We have JJ on staff, brought in after Hogan was named, and you have to think that hire as QB coach had to be made with the idea a veteran ex-OC would be essential in assisting Hogan.
IF, as some here conjecture, that MOS is not happy with Hogan, how hard is it to flip the positions or JJ and Hogan?
Is it that time yet?
No, gotta give Hogan more time imo but has been a few bumps to be sure
I think lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball is the limiting factor. Hogan is also an issue but we aren't going change at this point in the season. Whether we make a change during the off season is a TBD.
Jackson did have more success previously so I wouldn't rule him out though.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 14, 2025, 06:25:16 PMI think lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball is the limiting factor. Hogan is also an issue but we aren't going change at this point in the season. Whether we make a change during the off season is a TBD.
Jackson did have more success previously so I wouldn't rule him out though.
Hard to say if Jackson was a success in Edmonton, he did ok working with MBT but didn't seem to get a lot out of Ford. He was also there as OC under Chris Jones for a number of years prior and did little to elevate the offence or QB play, I think he's more of a get along, go along guy, don't rock the boat kinda guy than he is a game changer.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 14, 2025, 08:16:46 PMHard to say if Jackson was a success in Edmonton, he did ok working with MBT but didn't seem to get a lot out of Ford. He was also there under Chris Jones for a number of years prior and did little to elevate the QB play, I think he's more of a "get along and go along guy" than he is a game changer.
Say what you want but the Elks scored 504 points and were the highest in the west division. Only the Argos scored more with 514. The Elks were always behind so they did score a lot of points in garbage time. Regardless, they score them.
Compared to Hogan where we aren't scoring enough. We're last or close to last for teams having played 13 games.
Pick your poison.
pretty hard to make any sort of accurate suggestions on roles without knowing what their roles actually are / maybe we are seeing a JJ offense already??
play calling hasn't been great, the execution hasn't been great, we are still having long stretches of ineptitude during games and players missing assignments.
we are well past halfway so newness is less of a factor.
protect Zach needs to be the number one thing as like it or not: no Zach = no wins
unfortunately i don't think there is a "fix the offense" button that can be pushed for instant results.
Quote from: The Zipp on September 14, 2025, 11:39:17 PMpretty hard to make any sort of accurate suggestions on roles without knowing what their roles actually are / maybe we are seeing a JJ offense already??
play calling hasn't been great, the execution hasn't been great, we are still having long stretches of ineptitude during games and players missing assignments.
we are well past halfway so newness is less of a factor.
protect Zach needs to be the number one thing as like it or not: no Zach = no wins
unfortunately i don't think there is a "fix the offense" button that can be pushed for instant results.
Except that Hogan is in the booth and we see that Jackson is on the sideline not calling plays.
Which brings to mind something I forgot to mention earlier. Not once did I see Strev use an Ipad or talk to a coach or even to Zach. I did see him talk to himself. Why? At the very least after a pic or busted play everyone wants to see what happened and discuss.
OShea just wouldn't do
it,
A) hed have to admit he made a mistake
B) his loyalty to everyone around him despite what is needed prevents it you just have to look at our roster for vets that are past prime
Quote from: theaardvark on September 14, 2025, 05:33:13 PMWe have JJ on staff, brought in after Hogan was named, and you have to think that hire as QB coach had to be made with the idea a veteran ex-OC would be essential in assisting Hogan.
IF, as some here conjecture, that MOS is not happy with Hogan, how hard is it to flip the positions or JJ and Hogan?
Is it that time yet?
Yes, it is time.
Our play calling is predictable and defenses are jumping routes before our recievers made their cuts and our pass pro if horrible. The change should have been made weeks ago, but I am sure MOS is letting Hogan work himself out of this, which he isn't capable of doing. Our offense is painful to watch, especially the points given up after turnovers, we have to lead the league in that category. Tough to win games when A) offense doesn't score enough and B) turns the ball over giving the opponent easy points on the board. Time to change things up.
Quote from: The Zipp on September 14, 2025, 11:39:17 PMpretty hard to make any sort of accurate suggestions on roles without knowing what their roles actually are / maybe we are seeing a JJ offense already??
play calling hasn't been great, the execution hasn't been great, we are still having long stretches of ineptitude during games and players missing assignments.
we are well past halfway so newness is less of a factor.
protect Zach needs to be the number one thing as like it or not: no Zach = no wins
unfortunately i don't think there is a "fix the offense" button that can be pushed for instant results.
Best post of the week. Someone thinking about more than just what is in front of their noses. Refreshing.
MOS has already said that Jarious (and "everyone else") is providing input and help to Hogan. He is probably underplaying the whole situation. As you said, this may already be a Jarious O. Maybe Jarious is the failure, not Hogan.
We also need to differentiate 2 things:
1) play calling in game
2) play design / scheme
Quote from: Waffler on Today at 12:00:40 AMExcept that Hogan is in the booth and we see that Jackson is on the sideline not calling plays.
Hogan may be doing #1, for sure. But I think our big problem is #2. Our design &
scheme is lazy and braindead. Demski didn't get INTed because of the play call, or even the execution, it was because we think that straightforward simple curl is going to work when everyone knows that's what we're doing on that down and distance and there is 0% we are going over the top.
That's scheme, and that very well might fall equally (or more) on Jarious' shoulders.
As for execution, we have a very good REC corps, even without Schoen. Everyone except Mitchell (and before him Sterns) is 2nd year or more. They know the WPG way of doing things. No excuses. And even Mitchell has talent.
I actually put very little blame on the current starting RECs because they are being set up to fail with the crap schemes. And it's starting to show on their faces: they are losing faith in the system. And if that happens, it's all over. MOS/coords need to make major changes to scheme and coord situation if they don't want to not only lose all the time, but
risk losing our best players in FA when they have lost all the "fun" and are sick of losing with no hope in the system.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 14, 2025, 06:25:16 PMI think lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball is the limiting factor.
I think we have one of the best REC corps in the league, even without Schoen. Add in our IR guys like Sterns and we even have good depth, too.
Pokey, Demski, Wheatie, and even Mitchell are more than capable of blowing you up with a deep home run. They are all fast and shift, and have good hands.
If Zach had protection and our scheme wasn't complete garbage, I think we'd be lighting up D's like we're used to seeing in previous seasons.
That's why it's so disappointing. So much easier to just say "weak RECs". But it's not true.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on Today at 02:41:28 AMI think we have one of the best REC corps in the league, even without Schoen. Add in our IR guys like Sterns and we even have good depth, too.
Pokey, Demski, Wheatie, and even Mitchell are more than capable of blowing you up with a deep home run. They are all fast and shift, and have good hands.
If Zach had protection and our scheme wasn't complete garbage, I think we'd be lighting up D's like we're used to seeing in previous seasons.
That's why it's so disappointing. So much easier to just say "weak RECs". But it's not true.
I'm not happy with our offensive production, and I think Hogan has to wear some share of the blame, but I'm not convinced the major problem is a "garbage scheme". I think most CFL teams run alot of the same route trees, and passing plays. Success often depends on execution. That is on getting time in the pocket (something we have not been giving our QBs alot of the time), the QB making the right read (Zach is a veteran who is pretty good at this), an accurate throw (Zach is not perfect, but not bad most of the time), and the receiver's skills in term of either finding the soft spot in the zone, or in man coverage beating a DB with a move or outstanding catch. Demski has had alot of success this year, because he is a smart veteran receiver who knows what to do to get open, including finding that soft space in the zone. He's also one of the few receivers who can actually get some YAC yards also. Wilson since he came back has had some success also. The other receivers have struggled to produce. None of our receivers are going to give you the Kenny Lawler 50/50 ball on a regular basis. I think if you gave Hogan the 2019 O-line (Bryant and Neufeld 6 years younger, Desjarlais at Guard, Jamarcus at RT, can't believe how good that line was), and threw in one of a healthy Schoen or Lawler, this offence would be hugely successful. Strev cannot read a defence and cannot pass. He's set up to fail.
Hogan studied under Buck for 3 years, has Jackson to mentor him, and was a coach for the Als for two years, and in college for 4. He was also a QB in college. He may not be the best OC in the league, but the idea that he is clueless, or does not understand rudimentary offensive football is a stretch. I think the major problem is talent related, with the OC a secondary concern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD7jjdYJ0hA
This is Lapo's commentary on our offence against Ottawa. Had a lot off complementary things to say. Yeah, he's not going to diss Hogan in a video, but I don't get the sense from him that Hogan is clueless when watching this video. It also points out how often the success of a play depends on the QB's read, and the receiver running a smart route.
I'll just add that turnovers have been a huge problem with our offense, particularly interceptions. And a lot of that is on Zach. He's lost some arm strength, I think his decision making is worse (? Concussion related) he's under more pressure in the pocket, and he's trying to make something happen when there's nothing there, which is partly on our receivers not getting open.
Streveller is not the QB of the future. Might as well, see what we have in Wilson.
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on Today at 04:09:22 AMStreveller is not the QB of the future. Might as well, see what we have in Wilson.
I totally agree. Not sure why they even resigned Streveler in the off season as he looked finished last season already.
Even if zach comes back, this team still may be done for this season. He's getting bad pass protection and mediocre running game to keep the heat off.
The issue(s) are complicated.
- We are dealing with injuries to, and aging offensive and defensive lines,
- An aging starting quarterback who has been also fighting injuries,
- No clear cut indication who is qualified to the "next starting QB'
- A new Offensive Coordinator,
- The recruitment of several new players who have yet to prove themselves,
All of which puts both the offence and defence in question.
The good news is we remain in the playoff battle.
But there is work to be done, questions to be asked, legitimate concerns to be addressed now and in the future.