Stop being run first

[Blue In BC]

Maybe, I'm not going to rewatch it but I believe you. I would suggest that the plan for them was simply to come down hill and do that as a first motion in certain looks/play calls/situations though. Not that they are identifying some code that we leave that secretly means runs. Invariably, there's wasn't much downside to doing so was there? Everyone's gonna keep doing it.

The thing is that teams know stopping Oliveria is the key to beating the Bombers. We're still a run heavy team so odds are good in guessing run in certain situations.

The backside of that is our receivers overall are not the best of the best and our OL doesn't allow time to find them.

[Balticfox]

I say we stop being a run first, run mostly team.

I think we, and Brady, would do better if we ran more like Montreal, Sask, or Hamilton. They don't go to the run on most first downs. They keep you guessing.

The key is indeed to keep the opposition Defence guessing.

 

[Blueforlife]

Disagree with the premise of this thread.

We are a run 1st team and it's proven to be successful as long as our OL is decent.  It will slowly improve.  Terrible last game but when healthy it will gel and improve.

I want to run more, not less.  Bombs and Bbb is all we need.  Oh wait, a better OL and our D to play at least average.

Our run game is our strength, reducing it would bring more pain than gain.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Zach is still a better, more dynamic QB than T.Harris.  And T.Harris and his O are arguably the best or 2nd best in the league right now.  If you had to pick who is in the cup right now, it's SSK v HAM.  (EDM will fade away, as always.)

My point is, if T.Harris can look like a world beater using a 90% short game... why can't we?  Can't blame the RECs, SSK often started 4 NAT RECs and still kicked butt.

Why aren't we re-imagining Zach's game like they did Trevor?  If we ran our run game more like SSK, we might do better too.  They run a lot, but still aren't a "run first, run mostly" team.

Not saying Zach can't be reprogrammed but Trevor Harris has been playing that quick throwing short game since his early days in Ottawa.  I can remember games he'd string 10-15 completions together in a row without an incompletion, the ball was gone as soon as it touched his hands. The book on Harris was to rattle his cage a few times and he would crumble into dust, and he always did, until he got to Sask. where they built him a solid line that protected him from season wrecking injury.  They did it once, I'm praying they can't do it twice.

[Blueforlife]

Zach is still a better, more dynamic QB than T.Harris.  And T.Harris and his O are arguably the best or 2nd best in the league right now.  If you had to pick who is in the cup right now, it's SSK v HAM.  (EDM will fade away, as always.)

My point is, if T.Harris can look like a world beater using a 90% short game... why can't we?  Can't blame the RECs, SSK often started 4 NAT RECs and still kicked butt.

Why aren't we re-imagining Zach's game like they did Trevor?  If we ran our run game more like SSK, we might do better too.  They run a lot, but still aren't a "run first, run mostly" team.

Zach isn't Harris.  Harris always was high completion %.  We don't want dink and dunk.  Seen that with Nichols and while I liked him as QB it didn't bring us success in the big show.  Agree that it's the HAM and Sask show.  But there are other not far behind.  Sask too a hit last week, this week will be telling.  Hammy looks very deadly with Bo near his peak.

Not saying Zach can't be reprogrammed but Trevor Harris has been playing that quick throwing short game since his early days in Ottawa.  I can remember games he'd string 10-15 completions together in a row without an incompletion, the ball was gone as soon as it touched his hands. The book on Harris was to rattle his cage a few times and he would crumble into dust, and he always did, until he got to Sask. where they built him a solid line that protected him from season wrecking injury.  They did it once, I'm praying they can't do it twice.

I'm saying Zach shouldn't be reprogrammed.

[Tecno]

I'm saying Zach shouldn't be reprogrammed.

They he may be in trouble of being relegated to the trash heap.  If he wants to keep playing, he has to find a way to get better at the T.Harris short game, and he has to find a way to get more zip on the short pass.

In the end it may not matter, as he clearly is close to his idea of retirement.  He never has stated he wants to play 5 more years.

[Tecno]

Zach isn't Harris.  Harris always was high completion %.  We don't want dink and dunk.  Seen that with Nichols and while I liked him as QB it didn't bring us success in the big show.

That's a thought... would we be doing better right now with a pre-injury Nichols and his good short game, management and throw-aways?  Hmmm.  I'm not even kidding.  Unless you have the extremely mobile stud QB these days it seems you can only succeed with the T.Harris style O.  That's what EDM is doing too.

[Tecno]

The book on Harris was to rattle his cage a few times and he would crumble into dust, and he always did, until he got to Sask

CGY whacked him real good two times and Harris crumbled yet again.  The old adage seems to still be true.  It didn't always work last season, but maybe with another year under his belt he's back to being fragile.

[Tecno]

Watching on TV I can predict they are going to run most often. It's more than a gut feeling and I'd say a little like film study of tendencies, formations and down / distance.

I try based on formation & pre-snap motion and I only guess run/pass on us right about 66% of the time.  Like I said, EDM was hitting like 90%.

Yes, you can predict WPG is going to run almost every first down (except we don't) and load the box every first down... but that doesn't explain all the times EDM guessed we WEREN'T running on first down.  The LBs do 2 distinct things pre-snap depending on their guess, and they almost always guessed right.  It's weird.

I'm curious to see if HAM makes it this obvious, and has this much success with the guess.  This could just be superiority of EDM film study/prep, or it could be something every team has figured out against us.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I try based on formation & pre-snap motion and I only guess run/pass on us right about 66% of the time.  Like I said, EDM was hitting like 90%.

Yes, you can predict WPG is going to run almost every first down (except we don't) and load the box every first down... but that doesn't explain all the times EDM guessed we WEREN'T running on first down.  The LBs do 2 distinct things pre-snap depending on their guess, and they almost always guessed right.  It's weird.

I'm curious to see if HAM makes it this obvious, and has this much success with the guess.  This could just be superiority of EDM film study/prep, or it could be something every team has figured out against us.

They're not guessing on the snap. They're just executing based on film study and tendency. And playing down and in doesn't really hurt them much because Collaros can't extend plays like he used to so it's hard to make them pay for it.

[Tecno]

They're not guessing on the snap. They're just executing based on film study and tendency. And playing down and in doesn't really hurt them much because Collaros can't extend plays like he used to so it's hard to make them pay for it.

Then I'm not explaining it well.  I'll see if I can yank out some clips to show what the LBs do in run vs RPO pass, before they should have any right knowing what it will be.

Another approach: watch EDM O or SSK O.  Most plays are RPO with a playfake or actual hand off to their RB.  Can you guess before the real/fake handoff is done if it's run or pass?  I sure as heck can't.  I have zero idea what T.Harris and Cody were going to decide on.  And neither do our LBs!  They are frozen in place until they know.  THAT is how it's supposed to work.  EDM's LBs weren't ever frozen.  They just knew.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Then I'm not explaining it well.  I'll see if I can yank out some clips to show what the LBs do in run vs RPO pass, before they should have any right knowing what it will be.

Another approach: watch EDM O or SSK O.  Most plays are RPO with a playfake or actual hand off to their RB.  Can you guess before the real/fake handoff is done if it's run or pass?  I sure as heck can't.  I have zero idea what T.Harris and Cody were going to decide on.  And neither do our LBs!  They are frozen in place until they know.  THAT is how it's supposed to work.  EDM's LBs weren't ever frozen.  They just knew.

I'm not really sure what you think you can see from the TSN angle really matters. Linebackers are at field level and don't have a feed in their helmet, regardless.

Defenses for the last couple years have been coming downhill on us pretty aggressively at times. What I'm telling you is the playcall is largely determining the initial linebacker motion. Sometimes I'm sure it's the case of someone playing the play but Edmonton backers would be coming down in on plays that are pass at times too.

They didn't know. They are just executing what's called and what's called is to take away A+B because that's how you contain Brady. There's little disincentive to do so at the moment.

[Tecno]

Defenses for the last couple years have been going down on us pretty aggressively at times. What I'm telling you is the playcall is largely determining the initial linebacker motion. Sometimes I'm sure it's the case of someone playing the play but Edmonton backers would be coming down in on plays that are pass too.

That's my whole point.  They are not.

And everything I saw has the 3 LBers acting in unison, like it was preplanned or they are instantly communicating (possible in PAS!).  I'm not talking at all about good players sniffing things out and going rogue for a huge play.

EDM would bring -1 our blockers.  They almost never blitzed +1.  Because they didn't need to.  A standard 5 RECs out scheme would see them just bring 4, and their 4, a big percentage of the time, would be able to get through.  It's those exact times where this effect is most obvious, because the 3 LBers do a little dance 100% in unison, and 90% guess right.

I watch a LOT of CFL ball, I'm telling you this was weird and different.  Not impossible or never-seen-before, but definitely eyebrow-lifting.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

That's my whole point.  They are not.

And everything I saw has the 3 LBers acting in unison, like it was preplanned or they are instantly communicating (possible in PAS!).  I'm not talking at all about good players sniffing things out and going rogue for a huge play.

EDM would bring -1 our blockers.  They almost never blitzed +1.  Because they didn't need to.  A standard 5 RECs out scheme would see them just bring 4, and their 4, a big percentage of the time, would be able to get through.  It's those exact times where this effect is most obvious, because the 3 LBers do a little dance 100% in unison, and 90% guess right.

I watch a LOT of CFL ball, I'm telling you this was weird and different.  Not impossible or never-seen-before, but definitely eyebrow-lifting.

So everyone besides our defense values pressure because it makes things easier on everybody.

If you're seeing four man pressure get home then linebackers can absolutely be even more aggressive. Again, this comes from the playcall more often than not.

And in five receiver sets the SAM is usually in a coverage responsibility so it's not quite adding up but whatever. The 'how' doesn't really matter. Either they are supersonic readers and have cracked a code that doesn't exist or they're just prepared and watched film and are calling a good game the result is the same. Shut down the middle of the field and you probably have a good day against our offense.