Younger's defense

[Blueforlife]

You're failing to understand or see what is a systemic problem. Points are not the only measurement. Yards given up, field position gained and TOP allowed.

It has little to do with what we've seen so far this season. It's the same problems we've had last year.

Yes our offence was a problem. OTOH, we couldn't push the opponent off the field often enough. I used the example of allowing a 100+ yard drive in both games so far.

This is not new. Often in games where the score was close, we COULD NOT push the opponent off the field. A good defence does that. 2 and out.

We've overpaid a multitude of players. Without knowing what the budget looks like we can't really say we couldn't have afforded Sankey for example. We made choices and we'll see how it works out.

You're failing to understand what has been the pilar of success for this club.  Hall's and Younger's D has been very good for almost a decade.  You are failing to understand that we are two game in.  The players you suggested we should have signed were more expensive.

We have a different set of players this year and a different set of problems. 

We have some injuries, a better DL which will take a little time to settle in.  Our LBs are very good but having Kramdi change positions has brought challenges.  Losing Knox really hurt.  Our backend on D is new and will take time to sort out.

I firmly believe that many have been too hard on our defense, they were decent last year and were on the field way too much with an offense that sucked and was hurt.

Last time I checked the goal of the game is to score more points than the other team. Points allowed can't be so quickly written off.  Yes the other metrics are important.

I have seen this type of reaction before.  Have a couple challenging games and the negativity just gets poured on. Patience.  Game 2.

You nailed it, we spend money elsewhere and couldn't afford to sign a top LB, which imo wouldn't have solved our problems, it actually could have created them (stretching our SMS).

If I was running the club, I would spend money on a safety for sure, maybe a corner (wait a few games 1st), maybe a reciever but overall I would stay the course and see if we have the answers in house.

We have a much different take on the club and that's ok.  I wouldn't have even considered breaking the bank at LB, money better spend elsewhere considering we have some of the best depth at LB is the league.  We don't have the star power but we have a good mix of vets and prospects and value guys.

Last year is done.  We have had a lot of turnover on D.  Yes a lot faces back and same schemes but we lost some talent.  Have you forgotten how successful Hall's and Younger's D has been?

Does our D look good, nope.  Run D is swiss cheese, will we improve, maybe.  Cautiously optimistic.  Way too early to know much about the club.  My money is on Hall and Younger figuring it out.  Have done that before.

Here are my 2 cents worth after 2 games.

I think our O will be ok BUT we will need to be a lot better running the ball.

Our D in my opinion are not physical enough. And our pass coverage is way too passive. We have way too many uncontested catches. Now I know that every D gives up those type of catches but to me we do that more than any other team. I also think that Wilson is not the middle linebacker we need. I rarely notice him in the game- don't recall him making any hit on a RB in the backfield or at the line. Kramdi at Safety is also a failure- need him at SAM OR WIL. There has to be an intelligent, fast, hard hitting Safety out there. Cam Allen before he got hurt I thought was a step behind the play most of the time this year. I know not a large sample size but...

Very good points
Agree all but think Wilson is ok
Physicality an issue
Kramdi at S a big mistake, I never thought he would even be considered there, said early in camp he wouldn't and ate crow.  Time for the team to eat bird and make that change.  He is a very good Cdn LB.  He isn't the answer a safety.
I think our pass coverage will come around.

Agree about the run game, with it we are sunk.  We live and die with Brady.  Need the OL to improve on how they open holes for him.  Will take time, I called it early the line would need time to gel, which I thought has looked better than expected.  Game is won on the LOS, if our OL and DL can start to cook, everything else falls in place.

Questions for me are:
Has Nichols and Moxey lost a step? I have no idea.  I believe more in Nichols as I know him more. Moxey might need more time to learn our systems (guessing).

Can Williams learn the craft quick enough?

Can our extra DB that rotates in play good enough on max pass pro?

Can our defensive coaches quickly adapt in game, adjust to our current talent and find creative ways to keep teams guessing?

Can we get healthy on D by mid season? Will Woodbey come back?

Can some of our younger players get enough reps on teams and rotation to start to make an impact?

[dd]

Rountree had 124 yards on 23 carries. There were more run plays than pass completions. Total was 171 yards. Against the Stamps we gave up 150 yards rushing. In neither case can you make an argument that the DL played well. 

that was the same problem last year. Yes, our offense sucked mightily, but dang, our defense couldn't stop the run last year and we opted to go with Wilson as our MLB??, while Sankey and Awe were free agents, man that was just plain dumb.

[Blueforlife]

that was the same problem last year. Yes, our offense sucked mightily, but dang, our defense couldn't stop the run last year and we opted to go with Wilson as our MLB??, while Sankey and Awe were free agents, man that was just plain dumb.

Sorry no, we were #3 against the run in 2025 as per below

Fact is we stopped the run at the 3rd best clip in the league, hopefully we can improve after a couple bad games

Wilson is a good LB, those other names are good but too expensive

We also signed Knox who is a top player but got hurt, it happens

[Sir Blue and Gold]

that was the same problem last year. Yes, our offense sucked mightily, but dang, our defense couldn't stop the run last year and we opted to go with Wilson as our MLB??, while Sankey and Awe were free agents, man that was just plain dumb.

Not sure about Sankey or Awe but it's bizarre to the degree we don't value pressure or aggression under Younger.

If we're going to give up 450 yards of offense and 35 points we might as well give it up in burst plays while hitting the QB and forcing some off balance throws. We'll at least also generate some turnovers and be harder to play against. All of these 10-15 play drives in three down football is insane and basically unheard of. If you know the game at all you know that to be true.

[Blueforlife]

Not sure about Sankey or Awe but it's bizarre to the degree we don't value pressure or aggression under Younger.

If we're going to give up 450 yards of offense and 35 points we might as well give it up in burst plays while hitting the QB and forcing some off balance throws. We'll at least also generate some turnovers and be harder to play against. All of these 10-15 play drives in three down football is insane and basically unheard of. If you know the game at all you know that to be true.

Hall and Younger's defensive scheme is well respected, proven and has brought incredible success to this ball club.  Brought us two cups, cup appearances and much success after a dark period for the Bombers.  If you know the game at all you will remember this incredible success we have had with these coaches.  New year, new players but rooted in previous success.

I believe that Hall and Younger will be remembered as some of the best defensive minds of this era and our incredible performances over the last number of years as some of the best the club has seen for decades.

Long way to go this year but also lots of time to correct a couple regrettable performances on D.

Top 3 in points allowed last year.  A good run defense.  Something to build on.

Younger values pressure, its a balance.  3 man rush means a lot of max pass pro.  League been that way for years.  Got pressure the 1st game, 2nd not so much.  Way too early to know how this will pan out throughout the season.  Not worried about our DL at all if healthy.

[Pete]

In terms of awe and Sankey, we had already signed Santos Knox, to me this shows that we recognized that Jones at MLB wasn't great, unfortunately he got injured. With Awe no team has resigned him even when he had 100 tackles plus so no way he fits in.
 Obvious to most of us Wilson isn't the answer, personally I'm hoping that we do move Jones back to mlb, it isn't optimal but still better than Wilson. As soon as we get Smith back he should be taking more of Wilson's reps. This will allow us to move an import to safety, whether its Allen when he's healthy or bring back Lamont. Also its time to sit Ayers and bring in another db or even a receiver hes not an effective lb in the regular rotation.
  In looking at the defense as a whole its now at 85% of the voters stating that Younger defense just isnt good enough anymore

[Blue In BC]

In terms of awe and Sankey, we had already signed Santos Knox, to me this shows that we recognized that Jones at MLB wasn't great, unfortunately he got injured. With Awe no team has resigned him even when he had 100 tackles plus so no way he fits in.
 Obvious to most of us Wilson isn't the answer, personally I'm hoping that we do move Jones back to mlb, it isn't optimal but still better than Wilson. As soon as we get Smith back he should be taking more of Wilson's reps. This will allow us to move an import to safety, whether its Allen when he's healthy or bring back Lamont. Also its time to sit Ayers and bring in another db or even a receiver hes not an effective lb in the regular rotation.
  In looking at the defense as a whole its now at 85% of the voters stating that Younger defense just isnt good enough anymore

We signed JSK on 02/10 but could have been reaching out to the other LB's in the tampering window Earlier in the case of Awe. I don't know that we did or didn't but we did have an opportunity to do that.

Awe was signed by the Als on 02/11. Sankey was released long before free agency and signed by the Lions on 12/11. So you are in error on that comment.

It's not clear when or if Allen will return. It seemed clear we made a decision before TC to move Kramdi to safety. There didn't seem to be any real competition behind Kramdi to win that spot. A cumulative decision based on moving all our LB's into different roles.

[Blue In BC]

Hall and Younger's defensive scheme is well respected, proven and has brought incredible success to this ball club.  Brought us two cups, cup appearances and much success after a dark period for the Bombers.  If you know the game at all you will remember this incredible success we have had with these coaches.  New year, new players but rooted in previous success.

I believe that Hall and Younger will be remembered as some of the best defensive minds of this era and our incredible performances over the last number of years as some of the best the club has seen for decades.

Long way to go this year but also lots of time to correct a couple regrettable performances on D.

Top 3 in points allowed last year.  A good run defense.  Something to build on.

Younger values pressure, its a balance.  3 man rush means a lot of max pass pro.  League been that way for years.  Got pressure the 1st game, 2nd not so much.  Way too early to know how this will pan out throughout the season.  Not worried about our DL at all if healthy.

You mean the defence that gave up 384 yards on 24/34 pass attempts and 166 yards in the Eastern Semi? That's 550 yards we gave up in that game.

I think you need to clean your glasses because you are just not seeing the reality. Our defence does well against bad teams or good teams with significant injury issues.

Against top teams that are healthy not so much. There is a reason we finished 4th in the West and it wasn't just because of our offence.

I mentioned it about the last game. When a defence can't get the opponent off the field, they lose TOP and field position which keeps your own offence off the field.

Offences and defences have best before dates. Change is fluid and adaptive over time.

[Pete]

We signed JSK on 02/10 but could have been reaching out to the other LB's in the tampering window Earlier in the case of Awe. I don't know that we did or didn't but we did have an opportunity to do that.

Awe was signed by the Als on 02/11. Sankey was released long before free agency and signed by the Lions on 12/11. So you are in error on that comment.

It's not clear when or if Allen will return. It seemed clear we made a decision before TC to move Kramdi to safety. There didn't seem to be any real competition behind Kramdi to win that spot. A cumulative decision based on moving all our LB's into different roles.

we dont know of we reached out for Sankey, he may have selected BC for a number of reasons, Like I said Awe likely not a fit. They did get Santos what is disturbing is we seem. To have given Wilson the sppt by default rather than bringing in better competition

[Blue In BC]

we dont know of we reached out for Sankey, he may have selected BC for a number of reasons, Like I said Awe likely not a fit. They did get Santos what is disturbing is we seem. To have given Wilson the sppt by default rather than bringing in better competition

All probably true, although Awe would have been a Bomber in 2020 but was released due to the shutdown. Montreal ha been a top defensive unit so it says something that they signed him. It's an unfortunate pattern with the team that some roster spots are won by default. I suppose that's true with every team to some degree but it seems we have a harder time moving on from vets. J. Thomas comes to mind. We don't sign replacements in free agency and we don't draft them either.

Ayers would be another example. Good ST players are easy to find. If a DI isn't moving up and becoming more versatile, he should be replaced. Small rosters and ratio dictate that. Was there really any doubt he's make the roster even though we brought in a bunch of new LB's. Not one even was kept on the PR.

I think many of us felt that Jones was not that great a MLB, but Wilson is worse. I'd switch them back now and start rotating in the Canadians.

[kkc60]

Considering our defense uses almost all of our DI spots, there is no excuse for how bad the defense has been. There seems to always be someone open on 2nd down.

[Blueforlife]

You mean the defence that gave up 384 yards on 24/34 pass attempts and 166 yards in the Eastern Semi? That's 550 yards we gave up in that game.

I think you need to clean your glasses because you are just not seeing the reality. Our defence does well against bad teams or good teams with significant injury issues.

Against top teams that are healthy not so much. There is a reason we finished 4th in the West and it wasn't just because of our offence.

I mentioned it about the last game. When a defence can't get the opponent off the field, they lose TOP and field position which keeps your own offence off the field.

Offences and defences have best before dates. Change is fluid and adaptive over time.

You mean the D that brought us cups and cup appearances?  The Bomber defense has been incredible for a long period of time.  Past success often can ground future success.  That's reality.  You are hyper focused on the last 3 games, I look at things with a wider lens.  Our defense has beat all teams for almost a decade consistently under this scheme.  That's the facts, that's reality.  Last year our D was fine (near top in pts allowed, rush yards, a likely a few other areas).  Previously lights out good.  Last year our O sucked which stressed out the D.  With balance on O this year, D should be better.  Patience pays off, always has, always will with this version of the Bombers.  Deep breath.  Game 2.  Is our D good right now, nope.  Can it be, hell yes.  Does our schemes work, 100%.  Can and will they be better, absolutely.

Our D and O are not expired (yet).  Yes we can adapt and change.  I see an average club that likely can improve by 1/4 or mid season.  We need to digest the changes to the our roster imo.

Just b/c you see it one way doesn't mean that's reality.  I respect your opinion but it's far from mine and that's ok.  Let's leave it there.  I don't appreciate the glasses shot but do enjoy the back and forth otherwise.

[kkc60]

You mean the D that brought us cups and cup appearances?  The Bomber defense has been incredible for a long period of time.  Past success often can ground future success.  That's reality.  You are hyped focused on the last 3 games, I look at things with a wider lens.  Our defense has beat all teams for almost a decade consistently under this scheme.  That's the facts, that's reality.  Last year our D was fine.  Previously lights out good.  Last year our O sucked which stressed out D.  With balance on O this year, D should be better.

Just b/c you see it one way doesn't mean that's reality.  I respect your opinion but it's far from mine and that's ok.  Let's leave it there.

This defense also is not the same defense of years past. As for the scheme, that's just not true. The scheme changed when Hall was swapped for Younger. Sure, some aspects did not but more or less it's a different defense.

Now whether it's players or scheme, the run-game has been lacking and teams are converting 2nd and medium/long all day long on us. The "heavy in the secondary" was great because teams couldn't move the ball in the air with the extra DBs. That is simply no longer the case. We all saw it.

[Blueforlife]

This defense also is not the same defense of years past. As for the scheme, that's just not true. The scheme changed when Hall was swapped for Younger. Sure, some aspects did not but more or less it's a different defense.

Now whether it's players or scheme, the run-game has been lacking and teams are converting 2nd and medium/long all day long on us. The "heavy in the secondary" was great because teams couldn't move the ball in the air with the extra DBs. That is simply no longer the case. We all saw it.

The schemes are similar.  Hall is still here.  The past success of the D is routed with Hall's schemes which have been modified / improved / tweaked by Younger.  It's not the same yes, but similar.  Splitting hairs imo.  Our run D this year has been poor.  Last year top 3.  The DB coverage has been weak this year but it's two games and it's early with some new faces.  To early to call our D anything until a larger sample size of games.  I have supported and believed in Hall from the beginning.  Maybe wanted him gone and called for his head.  He brought us much success and Younger the same.  2 games in.  Let's set it bread rise before we eat it LOL.  I believe having Kramdi at S was a big mistake but we go nobody else.  I would air lift in somebody but doubt that happens.

I see more similarities than differences from Hall to Younger.  I slightly prefer Younger.  Both very good imo.  Both over criticized imo.

The mood on here by some feels like our pre-mini dynasty run with Hall on D.  Ok ok maybe not that bad.  The forum was pretty manic back then LOL (dry spells will do that LOL).  I have some hope, we shall see.  Not there yet!

I believe in the schemes, mix of current players, 50/50 LOL

[Sir Blue and Gold]

The schemes are similar.  Hall is still here.  The past success of the D is routed with Hall's schemes which have been modified / improved / tweaked by Younger.  It's not the same yes, but similar.  Splitting hairs imo.  Our run D this year has been poor.  Last year top 3.  The DB coverage has been weak this year but it's two games and it's early.  To early to call our D anything until a larger sample size.  I have supported and believed in Hall from the beginning.  Maybe wanted him gone and called for his head.  He brought us much success and Younger the same.  2 games in.  Let's set it bread rise before we eat it LOL.  I believe having Kramdi at S was a big mistake but we go nobody else.  I would air lift in somebody but doubt that happens.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Hall ran MOD - it's a cover 4 that turns to man when receivers run routes that past the linebackers (who stayed down and in), so like 10 yard routes plus. If they got short short routes they'd stay. The MLB was more of a QB reader. This obviously works less good if more routes are short because you have the cover 4 drop not doing much. He'd then weave in soft technique that looked like MOD but was actually the opposite and allowed corners to jump stuff.  He'd essentially get you used to taking the flats and hooks/outs and then he'd take it away and suddenly a corner and a half are flying down in. A lot of defensive coordinators called that trap although I don't think the Bombers did at the time.

Younger runs much more pure zone. It starts as zone. It stays zone. There's a lot more moving pieces, linebackers covering routes, others filling run lanes. More emphasis on the defensive line to be consistently in a position because of it. He has a bunch of pressure looks that don't work well behind the zone coverage because of course QBs 101 is to throw where the pressure comes from. He doesn't seem to run trap much (although it's obviously hard to tell a lot of time) and he is very uncomfortable when he's not running deep thirds/double high or over the top coverage of some kind which is why almost always plays are made in front of our defensive backs.

The systems are not the same at all and the unit has gone further and further away from what Hall used to run over time.