Younger's defense

[Sir Blue and Gold]

you only have to compare Elks defensive approach in the last drive to ours. The Elks were very aggressive in blitzing and coverage, putting pressure on our offense while we tried to just keep everyone everyone in front of us.

Yep. Or the hits going on in the Toronto / Rider game right now. Both defenses playing traditional attacking football on defense. What. A. Concept.

[Tecno]

The bar is very low if we give up over 100 on the ground to Rankin, 2 100 yard scoring drives and an outright faceplant with three minutes left and we're calling that 'not bad'.

Most of what you said is correct, but yes, every team would be overjoyed to give up 100 to Rankin because the dude got 250 and many TDs in each of the other games.  In fact, other teams may look at what we did as the template to defeat Rankin too.

Now, the more important question is: did we limit Rankin by sacrificing anything else?  Or was our scheme perfectly suited to stop him?  Because if we didn't do anything special, then that's +1 strength for Younger's scheme.  And from what I saw, we didn't seem worse on D than usual -- we gave up all the short pass game as usual, but we still limited the deep and held the other runs.  Even our hitch screen D wasn't too horrific.

So now if we can just stop the short pass... our D might have a shot at even beating SSK.  Assuming our O gets their heads out of their shorts.

[Tecno]

They also kept the Elks to 1 TD drive in the second half to give us a chance to win.

This is true, and while the H1 100Y drives were inexcusable, we may have to be a bit forgiving with the final one because I'm sure the ToP was lopsided.  Our D was on the field almost the entire H1 and was probably bushed by the end of the game.

The infinite turnovers meant the D never got any rest.

Oh ya, and no one's mentioned the shambles 2 & out to start the game when we won the toss and took the ball.  Talk about a buzzkill.  If the O is going to stink it up on the scripted "should succeed" first drive, just defer when we win the toss.

[Tecno]

I saw Kelly, Cause I was trying to watch him to see how he would do.

We'll never know why he's out there.

But I've noticed that we're not noticing Kelly in game 2 & 3... as in, he's not the one getting torched.  So that means we have fixed something.  I lamented Kelly being left 1 on 1 in game 1 (and all of last season) and teams would just throw to him for easy TDs.  Ya, that's all cleaned up in the last 2 games.

I think they solved the scheme and made sure Kelly was only ever a "roving 2nd FS", or zone support, or something.  In fact, the fact you guys just said you noticed Kelly where SAM would be hints at this.  He's no longer the deepest guy in zone who is forced to cover the go.  And this is a good thing.  Maybe him being isolated on top RECs before was effectively a bust & big mistake by one of the vets... and not Kelly's fault at all.

In sum, we may already have seen an improvement of the use of Kelly -- and more like what the "successful" scheme is supposed to look like.  Now... to actually have him make some plays so he can get a stat...

[Tecno]

Wilson has lost more than a step

Pretty sure Kyrie had one of his best games in a while vs EDM.  Wasn't he a big part of why Rankin was limited?  We'll see on rewatch.  Might be life in the old dog yet.

The decision to go after aged vets ie Ceresna and Moxey vs younger quicker ie Carney  and Allen is not looking good

Moxey also had a much better night.  In hip pockets mostly on deep stuff.  Not taking those huge uncontested burns he did in prior weeks.  Looked very vet on some plays.  The stuff in front of him isn't his fault, he's forced to play off 10Y by JY.

Ceresna: jury still out.  If he's dinged up and out for many games now, ya that's going to hurt.  But it's better than him playing hurt and doing nothing, if that's what the case was.

[Tecno]

I just saw it as Edm got a good lead, took their foot off the gas and coasted a while but when they needed a score they got one.

Post of the game.  This is precisely what happened.  EDM didn't suddenly get mediocre at halftime, and our D didn't suddenly get good.  They went into "prevent O" because they bet we'd just fumble again and/or struggle to produce more than 1 first down.  When they saw we got the go-ahead, they just turned the switch back on and it was like we didn't even exist once again.

Sad.  Worst part is seeing Cody all self-satisfied after scoring that TD.  It's like catharsis for him, after all his green playoff defeats to blue.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

This is true, and while the H1 100Y drives were inexcusable, we may have to be a bit forgiving with the final one because I'm sure the ToP was lopsided.  Our D was on the field almost the entire H1 and was probably bushed by the end of the game.

The infinite turnovers meant the D never got any rest.

Oh ya, and no one's mentioned the shambles 2 & out to start the game when we won the toss and took the ball.  Talk about a buzzkill.  If the O is going to stink it up on the scripted "should succeed" first drive, just defer when we win the toss.

TOP was essentially 50/50 and if you want to talk about being tired, Edmonton was on a short week with one practice and we were coming off a bye.

[DM83]

When you put pressure on the other person, they can show cracks in performance. Let them alone and have time, and let them perform and they do better. So put pressure on them, then they can error. It's like anyone in doing a task. Unfortunately, younger, must have been effected by this non aggressive approach. So he doesn't want to pressure, anyone.? Seems to be the wrong approach for a guy coaching a defensive group, who would seem to prosper by giving their opponent less time to excell.

Fans are not going to continue to attend and watch any team be walked over. There is nothing to cheer about. This has been a picturing identification of him. Every other team, has brought in young aggressive people. 

We don't seem to be enthused in bringing in people that can out play others. Ceresna? White.?  Are they only here, because three old teams knew they were done?

Our O line looks awesome?  Zach will have a short season.  Time to re-jig managements view on who to pay? The Philosophy on Defence again seems to be well, pathetic. Who wants to play archaic schemes that have not really worked for over a year now?

[Blue In BC]

It's not a hard concept.

It's in the forum rules.

Keep the personal attacks out of your posts please.

Neither is understanding the difference between good defence and bad defence over an extended period.  You need to support your arguments better and quit complaining about your perception of personal attacks. You can block or ignore but you may end up with only conversations with yourself.

Make better arguments if you want to engage with posters.

Other defensive considerations besides points allowed:

1. Sacks
2. Hits
3. Hurries
4. Knockdowns
5. Ints
6. TFL
7. Turnovers
8. Plays allowed
9. TOP
10. Impact of weather
11. Impact / noise of fans for at home games.

[Blue In BC]

This is true, and while the H1 100Y drives were inexcusable, we may have to be a bit forgiving with the final one because I'm sure the ToP was lopsided.  Our D was on the field almost the entire H1 and was probably bushed by the end of the game.

The infinite turnovers meant the D never got any rest.

Oh ya, and no one's mentioned the shambles 2 & out to start the game when we won the toss and took the ball.  Talk about a buzzkill.  If the O is going to stink it up on the scripted "should succeed" first drive, just defer when we win the toss.

We've used the tired excuse before when TOP was lopsided. It's the defence that caused that in the 1st place, so it can't be used as excuse. The TOP was close overall and might have actually been on our side by the end of the game.

A defence can give ups 2 quick plays for 100 yards. Or they can give up 12 plays for 100 yards. You can see which takes more TOP. The 2nd example is what we see in bend but don't break defensive strategies.

At one point Fajardo was 12 of 14 and finished with 71% completion rate. I think they may have ran slightly more plays than us. We ran more plays longer / quicker than 20 yards than they did.

So I only support the tired because of TOP in some games but not in this example. Late, longer game winning drives against our defence is not new or a surprise.

[Blueforlife]

Neither is understanding the difference between good defence and bad defence over an extended period.  You need to support your arguments better and quit complaining about your perception of personal attacks. You can block or ignore but you may end up with only conversations with yourself.

Make better arguments if you want to engage with posters.

Other defensive considerations besides points allowed:

1. Sacks
2. Hits
3. Hurries
4. Knockdowns
5. Ints
6. TFL
7. Turnovers
8. Plays allowed
9. TOP
10. Impact of weather
11. Impact / noise of fans for at home games.

We haven't had  bad defence over a long period.  Multiple statistical categories back that up as mentioned previously.  I have brought that up previously, not re-hashing it now.

The forum rules clearly state that personal attacks are not allowed, I have repeatedly asked you to stop.

My arguments are well supported you simply discount those.  The most important stat is points allowed imo.  Those facts don't lie but you cherry pick bad games to somehow claim the entire season of data means nothing. I did agree with you that consistency has been an issue.

My arguments are fine, they just don't align with the herds opinion so they are not popular and countered often.  This is exactly how the forum was pre mini dynasty.  It's just how it is when the club struggles. 

There are other posters that have backed the opinion that the D wasn't as bad as you suggest last year and have suggested that it wasn't our biggest problem.

I haven't said that our current D is good, I have provided my areas of concern and suggested how we improve.  I have defended Younger, said it's too early to panic and suggested patience before we make our determination of how good we are.  I have deferred my judgement of the current D till 1/4 to 1/2 way.  On paper pre season I thought our D looked fine but thought we would need time for the new faces to settle in.  Never liked how we moved Kramdi.

There is a difference between not liking our schemes previously and accepting that they have been effective in the past.

I will keep countering and debating on here.  I will not block you because you provide good content and insights. You might not like how I post but its well within the rules and I value the diversity of posting styles and welcome all opinions on here.

All I ask is that you stop making it personal.  We won't agree on this but we can at least be civil about it.  Let's move on from this debate.  We both have made good points but are not in agreement and that's ok.

[Blue In BC]

We haven't had  bad defence over a long period.  Multiple statistical categories back that up as mentioned previously.  I have brought that up previously, not re-hashing it now.

The forum rules clearly state that personal attacks are not allowed, I have repeatedly asked you to stop.

My arguments we well supported you simply discount those.  The most important stat is points allowed.  Those facts don't lie but you cherry pick bad games to somehow claim the entire season of data means nothing.

My arguments are fine, they just don't align with the herds opinion so they are not popular and countered often.  This is exactly how the forum was pre mini dynasty.  It's just how it is when the club struggles. 

There are other posters that have backed the opinion that the D wasn't as bad as you suggest last year and have suggested that it wasn't our biggest problem.

I haven't said that our current D is good, I have provided my areas of concern and suggested how we improve.  I have defended Younger, said it's too early to panic and suggested patience before we make our determination of how good we are.  I have deferred my judgement of the current D till 1/4 to 1/2 way.  On paper pre season I thought our D looked fine but thought we would need time for the new faces to settle in.  Never liked how we moved Kramdi.

There is a difference between not liking our schemes previously and accepting that they have been effective in the past.

I will keep countering and debating on here.  I will not block you because you provide good content and insights. You might not like how I post but its well within the rules and I value the diversity of posting styles and welcome all opinions on here.

All I ask is that you stop making it personal.  We won't agree on this but we can at least be civil about it.  Let's move on from this debate.  We both have made good points but are not in agreement and that's ok.

What multiple statistics? You seem to lean on the points against. I listed other categories. Feel free to show where we ranked in some or all of those.

Only a few are panicing but we do recognize a pattern which simply would be stated as a bend but don't break scheme. That has a lot of cons and that's where we see the issues.

It's not something new that has just come up. This has been discussed at length going back to at least the 2024 system and before JY became the DC. It was a complaint against the Hall system as well.

Interesting. Looking at the current standings, it's quite possible that by the end of the weekend, the Bomber may rank 3rd in points allowed over 3 games. I don't think many of us would agree we're the 3rd best defence in the league.

[Blueforlife]

What multiple statistics? You seem to lean on the points against. I listed other categories. Feel free to show where we ranked in some or all of those.

Only a few are panicing but we do recognize a pattern which simply would be stated as a bend but don't break scheme. That has a lot of cons and that's where we see the issues.

It's not something new that has just come up. This has been discussed at length going back to at least the 2024 system and before JY became the DC. It was a complaint against the Hall system as well.

Not fact checked  (googled).  I thought we were top 3 in some of these (memory poor).

"The Winnipeg Blue Bombers allowed an average of 346.2 total yards of net offense per game during the 2025 CFL regular season, ranking as the third-best defense in the league.The defensive yards allowed can be broken down into the following categories:Passing Yards Allowed: 252.1 yards per game (2nd in the CFL)Rushing Yards Allowed: 94.1 yards per game (1st in the CFL)Points Allowed: 19.9 points per game (league low)Full league statistics and detailed weekly player metrics are available to review via the CFL Stats portal and the 2025 CFL Season Statistics PDF."

Yes we bend don't break at times.  I found that effective under Hall.  Some never liked it.

Yes only some are panicking correct.

The list of stats you brought up are great ones, no time or energy to do the homework.

Pros and cons with any scheme.  In the past the pros > cons.

This year jury is out imo.

I appreciate the tone of your last reply.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

This is where some of the stars diverge from reality and where you need to rely on a total understanding of defense for context.

We absolutely weren't the third best defense in the league last year. We were physically easy to play against, we really struggled against the top teams, generated few turnovers (largely because the pressure and sacks aren't there) and over time the unit has drifted from reason why we win, to 'lets hope they do just enough'.

Last year wasn't good enough, ultimately. And this year we've opened at a pace worse than last year.

It's not hard to do the math.

[Blue In BC]

This is where some of the stars diverge from reality and where you need to rely on a total understanding of defense for context.

We absolutely weren't the third best defense in the league last year. We were physically easy to play against, we really struggled against the top teams, generated few turnovers (largely because the pressure and sacks aren't there) and over time the unit has drifted from reason why we win, to 'lets hope they do just enough'.

Last year wasn't good enough, ultimately. And this year we've opened at a pace worse than last year.

It's not hard to do the math.

Good point about the physical aspect of defence. We make swarming tackles eventually but we are less punishing than many other teams.

An example of what we don't have is the LB hit on Oliveria that caused the fumble. He was smoked.