up with either team, or any team playing like this.  Our O is basically back to the bad Drew Willy days, and I don't mean the brief winning streak.

But we did beat BC!  Twice!  And one with Rourke.  What was different??  OL.  We had are desired OL starting, minus Lofton.  That OL was stout.  With OL we can win.  Without, we will stink no matter who is at QB.

[TecnoGenius]

Wow.  Just look at what a difference Kenny being on your team makes.  This game is the clearest example I've ever seen of a single top REC dictating an entire game.

Kenny basically had zero stats.  But he dictated the entire game anyways.

Now, while this may have been an extreme example, just imagine how much subtle coverage and DB-cheating-up was going on to cover Kenny when he was in WPG... How much did that make the rest of our O more open?  Just like there was always one HAM REC wide open on every play in this game.

Think back to when we had on the field: Kenny, Schoen, Demski.  No wonder our O used to be so good!  It doesn't matter how each one is good, it matters how good they are together and how great your #1 is so everyone has to cover them.

Reminds me of Cornish, who admitted being the decoy for an entire GC they won.  The entire D had to cover Cornish or he would have won the game on his own.

Schoen, Pokey, Demski: if we can get that lineup going later this season, then maybe we'll have something.  Until then it'll be tight zone, suicide passes, no YAC, and getting anywhere will be a constant grind.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Wow.  Just look at what a difference Kenny being on your team makes.  This game is the clearest example I've ever seen of a single top REC dictating an entire game.

Kenny basically had zero stats.  But he dictated the entire game anyways.

Now, while this may have been an extreme example, just imagine how much subtle coverage and DB-cheating-up was going on to cover Kenny when he was in WPG... How much did that make the rest of our O more open?  Just like there was always one HAM REC wide open on every play in this game.

Think back to when we had on the field: Kenny, Schoen, Demski.  No wonder our O used to be so good!  It doesn't matter how each one is good, it matters how good they are together and how great your #1 is so everyone has to cover them.

Reminds me of Cornish, who admitted being the decoy for an entire GC they won.  The entire D had to cover Cornish or he would have won the game on his own.

Schoen, Pokey, Demski: if we can get that lineup going later this season, then maybe we'll have something.  Until then it'll be tight zone, suicide passes, no YAC, and getting anywhere will be a constant grind.

Agreed that a dominant outside receiver can help. However, it's not the primary issue this year. It's not in the top 5.

Consider:

We didn't have Lawler in 2022 and we were 15-3 and in the Grey Cup. Lawler played 16, 13, 12, 12 and 10 games during his seasons in Winnipeg. Since 2019, he's missed 5 or more games for every team he's played for.

We won with him in the lineup, we won with him out of the lineup. We won when he wasn't in Winnipeg. His on the field presence would help, you're not wrong, but he doesn't turn any of our last three losses into wins. Not even close.

[J5V]

For those that don't like the accidental DPI, keep in mind that they've been calling that oopsie foot whack thing a lot this season.  And other seasons.  This isn't new.

If you're the REC and your foot taps the DB shin in stride and you fall, that's ADPI every time.  However, there are rules about whether the DB is alongside / ahead / behind the REC, I think, that may have to be examined here.

I'm sure command was watching on this critical end-of-game play to make sure it was called right.

The funny thing is: HAM wastes its timeout then a couple of plays later they maybe got burned on an iffy call.  Then BC wastes their last TO and like the very next play they get the iffy ADPI.  LOL... goes to show, hold that challenge!

Imagine losing a playoff game to a desperate team that edges you out on the second last play in the game. In that game we are in a prevent D and throw a blanket over the other team's receivers, do absolutely nothing wrong, but the desperate receiver intentionally tangles legs with your DB and out comes the flag followed by the winning score. How would you feel about "ADPI"?

[TecnoGenius]

Imagine losing a playoff game to a desperate team that edges you out on the second last play in the game. In that game we are in a prevent D and throw a blanket over the other team's receivers, do absolutely nothing wrong, but the desperate receiver intentionally tangles legs with your DB and out comes the flag followed by the winning score. How would you feel about "ADPI"?

Pretty sure WPG got dinged on a stupid iffy ADPI this season already, and yes, I thought it was stupid.  BUT since they have been really good about being consistent with these trip-ups, I'm fine with it.  It's the consistency that is key, and that's often what is missing in CFL reffing.

So DBs will have to learn to maybe be a little farther away from the REC, or use the behind/aside/ahead variations intelligently so they have an "out".

This issue is really no different than the "REC mugging DB" trick that some players/teams employ to get a fake free IC or DPI call.  Those aggravate me even more, and I think the league needs to clearly define mugging and have a severe penalty for it.  It's no different than a fake flop / embellishment.

[TecnoGenius]

Agreed that a dominant outside receiver can help. However, it's not the primary issue this year. It's not in the top 5.

Consider:

We didn't have Lawler in 2022 and we were 15-3 and in the Grey Cup. Lawler played 16, 13, 12, 12 and 10 games during his seasons in Winnipeg. Since 2019, he's missed 5 or more games for every team he's played for.

We won with him in the lineup, we won with him out of the lineup. We won when he wasn't in Winnipeg. His on the field presence would help, you're not wrong, but he doesn't turn any of our last three losses into wins. Not even close.

Ya, I have to say you're right about all of that.  But having Kenny certainly couldn't HURT.  And when we get "closer" he would be the type of player that makes the difference.

As for 2022, that was Schoen's league-leading year.  And Ellingson was a top threat too until he got hurt.  Add in the usual suspects and it was a great corps.  So Schoen kinda was our Kenny that year.  That was precisely the plan for this year!  But Schoen had to have knee problems again...

I still wonder though how much more "open things" was due to Kenny, when he was in, after seeing this last HAM game.  Oh ya, and I think Scott and BLM are using Kenny way more effectively than we did in '24.  It helps that Bo can throw 60Y easy.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Pretty sure WPG got dinged on a stupid iffy ADPI this season already, and yes, I thought it was stupid.  BUT since they have been really good about being consistent with these trip-ups, I'm fine with it.  It's the consistency that is key, and that's often what is missing in CFL reffing.

So DBs will have to learn to maybe be a little farther away from the REC, or use the behind/aside/ahead variations intelligently so they have an "out".

This issue is really no different than the "REC mugging DB" trick that some players/teams employ to get a fake free IC or DPI call.  Those aggravate me even more, and I think the league needs to clearly define mugging and have a severe penalty for it.  It's no different than a fake flop / embellishment.

I think Accidental Interference is a dumb penalty call, but if they're going to call it why not also call it on the receiver when the DB is the one that gets knocked down, allowing the receiver free passage to the endzone, as happened with Parker in an earlier game this year.

[TecnoGenius]

I think Accidental Interference is a dumb penalty call, but if they're going to call it why not also call it on the receiver when the DB is the one that gets knocked down, allowing the receiver free passage to the endzone, as happened with Parker in an earlier game this year.

Pretty sure it was Bridges or Bonds, not Parker.  And pretty sure these are the plays where our guy was pushed forward/down into the turf by the REC (worse than "accidental").

Ya, the RECs definitely get many advantages by the rules and the way the refs call them.  Then again, the league wants "more O".

I also hate when a REC egregiously picks/rubs a DB and then the DB gets called for IC.  That's OPI, not IC!  Once in a blue moon the refs get it right.

However, we do need some way to make sure the DBs don't just try to get their legs real darn close to REC legs to accidentally-on-purpose cause an ADPI.  If that was allowed scott-free every time then DBs would just go "accidentally" trip everyone all the time.

Right now the pendulum has swung to 90% DB's fault / 10% REC's fault.  Maybe it needs to be more balance again.  The NFL seems to balance it a bit better.  In the CFL the DBs need to be saints.

[J5V]

This issue is really no different than the "REC mugging DB" trick that some players/teams employ to get a fake free IC or DPI call.

Riders did it to us last season and I've seen them do it this season to other teams so it's being coached into their game. I believe it's not difficult to do with a bit of practice. Watch for it when Riders are second and long/extra-long. Even if it's only 5 yards off the line it's an automatic first down. I have no idea whether or not we are incorporating it into our game but we should.

[TecnoGenius]

Riders did it to us last season and I've seen them do it this season to other teams so it's being coached into their game. I believe it's not difficult to do with a bit of practice. Watch for it when Riders are second and long/extra-long. Even if it's only 5 yards off the line it's an automatic first down. I have no idea whether or not we are incorporating it into our game but we should.

We absolutely should.  However, that assumes your unit is getting job #1 and job #2 down pat, like "catching", "routes", and "blocking".  Mugging is like job #5 and 7D chess.  I'm not sure anyone in our club has the mental capacity to take it to that level.  We're sometimes lucky if we even can get to job #3.  Besides, we "have morals" (whatever that means in football), unlike the "win at all costs" up'n'comers.

After all, everyone (except their home fans) does hate the muggers and embellishers...

C'est la vie.

[J5V]

We absolutely should.  However, that assumes your unit is getting job #1 and job #2 down pat, like "catching", "routes", and "blocking".  Mugging is like job #5 and 7D chess.  I'm not sure anyone in our club has the mental capacity to take it to that level.  We're sometimes lucky if we even can get to job #3.  Besides, we "have morals" (whatever that means in football), unlike the "win at all costs" up'n'comers.

After all, everyone (except their home fans) does hate the muggers and embellishers...

C'est la vie.

You know the old saying, "If you're not cheating you ain't trying". It would be naive not to realize that every team maps trends of what can and cannot be gotten away with on the fringe edge of the rules. All teams hold, for example, but you have to know for how long, when, and where on the field to do it. As a fan I can accept that as long as it's applied fairly by the officials for both teams which is not always the case. 

[dd]

You know the old saying, "If you're not cheating you ain't trying". It would be naive not to realize that every team maps trends of what can and cannot be gotten away with on the fringe edge of the rules. All teams hold, for example, but you have to know for how long, when, and where on the field to do it. As a fan I can accept that as long as it's applied fairly by the officials for both teams which is not always the case.

For holding to be called, it has to impact the play, so if there's a jet sweep going left and your right tackle is holding the DE, that isn't going to get called, however LT holding De on same play should  get called every time

[Big Daddy]

For holding to be called, it has to impact the play, so if there's a jet sweep going left and your right tackle is holding the DE, that isn't going to get called, however LT holding De on same play gets called every time

I wish it were that simple when the rule is applied by the officials.

[TecnoGenius]

For holding to be called, it has to impact the play, so if there's a jet sweep going left and your right tackle is holding the DE, that isn't going to get called, however LT holding De on same play gets called every time

Haha, not with CFL refs.  Half they let go because they don't deem it "holding enough".  Half the remainder they don't see at all because they are blind.

Holding is probably the most aggravating penalty because there's so much holding all the time, even right at the play, that goes uncalled; yet they do call some sometimes and it'll really screw up a drive.  There's really not much rhyme or reason to it as it's basically a 100% subjective thing.

You just have to hope there's no bias, or just bad luck, against your team that day.