Younger's defense

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

what is younger's record as DC you ask?? its 21 wins and 15 losses, hardly stellar stats.

Well I'll be, that pretty much coincides with the Bombers downturn!

[Blueforlife]

His record indicates experience, success, continuity and his football background tells me that he can adapt.

He has lead a very good Bomber defense for a few years, which has been challenged lately.  His track record in football speak for itself.

Why don't you pull his Pop Warner record while you're at it?   

How'd he do in middle school volleyball?

Yes,  for sure, include how he did when Richie Hall was calling plays. Maybe we should go back to that. It's a heck of a lot better record than when he has been calling them (ESPECIALLY playoffs).

Making ridiculous suggestions adds nothing to the discussion.  It only adds to the weakness of your position on the matter imo.

 His record as pro coach for the Bomber is based on facts and 100% relevant to the discussion.  You can have an opinion but it should be backed up by facts.  Your words not mine. 

Replacing your DC after two games is as bad an idea as I have heard.  We have the ability for these two good to great defensive minds to figure this out together.  Paying 10 to 1 odds that ain't happening.

"coach" maybe, but not DC.  He's only on year 3 or 4 as DC?  3 x roughtly-20 = 60 games total

Not arguing his record is pretty good, though.  And even at least 1 season where the D carried the O.

Yup his D can preform well even when our O sucks.  This year our O will be average to great at times.  Receipe for success.

the thing is the record doesnt mean much if the other teams have now figured out how to beat it .

Many more games where they didn't beat it to one's they did.

what is younger's record as DC you ask?? its 21 wins and 15 losses, hardly stellar stats.

With the stinky O last year, not too shabby imo

Real easy to kick a dog when down.  People were punting at Hall pre mini dynasty run.  Hmmmm?

Will be a fun ride this season to see how this story ends.  The parity in the league won't make it easy but will make for awesome football.

Well I'll be, that pretty much coincides with the Bombers downturn!

The game has 3 phases, the D hasn't been the main issue.  Please provide us the defensive and offensive stats for last couple years.  I'll drop a hint, D been near top, O been a little lacking.  Don't fix what ain't broke but a little mending is ok lol.
#morefacts

[Tecno]

If Younger's system sucks and is doomed to lose, then why is Hall sitting there putting up with it?  He's present every game, every meeting.  He'd speak up if he thought there was a major problem.  And that's assuming my theory about Hall still being the big brain/boss is wrong...

What's more likely is both Younger & Hall both agree on whatever mad science it is they have swirling around their heads.  Hopefully they see what we do though and realize tweaks need to be made.  If it's personnel, change the personnel or change the scheme to suit the weak links you have.  If it's scheme that good teams have found the cheat code for, then tweak the schemes.

[Tecno]

what is younger's record as DC you ask?? its 21 wins and 15 losses, hardly stellar stats.

It wouldn't hurt as much if they'd get back to being dominant at home.  So many home losses last year and now this year (if the opener is anything to go by).  We're used to being 85% at home.

I know, I know, stupid to focus more on home games... but this is a business and you need to keep the fans happy.  Go 0-9 at home this season and see if you can still get sell-outs.

[bunker]

what is younger's record as DC you ask?? its 21 wins and 15 losses, hardly stellar stats.

I've got my concerns about Younger and our defense, but our offense is more responsible for this record than the defense, especially last year.

[Blueforlife]

I've got my concerns about Younger and our defense, but our offense is more responsible for this record than the defense, especially last year.

Yup, even a good D can look bad when on the field too much

It wouldn't hurt as much if they'd get back to being dominant at home.  So many home losses last year and now this year (if the opener is anything to go by).  We're used to being 85% at home.

I know, I know, stupid to focus more on home games... but this is a business and you need to keep the fans happy.  Go 0-9 at home this season and see if you can still get sell-outs.

We got spoiled but yes a big factor.  We want that home success to keep the house packed!

If Younger's system sucks and is doomed to lose, then why is Hall sitting there putting up with it?  He's present every game, every meeting.  He'd speak up if he thought there was a major problem.  And that's assuming my theory about Hall still being the big brain/boss is wrong...

What's more likely is both Younger & Hall both agree on whatever mad science it is they have swirling around their heads.  Hopefully they see what we do though and realize tweaks need to be made.  If it's personnel, change the personnel or change the scheme to suit the weak links you have.  If it's scheme that good teams have found the cheat code for, then tweak the schemes.

A very good likely take on the reality of the situation

[dd]

I m not so sure it's the system than I am it's the lack of talent. We never have effectively replace Alexander at safety, we used to have decent defensive tackles but did nothing when we lost stove and then sayles. We lost Jeffcoat and our pass rush has suffered ever since, sure we got ceresna, but Jefferson has aged out and does nothing but volleyball blocks. No pass rush threat from him, not like it used to be with him and Jeffcoat. Bighill aged out and we haven't had the dominant monster in the middle for seasons now. We lost a shutdown corner in ford and replaced him with 2 cornerbacks that get beat routinely. So add all that up and you could have Vince Lombardi coaching our D, it would still suck cause we ve lost too much talent and have failed to adequately replace it

[bunker]

I m not so sure it's the system than I am it's the lack of talent. We never have effectively replace Alexander at safety, we used to have decent defensive tackles but did nothing when we lost stove and then sayles. We lost Jeffcoat and our pass rush has suffered ever since, sure we got ceresna, but Jefferson has aged out and does nothing but volleyball blocks. No pass rush threat from him, not like it used to be with him and Jeffcoat. Bighill aged out and we haven't had the dominant monster in the middle for seasons now. We lost a shutdown corner in ford and replaced him with 2 cornerbacks that get beat routinely. So add all that up and you could have Vince Lombardi coaching our D, it would still suck cause we ve lost too much talent and have failed to adequately replace it

I think it's both

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I think it's a few things:

The system forces some tough personnel choices which can make it hard to scout or recruit for especially at the spots with the greatest degree of difference, linebacker and safety and moderately on the defensive line.

The approach looks and feels exceptionally bad when it doesn't work due to how passive it is. The eye test is terrible. High pressure defenses can also get shredded but they at least go down making the odd play. That feels (and I'd argue it is) better even if it's a tough day at the office for both.

The last is my biggest concern though: Younger has really only had success in a three lineman, 9 drop base package and when you take that away from him because either: the offense has schemed it or he doesn't have the hybid athletes he need to pull it off, he isn't able to do anything else.

I am hard on Younger and some of you like him but that last point is, for my money, undeniably true and the biggest problem on that side of the ball over the last year and half. It been three years and he's done one thing well and that one thing is being increasingly countered by OCs/QBs who have put in the time.

[Slingin Sammy]

I think it's a few things:

The system forces some tough personnel choices which can make it hard to scout or recruit for especially at the spots with the greatest degree of difference, linebacker and safety and moderately on the defensive line.

The approach looks and feels exceptionally bad when it doesn't work due to how passive it is. The eye test is terrible. High pressure defenses can also get shredded but they at least go down making the odd play. That feels (and I'd argue it is) better even if it's a tough day at the office for both.

The last is my biggest concern though: Younger has really only had success in a three lineman, 9 drop base package and when you take that away from him because either: the offense has schemed it or he doesn't have the hybid athletes he need to pull it off, he isn't able to do anything else.

I am hard on Younger and some of you like him but that last point is, for my money, undeniably true and the biggest problem on that side of the ball over the last year and half. It been three years and he's done one thing well and that one thing is being increasingly countered by OCs/QBs who have put in the time.

I agree. We've seen more four man pressures this year but we're playing soft zones behind that are being shredded.  There seems to be an unwillingness to play man coverage; maybe that's due to a lack in confidence regarding personnel, or philosophy or both.

It's been frustrating through the first two weeks seeing teams get big chunks especially on second and long...not through YAC yards...but instead by having receivers easily run their routes to the sticks and beyond because there's a gaping hole in the zone or we're giving a 15-20 yard cushion off the line or both...that can't be by design...can it?

[bunker]

I agree. We've seen more four man pressures this year but we're playing soft zones behind that are being shredded.  There seems to be an unwillingness to play man coverage; maybe that's due to a lack in confidence regarding personnel, or philosophy or both.

It's been frustrating through the first two weeks seeing teams get big chunks especially on second and long...not through YAC yards...but instead by having receivers easily run their routes to the sticks and beyond because there's a gaping hole in the zone or we're giving a 15-20 yard cushion off the line or both...that can't be by design...can it?

If so this a big fail on Walters. We are paying huge money in our secondary. Holm,Nichols and Kramdi all making 180,000 per year, and I would bet Moxey is making at least 120-130,000 as a free agent signing, maybe more. We likely have the highest paid secondary in the league.

[bunker]

The other thing that gets lost in the discussion of the defense is that football is ultimately entertainment. Obviously its more fun when we win, but for me, how we win affects my enjoyment of the game. If we play a soft, prevent defense all game, with no pressure on the QB and no physicality, but eak out win, it lacks the same satisfaction, compared to the days where we emphasized winning the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball, and were usually the more physical team on the field. Yes, the W is the most important thing in the end for the coaches, but for the fans, it does matter how we win.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I m not so sure it's the system than I am it's the lack of talent. We never have effectively replace Alexander at safety, we used to have decent defensive tackles but did nothing when we lost stove and then sayles. We lost Jeffcoat and our pass rush has suffered ever since, sure we got ceresna, but Jefferson has aged out and does nothing but volleyball blocks. No pass rush threat from him, not like it used to be with him and Jeffcoat. Bighill aged out and we haven't had the dominant monster in the middle for seasons now. We lost a shutdown corner in ford and replaced him with 2 cornerbacks that get beat routinely. So add all that up and you could have Vince Lombardi coaching our D, it would still suck cause we ve lost too much talent and have failed to adequately replace it

Don't know where to find the turnover stats anymore but it seems there's been a big decline in defensive turnovers created in the last few seasons, which used to create a huge advantage for the offence going back well before they won the GC in 2019.  Ty Ford was the last ball hawk in house.

[bunker]

Don't know where to find the turnover stats anymore but it seems there's been a big decline in defensive turnovers created in the last few seasons, which used to create a huge advantage for the offence going back well before they won the GC in 2019.  Ty Ford was the last ball hawk in house.

And unfortunately, it seems to have coincided with Zach throwing more interceptions on offense over the last year or two.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

If so this a big fail on Walters. We are paying huge money in our secondary. Holm,Nichols and Kramdi all making 180,000 per year, and I would bet Moxey is making at least 120-130,000 as a free agent signing, maybe more. We likely have the highest paid secondary in the league.

Nichols had lost a step last year and has lost another one this year. He'd be okay playing in Saskatchewan but it's really hard playing in our secondary in our system. It's easily the hardest defensive back assignment in the league and it's not particularly close. Younger needs four Evan Holm clones. I really have no idea why everyone loves Kramdi. He has always been an average player who gets outsized respect because he's a Canadian who can play a bit in a spot where usually they don't, but I have to say he's also a very average SAM and, so far, a pretty below average safety. And if you don't believe me, just follow the move: he's such a good SAM they moved him to safety this year and they only did that because of his passport.