Younger's defense

[Blueforlife]

You don't know what you're talking about.

Hall ran MOD - it's a cover 4 that turns to man when receivers run routes that past the linebackers (who stayed down and in), so like 10 yard routes plus. If they got short short routes they'd stay. The MLB was more of a QB reader. This obviously works less good if more routes are short because you have the cover 4 drop not doing much. He'd then weave in soft technique that looked like MOD but was actually the opposite and allowed corners to jump stuff.  He'd essentially get you used to taking the flats and hooks/outs and then he'd take it away and suddenly a corner and a half are flying down in. A lot of defensive coordinators called that trap although I don't think the Bombers did at the time.

Younger runs much more pure zone. It starts as zone. It stays zone. He has a bunch of pressure looks that don't work well behind the zone coverage because of course QBs 101 is to throw where the pressure comes from. He doesn't seem to run trap much (although it's obviously hard to tell a lot of time) and he is very uncomfortable when he's not running deep thirds or over the top coverage of some kind which is why almost always plays are made in front of our defensive backs.

The systems are not the same at all and the unit has gone further and further away from what Hall used to run over time.

I see similarities in the systems, yes agree, over time they have slowly drifted apart.  I never said they were the same, said they were similar.  Both are bend don't break at times.   Both get exposed by explosion plays at times.  Both like to rotate.  Younger has more complexity imo.  Some very good info here and thanks for your post.  That said no need to say I don't know what I'm talking about.  My football knowledge isn't as strong as some on here 100%, I believe there is place for everyone on here to voice their opinions and knowledge.  Not about right or wrong but a collective discussion on opinions.  I believe Hall and Younger have evolved together.  Hall evolved a lot near the end as he was having some issues but corrected it, can't remember the year but he was under a lot of pressure at the time.

My knowledge of the nuts and bolts of the two schemes isn't as strong as yours and others 100% true.  But watching Bomber ball over the last decade, I see consistency and similarities between these two very good DCs.

[blueraid]

Need to change things up and get back to basics ...basics being tackling 101...The last game was particularly bad

[Blue In BC]

You mean the D that brought us cups and cup appearances?  The Bomber defense has been incredible for a long period of time.  Past success often can ground future success.  That's reality.  You are hyper focused on the last 3 games, I look at things with a wider lens.  Our defense has beat all teams for almost a decade consistently under this scheme.  That's the facts, that's reality.  Last year our D was fine (near top in pts allowed, rush yards, a likely a few other areas).  Previously lights out good.  Last year our O sucked which stressed out the D.  With balance on O this year, D should be better.  Patience pays off, always has, always will with this version of the Bombers.  Deep breath.  Game 2.  Is our D good right now, nope.  Can it be, hell yes.  Does our schemes work, 100%.  Can and will they be better, absolutely.

Our D and O are not expired (yet).  Yes we can adapt and change.  I see an average club that likely can improve by 1/4 or mid season.  We need to digest the changes to the our roster imo.

Just b/c you see it one way doesn't mean that's reality.  I respect your opinion but it's far from mine and that's ok.  Let's leave it there.  I don't appreciate the glasses shot but do enjoy the back and forth otherwise.

No I mean the defence that lost the Grey Cup in 2022, 2023 and 2024. The defence that caused us to slip to the crossover team in 2025 and being eliminated in the 1st round.

It has nothing to do with the last 3 games. Look up systemic in the dictionary. How many games did we win against the Riders and Stamps in 2025. Being eastern teams was easier last year. You have to be able to beat teams in the west.

I'll tell you. We lost 7 of 9 games to the west division and only won 2 games against the Lions. In one of those games Masoli was the starting QB.

[Blueforlife]

Need to change things up and get back to basics ...basics being tackling 101...The last game was particularly bad

hard to argue with that, physicality an issue to be sure, others have pointed that out

No I mean the defence that lost the Grey Cup in 2022, 2023 and 2024. The defence that caused us to slip to crossover team in 2025 and being eliminated in the 1st round.

can't win em all, D got us to the big show, you mean the D that allowed some of the least points ever that one year,  you mean the D where we were not scored on for a long period of time, easy to point out the few bad games in a sea of success, not trending in the right direction but our defensive coaches and schemes are proven, reliable and very good.  Their record speaks for themselves.  Our peak on D has passed yes but lets not discount the past success nor write off the chance for it to return.  The foundation is there, time to rebuild a few rooms.

The narrative is the same as it was pre- mini dynasty for some, hyper focused on the cup drought.  Forest through the trees.

[Blue In BC]

hard to argue with that, physicality an issue to be sure, others have pointed that outcan't win em all, D got us to the big show, you mean the D that allowed some of the least points ever that one year,  you mean the D where we were not scored on for a long period of time, easy to point out the few bad games in a sea of success, not trending in the right direction but our defensive coaches and schemes are proven, reliable and very good.  Their record speaks for themselves.  Our peak on D has passed yes but lets not discount the past success nor write off the chance for it to return.  The foundation is there, time to rebuild a few rooms.

I agree with Sir Blue and Gold and others. You don't know what you are talking about. You always in defend and wait mode. Are you not seeing what other posters are telling you?

Look at the poll. You're going to feel you're being picked on and that is just not true.  Our defence got worse when we didn't re-sign Alexander or Bighill. While that was necessary due to age, injury history and SMS, we have not replaced those spots very well.

That should have been done in TC. It wasn't.

During 2025 ( and earlier ) the conversations were about lack of pressure and soft coverage in the secondary.  Sure the defence will improve during the course of this season but to what level is unknown.  You might be the only one feeling a need to justify our defensive performances.

I don't know what else we can tell you.

[Blueforlife]

I agree with Sir Blue and Gold and others. You don't know what you are talking about. You always in defend and wait mode. Are you not seeing what other posters are telling you?

Look at the poll. You're going to feel you're being picked on and that is just not true.  Our defence got worse when we didn't re-sign Alexander or Bighill. While that was necessary due to age, injury history and SMS, we have not replaced those spots very well.

That should have been done in TC. It wasn't.

I don't know what else we can tell you.

That is not a fair take on what or how I post here.  I provide my opinion on the team, league, players, management in a variety of ways, good bad and ugly and often will not follow the herd.  Yes I'm patient, that's allowed.  Who supported Hall, MOS and management before our epic cup run, right I did and many others and I tip my hat to them.  We were patient when many wanted to blow up the team.  Patience paid off.  I think it will again.  I'm allowed to be positive.  The poll is a take on some opinions, it's not facts or right just a summary of opinions.  I don't agree with those that have said that Younger's D has always been bad.  That is simply not supported with the success the team has had on D.  I believe it's an emotional based response to a D that struggled two game in row after laying an egg in the playoffs.  Eggs happen.

Yes I'll defend my position and the club as needed when I want to make a point.  That's what we all do.  There are some on here that remain positive when things go bad.  Some panic when we have a bad game, others get too high when we on a streak, that's just how it is.  There is room for all of us on here.  I have stated my opinion on the state of the club, my opinion on Hall, Younger, etc and it's just take.  Not right or wrong.  Nobody can claim were certainty they know more than someone else and I don't see any value or reason joining in and saying one doesn't know what they are taking about.  I value both of your opinions and knowledge you share.  Just become someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong.  The truth is likely and often in the middle of two polarized view points.

It's not about being picked on, it's about sharing one point and contributing to the forum.  It's about allowing space for that to happen.  It's about allowing a good debate to occur.  These latest exchanges have been mostly very positive with a health of information being share.  That's what I'm here for.  The personal stuff is just noise and best to be avoided.

Full stop don't agree about Alexander and Bighill.  We have been fine at LB for a long time.  Alexander was done full stop and I did like him but not signing him was 100% the right decision.  Those two decisions have little to do with our past issues or current team dynamic.  Now this season, we should have had a better plan at safety.  Injuries forced our hand a bit but signing a safety would be something I support as I mentioned before.  I was surprised at your take here.  Perhaps I'm missing your point.  Clarify it please.

No need to paint with with the same brush every time (posting style).  You have done that numerous times in the past and it's not true.  The variety of posting styles, knowledge, view points on here is something that makes this place special.  We all have a voice and if we didn't debate, argue and differ in how we post, this place wouldn't be very informative and lot less fun.

I haven't just posted that we wait.  I see an opportunity to bring in a S, corner and maybe receiver.  But I would wait a little on the last two.  I would be shopping hard for a FS that has experience and is cheap.  I have said how the D have to evolve and learn how to deploy our new faces.  I am cautiously optimistic about this season.  I am not also very worried after 2 games and don't think that means very much for what we might see.

[Blue In BC]

That is not a fair take on what or how I post here.  I provide my opinion on the team, league, players, management in a variety of ways, good bad and ugly and often will not follow the herd.  Yes I'm patient, that's allowed.  Who supported Hall, MOS and management before our epic cup run, right I did and many others and I tip my hat to them.  We were patient when many wanted to blow up the team.  Patience paid off.  I think it will again.  I'm allowed to be positive.  The poll is a take on some opinions, it's not facts or right just a summary of opinions.  I don't agree with those that have said that Younger's D has always been bad.  That is simply not supported with the success the team has had on D.  I believe it's an emotional based response to a D that struggled two game in row after laying an egg in the playoffs.  Eggs happen.

Yes I'll defend my position and the club as needed when I want to make a point.  That's what we all do.  There are some on here that remain positive when things go bad.  Some panic when we have a bad game, others get too high when we on a streak, that's just how it is.  There is room for all of us on here.  I have stated my opinion on the state of the club, my opinion on Hall, Younger, etc and it's just take.  Not right or wrong.  Nobody can claim were certainty they know more than someone else and I don't see any value or reason joining in and saying one doesn't know what they are taking about.  I value both of your opinions and knowledge you share.  Just become someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong.  The truth is likely and often in the middle of two polarized view points.

It's not about being picked on, it's about sharing one point and contributing to the forum.

Full stop don't agree about Alexander and Bighill.  We have been fine at LB for a long time.  Alexander was done full stop and I did like him but no signing him was 100% the right decision.  Those two decisions have little to do with our past issues or current team dynamic.  Now this season, we should have had a better plan at safety.  Injuries forced our hand a bit but signing a safety would be something I support as I mentioned before.

No need to paint with with the same brush every time (posting style).  You have done that numerous times in the past and it's not true.  The variety of posting styles, knowledge, view point on here is something that makes this place special.  We all have a voice and if we didn't debate, argue and differ in how we post, this place wouldn't be very informative and lot less fun.

Opinions need to be based on fact even when trying to be positive. Yes, Alexander and Bighill needed to be replaced an once again we have not solidified either position.

In 2025 we started with Parker at safety and then Allen and then a rotation of several players including Kelly. This year we've moved every LB to a new role. So far that's a fail. I don't remember anyone in favour of Kramdi at safety.

We don't seem to have an alternative at the moment but that's still a reality. You suggested bringing in a safety and a CB. I reminded you the time to do that if before TC. I don't know how many DB's we looked at in tryout camps or during TC.  It's not even clear whether Allen would have made the roster if he didn't get injured. Regardless bringing in new players during the season means time on the PR and not usually very successful making the AR unless of injury.

[Blueforlife]

Opinions need to be based on fact even when trying to be positive. Yes, Alexander and Bighill needed to be replaced an once again we have not solidified either position.

In 2025 we started with Parker at safety and then Allen and then a rotation of several players including Kelly. This year we've moved every LB to a new role. So far that's a fail. I don't remember anyone in favour of Kramdi at safety.

We don't seem to have an alternative at the moment but that's still a reality.

Opinion are based on ones take.  We all try to be factual.  None of us ever achieve that all the time.  There are strong facts that backup Hall's/Younger's/Bombers success on D for a very long time.  There are also facts that point to some bumps along the road in that success.

Agree those names needed to be gone.  Yes Parker at safety didn't work, Allen was ok but wasn't ready.  Kelly isn't the answer.  We can agree that we haven't found a safety.  I have said before the season started that Kramdi wouldn't be at safety.  I thought we could figure that out with someone else.  That didn't happen and I called for a new safety to be brought in.  I believe our issues at safety have one of the biggest thorns in our side for a bit.  Hopefully we can figure that out.  We are in complete agreement on that one. 

Will we will bring a S in? Can Kramdi learn the craft? Can Allen get healthy and be an option? Is there another player on the roster we can try?  Will be try two safeties again? Can we rotate at S?

[Sir Blue and Gold]

What has Jordan Younger won as a coach?

What's his record over three years? What about his playoff record? A fraction above average?

[Blue In BC]

Opinion are based on ones take.  We all try to be factual.  None of us ever achieve that all the time.  There are strong facts that backup Hall's/Younger's/Bombers success on D for a very long time.  There are also facts that point to some bumps along the road in that success.

Agree those names needed to be gone.  Yes Parker at safety didn't work, Allen was ok but wasn't ready.  Kelly isn't the answer.  We can agree that we haven't found a safety.  I have said before the season started that Kramdi wouldn't be at safety.  I thought we could figure that out with someone else.  That didn't happen and I called for a new safety to be brought in.  I believe our issues at safety have one of the biggest thorns in our side for a bit.  Hopefully we can figure that out.  We are in complete agreement on that one. 

Will we will bring a S in? Can Kramdi learn the craft? Can Allen get healthy and be an option? Is there another player on the roster we can try?  Will be try two safeties again? Can we rotate at S?

I'm not sure what we'll do at safety. Even if we replace Kramdi then Kramdi replaces Griffin and so on down the line. It's a domino effect.

I think Ball was getting a lot of reps in TC but is injured now. When or if he can return is unknown. Stuart did in pre season as well. Allen might be the future but he only had a small sample size last year. The team seemed to decide moving him out from that spot before TC. Can't really know whether he was being considered at safety, CB or as a DI.

Each of those potentially impacted the ratio and other moves. Again, no idea whether he'll be able to return or when or what they decide at that point.

I think the 1st option is to bring back someone that was here in TC. If they rejected a PR spot that creates a complication. Like I said, adding a rookie that wasn't here in TC is a different kind of issue.

[Pigskin]

The Bombers didn't address the safety position in the off season. Kramdi can play safety but is more effective as a SLB. Wilson and Jones need to which positions. Wilson is not a MLB.

[Blue In BC]

The Bombers didn't address the safety position in the off season. Kramdi can play safety but is more effective as a SLB. Wilson and Jones need to which positions. Wilson is not a MLB.

I suppose that if they find a solution at safety, they move Kramdi back to SAM. In theory that would mean Griffin takes over the role of Woodbey in rotation but we lose him as a full time player on defence.

Finding a Canadian at safety is less likely so the ripple effect with Griffin might mean dropping the extra DL to do that.

Yes, switch K. Wilson and Jones back to roles in 2025. Still lacking but still a preferable choice at the moment.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

The Bombers didn't address the safety position in the off season. Kramdi can play safety but is more effective as a SLB. Wilson and Jones need to which positions. Wilson is not a MLB.

Agreed and also, no one, other than Brandon Alexander, who himself was more of a Richie Hall guy than a Jordan Younger guy, has been successful at safety. No one.

[Blue In BC]

Saw some griping about Winnipeg's defence online after the loss to Hamilton and it is true that the Bombers gave up a bunch of chunk plays to Hamilton through the air, and 124 rushing yards to Ticats' running back Larry Rountree III. Heck, even Bo Levi Mitchell ripped off a 15-yard run at one point.

"That's not a championship defence."

[Blueforlife]

I'm not sure what we'll do at safety. Even if we replace Kramdi then Kramdi replaces Griffin and so on down the line. It's a domino effect.

I think Ball was getting a lot of reps in TC but is injured now. When or if he can return is unknown. Stuart did in pre season as well. Allen might be the future but he only had a small sample size last year. The team seemed to decide moving him out from that spot before TC. Can't really know whether he was being considered at safety, CB or as a DI.

Each of those potentially impacted the ratio and other moves. Again, no idea whether he'll be able to return or when or what they decide at that point.

I think the 1st option is to bring back someone that was here in TC. If they rejected a PR spot that creates a complication. Like I said, adding a rookie that wasn't here in TC is a different kind of issue.

I like Ball but has he played safety? Stuart will need much seasoning imo? Any update on Allen's injury?

I suppose that if they find a solution at safety, they move Kramdi back to SAM. In theory that would mean Griffin takes over the role of Woodbey in rotation but we lose him as a full time player on defence.

Finding a Canadian at safety is less likely so the ripple effect with Griffin might mean dropping the extra DL to do that.

Yes, switch K. Wilson and Jones back to roles in 2025. Still lacking but still a preferable choice at the moment.

I think this trio of LBs would be fine with rotation of Woodbey.  And I would sprinkle in the prospects.