Zach's Back

[Tecno]

You're doing the same thing as dd, you're ascribing things to him without seeing him play.

Uh, he got basically an entire half in the ham game Zach went out, and a quarter in the bc game. That's quite a lot of looks for a first year kid.

Did he keep us in games and show dynamism like strevy did in his first first year games? Nope.

Even that Love kid in the game last night showed some flashes. Where's elgs flash?

I'm not saying he can't or won't. Just saying he didn't. All of us would have died for first year strevy to be in last game instead of elgs.

[Jesse]

You actively said he couldn't, but whatever.

I'll attribute Elgs' half of football to MOS' "lack of balls". When he can only throw to the line of scrimmage, hard to show what you got.

That said, he shouldn't be on the field at all this year unless something has gone horribly wrong - like last time.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

TLB is right. He's one of those limbo qbs, with no real pigeonhole. He could end up looking more like Cody or powell or arbuckle. I guess that would be best case. But he'll never be fast twitch mobile like Alexander and Rourke... And those guys are the ones getting everyone excited.

The good thing is, even a Cody can win a cup it seems!

But there may not be the option of taking forever to dev a pocket passer in today's CFL.

I don't think Elgersma is as mobile as any of those QB's including Brown or Collaros, all QB's mentioned so far are fairly light on their feet and prepared to flea when the pocket breaks down, Elgersma just stands there willing to absorb punishment.  My QB comparisons would include Taylor Cornelius and Drew Willy, both had good arms but had no ability to scramble when protection broke down. Funny thing is Cornelius could run like a deer once he hit open field and the little DB's could never catch up to him.

[Sway]

I would put Elgs mobility at about what Bo Levi is now at 37 years old. So not too good

So definitely not slippery or elusive like the best QBs in the league are these days

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Zach - 21 of 31, 222 yards, 0 TDs 0 INTs

Maier - 28 of 43 for 314 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT.

Neither looked great. That first deep throw by Zach resulted in laughter from the section. He just doesn't have an arm anymore. It's all over but the hall of fame celebration for Collaros.

[Tecno]

You actively said he couldn't, but whatever.

Sure: Couldn't NOW.  Might LATER.  So I guess we're in full agreement then, based on the other stuff you said about Elgs.

[theaardvark]

So, we were worried about Zach's neck, but the title of the thread was prophetic.

Zach took a blow to the back that looked bad.  He came back in later, but after a day or two, will that blow start to manifest?  As well as playing the rest of the game with it.

[Tecno]

Because when Zach comes out, it's always precautionary. He could always go back in. Hit the salts, suck it up, and go back in like, you know, every other qb.

They all feel like garbage after a hit like that. It sucks. But it's your job. If you're not concussed, you stay in.

No doubt Zach's age and history make him feel worse than a younger guy, but it's still a choice to exit the game.

We all knew Zach was going out another 4 weeks with that hit yesterday. Everyone. And everyone was saying that's the end of him. And it was.

Then Zach realized all this, had a moment of clarity, and decided if he still wants to play in the CFL, he has to just suck it up. Like every other qb. Because if he went out another 4, then we'd all be right, and the planning for his retirement party would begin.

[Jesse]

Because when Zach comes out, it's always precautionary. He could always go back in. Hit the salts, suck it up, and go back in like, you know, every other qb.

They all feel like garbage after a hit like that. It sucks. But it's your job. If you're not concussed, you stay in.

No doubt Zach's age and history make him feel worse than a younger guy, but it's still a choice to exit the game.

We all knew Zach was going out another 4 weeks with that hit yesterday. Everyone. And everyone was saying that's the end of him. And it was.

Then Zach realized all this, had a moment of clarity, and decided if he still wants to play in the CFL, he has to just suck it up. Like every other qb. Because if he went out another 4, then we'd all be right, and the planning for his retirement party would begin.

This is a pretty borderline post. Ignorantly speculating on a guys health with his concussion history and telling him to suck it up.

He just missed 4 games. Seems a bit more serious than some smelling salts.

[Tecno]

This is a pretty borderline post. Ignorantly speculating on a guys health with his concussion history and telling him to suck it up.

But we all know it's true.  That's why Zach's IR report is always "neck", not "concussion" or "seeing stars".  It's a nebulous indefinable thing that Zach & the doctors can make any call they want on whether he's good to go or not.  The sum total of diagnosis is "how do you feel"?

But whatever, I don't care, let Zach make his choice.  He's earned that right.  I'm one of his biggest supporters.  I think at this stage if he still wants to have a shot, and also want another year in '27, he needs to just suck it up and ignore the damage.  The only other choice is retire.  He can't be in 0.5 games, out 4, in 0.5 games, out 4.  We all saw how teams will just gun for the concussion hit all game every game.  So dirty, but it's the smart play.  Knock Zach out and you'll beat WPG 50% more often.  I promise you that's what's coming when we meet SSK.

I think Trevor Harris made the exact decision I'm talking about.  That zombie-walker hit last season was 100% concussion, and I don't care what anybody says.  But he got right up and stayed in, and won the game.  And didn't miss the next game.  Because he knew it's near the end and he has to do extraordinary things to win the cup (or have a job).  So he decided his health came after winning.  Just as 99% of young QBs do.  This is the decision Zach needs to make.  And I think we just saw it... he did.  And he chose playing/winning.

Otherwise: explain to me why Zach came back in?  When has Zach EVER come back in after a hit like that.  I watched the 4 weeks ago hit and they are basically the same hit, except the one this week was WORSE.  So how do you explain it, other than a conscious choice to choose not to sit out the next 4 weeks for "precaution".

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

But we all know it's true.  That's why Zach's IR report is always "neck", not "concussion" or "seeing stars".  It's a nebulous indefinable thing that Zach & the doctors can make any call they want on whether he's good to go or not.  The sum total of diagnosis is "how do you feel"?

But whatever, I don't care, let Zach make his choice.  He's earned that right.  I'm one of his biggest supporters.  I think at this stage if he still wants to have a shot, and also want another year in '27, he needs to just suck it up and ignore the damage.  The only other choice is retire.  He can't be in 0.5 games, out 4, in 0.5 games, out 4.  We all saw how teams will just gun for the concussion hit all game every game.  So dirty, but it's the smart play.  Knock Zach out and you'll beat WPG 50% more often.  I promise you that's what's coming when we meet SSK.

I think Trevor Harris made the exact decision I'm talking about.  That zombie-walker hit last season was 100% concussion, and I don't care what anybody says.  But he got right up and stayed in, and won the game.  And didn't miss the next game.  Because he knew it's near the end and he has to do extraordinary things to win the cup (or have a job).  So he decided his health came after winning.  Just as 99% of young QBs do.  This is the decision Zach needs to make.  And I think we just saw it... he did.  And he chose playing/winning.

Otherwise: explain to me why Zach came back in?  When has Zach EVER come back in after a hit like that.  I watched the 4 weeks ago hit and they are basically the same hit, except the one this week was WORSE.  So how do you explain it, other than a conscious choice to choose not to sit out the next 4 weeks for "precaution".

I agree, Zach knew if he didn't go back in, his job as the starter was in deep jeopardy, another 3-4 weeks off and management contemplates hard decisions.  I was surprised and disturbed when he returned so quickly because I thought Brown was playing quite well. Haven't seen Zach play with that level of desperation in a long time, with how this season has been going he's got to know he's one big hit away from missing the playoffs and the end of the line.

[Big Daddy]

I agree, Zach knew if he didn't go back in, his job as the starter was in deep jeopardy, another 3-4 weeks off and management contemplates hard decisions.  I was surprised and disturbed when he returned so quickly because I thought Brown was playing quite well. Haven't seen Zach play with that level of desperation in a long time, with how this season has been going he's got to know he's one big hit away from missing the playoffs and the end of the line.

Agree with most of this from both of you, I just don't think we know Zach took the same damage with this hit that he had from the last one that took him out 4 games.  It is speculation at best.  Yes this hit looked worse, it's just impossible to know what it did compared to the previous one. 

This one could've knocked the wind out of him much more, but spared the whiplash that creates the neck issues.  That would make sense since he did come back fairly quickly. 

Of course it could be he decided to throw caution to the wind to give him a bit of an extension on his playing and not retiring.  But nothing we saw with the hit can be seen as evidence of that, so it is all speculation.

[Tecno]

Of course it could be he decided to throw caution to the wind to give him a bit of an extension on his playing and not retiring.  But nothing we saw with the hit can be seen as evidence of that, so it is all speculation.

Of course, the whole forum is speculation, except for the small amount of actual news reporting.  But it's useful to deal in the realm of "probable" and common sense.

But we all know that if you put your pinky on Zach and going "doink!" he goes out of the game.  We all know it.  That's why we hold our breathes everytime anyone touches him at all.  But that didn't happen this time.

I'm going to do my normal rewatch/grading of the game and when I get to the hit I'll do a deep dive and compare with the hit 1 month ago.  We should be able to tell frame-by-frame how similar they were, and how Zach's neck reacted.  That should help clear things up a bit.

P.S. in response to another post: I'm not telling Zach to "suck it up" for me, I'm telling Zach to suck it up if he wants to keep playing and/or have a last GC shot.  It's wholly his choice, and I won't begrudge him either way.  It's just that it's a choice he HAS to now make.