Younger's defense

[Tecno]

Again. I'm not talking about 2 games this season. It goes back into all of 2025 and before. Against good QB's we struggle against the pass and against good RB's we have issues.

Yes, the slow start *may* be forgivable (though still detrimental), but having the exact same problems we've had for YEARS is less so.

The flat ALWAYS having at least one side/middle wide open for a QB escape and free 2nd down conversion is disturbing.  It's been that way since at least the '23 GC when we let Cody regain most of 2nd & 17.  We still have not addressed this.  It's so bad even needs-a-walker BLM ran 10Y for a 1st down last game.

Giving up many pass explosions a game is another thing.  Every game.  We had completely solved that in '19 and '21 under Hall.  He used to say that was job #1.  Now: "nah, just take 60Y completions on us, it's fine brah."

Being garbage against the run is probably the one that hurts us the most.  Everything else stems from that.  And again, Hall had that solved back in the day.  We used to have the #1 run D.  Stove could shed any block and cream you.  Or Casey.  Heck, even Walker.  And our combined unit used to be stronger.

I'd be happy if we could solve even one of those problems and serious mitigate another.  I don't even need all 3.  But right now I'm not sure I can say we're even good at the other D aspects like short pass stop and takeaways!  It's like we suck at everything.  And it's all a continuation of the multi-year slide into the abyss.

Prove me wrong on Thursday.

[Tecno]

The game against the Elks could be a turning point but in which direction. Do we shut Rankin down or does he rush for another 150+ yards?

Try 200Y.  Pretty sure that's his avg so far this season.  He's a fantasy dream.  He gets 40-50 fantasy points every game when most backs are lucky to get 20 and many get 10.

If we limit Rankin to 150 combined I think that in itself would be a win, and we might win the game too.

I wonder what "best back in the league" Brady thinks about when he's watching Rankin do that?

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Went thru last year's losses with the game score and Brady's running yds.  Games Strev. played in are noted.

Week 5 Stamps 37 to 16 13-61 yds.
Week 7 Stamps 41 to 20 15-68 yds. (Strev 3/4 game)
Week 8 Argos 31 to 17 13-82 yds. (Strev 3/4 game)
Week 10 Stamps 28 to 27 12-68 yds.
Week 13 Sask. 34 to 30 5-24 yds.
Week 14 Sask  21 to 13 20-83 yds. (Strev 1/2 game)
Week 15 Ti-Cats 32 to 21 15-116 yds. (Strev full game)
Week 19 Elks 25 to 20 12-117 yds.

And in the biggest loss of the year, the playoff game, it was Montreal 42, Winnipeg 33 (and it was over at half really, 25-6 going into the locker rooms). Brady was 8-38.

[Tecno]

And in the biggest loss of the year, the playoff game, it was Montreal 42, Winnipeg 33 (and it was over at half really, 25-6 going into the locker rooms).

Not the best comparison.  MTL severely outplayed us the entire game, all 4Q's.  Even the 3rd Q we won it was only because of fortuitous takeaways as MTL got sloppy.  As soon as they stopped the slop they once again threw on us at will.

Yes, we did still have a shot until Brady fumbled, though.  But the fact remains the O did half of what MTL O did all game.  And Brady was mostly neutered as well.  If we had won, I'd say it was luck and we didn't deserve to win.  I'd still take it though!  Sometimes you need luck like that.

[bunker]

Went thru last year's losses with the game score and Brady's running yds.  Games Strev. played in are noted.

Week 5 Stamps 37 to 16 13-61 yds.
Week 7 Stamps 41 to 20 15-68 yds. (Strev 3/4 game)
Week 8 Argos 31 to 17 13-82 yds. (Strev 3/4 game)
Week 10 Stamps 28 to 27 12-68 yds.
Week 13 Sask. 34 to 30 5-24 yds.
Week 14 Sask  21 to 13 20-83 yds. (Strev 1/2 game)
Week 15 Ti-Cats 32 to 21 15-116 yds. (Strev full game)
Week 19 Elks 25 to 20 12-117 yds.

Thank you for doing the work.
What is your take home message from these stats?

[Blue In BC]

Thank you for doing the work.
What is your take home message from these stats?

Rough calculation was that we were outscored by 85 points in 8 games.

While it's true we didn't look bad in 2025 on defence on average, but that's deceiving. We we're 4-6 in our division. Clearly the west teams were better than the eastern teams where the worst 2 teams fell in the standings.

We got to play a few games that we won against back QB's.

Even when a team struggles on offence that doesn't mean the defence shouldn't be forcing the opponent into 2 and outs.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Not the best comparison.  MTL severely outplayed us the entire game, all 4Q's.  Even the 3rd Q we won it was only because of fortuitous takeaways as MTL got sloppy.  As soon as they stopped the slop they once again threw on us at will.

Yes, we did still have a shot until Brady fumbled, though.  But the fact remains the O did half of what MTL O did all game.  And Brady was mostly neutered as well.  If we had won, I'd say it was luck and we didn't deserve to win.  I'd still take it though!  Sometimes you need luck like that.

Agree with all that.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Thank you for doing the work.
What is your take home message from these stats?

Rough take, if Brady is not flowing freely, Zach can't always make up the difference with his arm. What distorts things is the number of losses Strev closed out, which diminishes his record of 4 and 1 significantly.  I can't think of a single time O'Shea gave up on winning and pulled a healthy Zach and put in Strev. to close out the game, so I suspect every one was injury related.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Not the best comparison.  MTL severely outplayed us the entire game, all 4Q's.  Even the 3rd Q we won it was only because of fortuitous takeaways as MTL got sloppy.  As soon as they stopped the slop they once again threw on us at will.

Yes, we did still have a shot until Brady fumbled, though.  But the fact remains the O did half of what MTL O did all game.  And Brady was mostly neutered as well.  If we had won, I'd say it was luck and we didn't deserve to win.  I'd still take it though!  Sometimes you need luck like that.

The offence was asleep for most of the first half, it was like the tortoise allowing the hare an insurmountable lead before getting started!

[Blue In BC]

The offence was asleep for most of the first half, it was like the tortoise allowing the hare an insurmountable lead before getting started!

We had the ball for nearly 10 minutes in the 1st Q. Fumbling in scoring range and missing an early FG were both major turning points and momentum changes. We had a chance to score 6 to 10 points but gave up 3 on the turnover return fumble.

I just re-watched the 1st Q but that's all I'm re-watching. I deleted the game from the PVR.

Generally I'm not impressed with Kramdi at safety. He's not making plays but that might be due to scheme and soft coverage.

Williams is getting better but he missed the tackle on that long run by Rankin. Why he was at the LOS is a puzzler.

[Waffler]

I just saw it as Edm got a good lead, took their foot off the gas and coasted a while but when they needed a score they got one. Three down football has killed the Younger defense more times than I care to remember. You can say this play here or that play there but one thing is consistently happening and that is the Younger defense can't get stops when it matters. This a trend going back years.

[Pete]

I agree, this game didnt do anything to deter from the weaknesses pointed out in this thread.
If anything it reaffirmed concerns such as
Kramdl as a safety is a good lb
Wilson has lost more than a step
Jones should be mlb
The decision to go after aged vets ie Ceresna and Moxey vs younger quicker ie Carney  and Allen is not looking good

[Sir Blue and Gold]

[

I just saw it as Edm got a good lead, took their foot off the gas and coasted a while but when they needed a score they got one. Three down football has killed the Younger defense more times than I care to remember. You can say this play here or that play there but one thing is consistently happening and that is the Younger defense can't get stops when it matters. This a trend going back years.

And it's because the whole unit is reactionary instead of trying to dictate terms. The secondary gives up major cushion yards even when the game is on the line and there are no more yards to give up. Everything happens in front of them. Quarterbacks just have to get the ball out quick while everyone is back pedaling and they'll have a career night. Over and over, and now season after season. It is the worst implementation of a professional defense I have maybe ever seen. I'm fine getting beat if we're not good enough. It sucks to lose because the system we're playing is not professional grade. The system always sucked. It's now been schemed and exploited and Younger can't or won't do anything differently.

Time for O'Shea to earn his cheque and make a hard decision for once or we're going to be sorry we traded away our first round pick.

[3rdand1.5]

After three games we can honestly say the defence isn't good enough to win....They have had moments, they have made some good plays, but as a whole they are not good, our record proves this, the stats prove this, and the eye test proves this.

Three games in multiple explosion plays given up, too many rushing yards given up (463) 171-171-121....they are just bad this year and three games IMO provides enough data, statistics and results to conclude they are bad....approximately 17% of the season is behind us and we have a winning percentage of 33% and are trending towards a 6-12 record and 2777 yards surrendered rushing almost 70% higher than our 5 year average....while our passing yards surrendered are middle of the pack....

So yes we have enough evidence to now say our defence is bad and Youngers system or the players he has in it are not good, if fact if the trends continue could be approaching modern day recordlike bad against the run.....

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I agree, this game didnt do anything to deter from the weaknesses pointed out in this thread.
If anything it reaffirmed concerns such as
Kramdl as a safety is a good lb
Wilson has lost more than a step
Jones should be mlb
The decision to go after aged vets ie Ceresna and Moxey vs younger quicker ie Carney  and Allen is not looking good

Good line!  Kramdi is certainly not playing the standard Safety role, more often than not he's down on the line or in the backfield trying to pre-emptively interrupt the play before it develops, while he leaves the baby sitter to cover his Safety duties. If Jake Kelly was on the field, I never once saw him.

Same with Tony Jones, he's constantly in the backfield trying to get his hands on the QB, Younger must be so in love with his athleticism he wants to use him as a speed rusher.