Younger's defense

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I'm pretty critical of our defense but the season is absolutely not over by any stretch.

I think Younger needs an intervention if we're going to do anything down the stretch but if things are going to bottom out, good to do so in week two. There's plenty of time to course correct.

[Blueforlife]

I'm pretty critical of our defense but the season is absolutely not over by any stretch.

I think Younger needs an intervention if we're going to do anything down the stretch but if things are going to bottom out, good to do so in week two. There's plenty of time to course correct.

Terrible idea imo.  Intervention on a proven, respected veteran coach backed by one of the better defensive minds, no thanks.  Tweek, evolve, fix schemes.  Try different rotations or people in different roles.  Stay the course.  Game 2.  Wow. 

D has issues but you are prescribing the wrong meds imo. Heard this story before, some wanted Halls head before our mini dynasty run.  That worked out ok and this will as well imo, but likely more work to do this time than last.

Agree nothing but time.  Too early to call this bottom.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I posit Jones to WILL because teams reamed our edges in the run game.  Jones will stop weak side runs.  (Same reason Griffin to SAM.)  I also posit Kyrie is the brains, Jones the muscle, thus Kyrie to MLB ("QB of D").

Whether this is actually working out so far is debatable.

In terms of Jones vs all CFL WILL/MLBs, I'd give him a 7.  Beverrette would be above him.  I don't value "take-yer-head-off" as much at MLB so I also rate him highly, 6-7 at MLB.  His 2025 numbers don't lie.  Jones is a steal at his SMS hit.  The only downside is he's not cerebral like Biggie.

Re-watched the Ti-Cat game last night and have to conclude, Tony Jones, Kramdi, Kyrie and Griffin are not the problem, plenty of plays they are making trouble in the backfield.  Individually they were making plays whenever the ball came their way, unfortunately they were not always in the right place at the right time to shut down Roundtree.  I would estimate Jones and Kyrie shared equal snaps at MLB, so the position chart is not that important.

It's difficult to move Kramdi to Safety as he's better in the box making big plays but Griffin is bigger, faster and more efficient, if less flashy.  He doesn't necessarily make the big play but he covers his side very well and is always in on the tackle, if anything he plays conservatively. Kramdi may learn to adapt his game to Safety but running and pass coverage doesn't really suit his style, maybe when Allen comes back they figure out the ratio to allow him to play high while Kramdi assumes the role of a roaming 4th linebacker.

[dd]

We need a safety and CB's that can cover, Moxey got hosed last game severly. You aint winning anything with that secondary, Holm is the only one worthy of starting, others need to improve or be replaced, as they are sub-par talent wise, always trailing the play, never breaking up the play like other secondaries do.

[theaardvark]

O'Shea said during the offseason he should have been more involved with his coordinators last season, that comment may have been spurred by post season conversations he had with players during exit interviews or maybe there were things he saw on both sides of the ball he didn't like, but hesitated to interfere with their game planning.

Wonder if he is keeping a tighter check this season?  He's probably out of his league when it comes to play calling or the schemes they're using, but he can definitely push them in any direction he wants them to go.

 

I think that comment was about rookie OC Hogan.

Having JY at DC with Hall overseeing, and Condell at OC, pretty sure he has confidence in the way they run their squads in general.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I think that comment was about rookie OC Hogan.

Having JY at DC with Hall overseeing, and Condell at OC, pretty sure he has confidence in the way they run their squads in general.

Even so, a HC has to keep his finger in the pie on both sides of the ball to understand the dynamic in the room, providing no guidance to coordinators is risky to career longevity.

[blue_or_die]

I don't post a lot but I too made comments about our D that I think need to change ie run D, middle LB switch etc.

I took markf's comment as a reminder that it's only 2 games this year so maybe we need to see what if any adjustments are made.

I know some will say that we have had these issues in past years as well but I think the team made some very good moves - Ceresna and Broxton as examples to address those areas many thought needed addressing.

Just my opinion.

I don't understand why when people discuss things (especially things that are true) and suggest change is needed in order to correct, some people react by saying "we just need to wait and see". Obviously we will wait and see - as fans we have zero influence lol. Are we not supposed to talk about these truths because we have to assume they will get taken care of because players and coaches have done good in the past, or because we did a good job in free agency like you suggest? It's so thought-terminating.

[Jesse]

Terrible idea imo.  Intervention on a proven, respected veteran coach backed by one of the better defensive minds, no thanks.  Tweek, evolve, fix schemes.  Try different rotations or people in different roles.  Stay the course.  Game 2.  Wow. 

D has issues but you are prescribing the wrong meds imo. Heard this story before, some wanted Halls head before our mini dynasty run.  That worked out ok and this will as well imo, but likely more work to do this time than last.

Agree nothing but time.  Too early to call this bottom.

Would you really call Jordan Younger a vet coach? This is his first job as a DC. He's done it for 2 years. And he took over a veteran laden group that starts very few Canadians.

[kkc60]

Would you really call Jordan Younger a vet coach? This is his first job as a DC. He's done it for 2 years. And he took over a veteran laden group that starts very few Canadians.

I think that's the frustrating part with the defense underperforming as it has. It's a lot of vets and 3/4 DI spots (yes, Vaval is STs but still). If the struggles continue, there really is no excuse for Younger. Yeah, injuries happen but other teams have them too.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Younger is totally unproven. He had some good initial success and hasn't at all been able to adapt to the adjustments that offensive coordinators have made over the last year and a half when they face his system.

From where the unit was when he took over, to where it is now, you can only conclude there's been regression. How much is up for debate. I'd say a concerning amount, but there's some factors to account for also. I also put more of the personnel issues at his feet at this point, his system needs a certain type of player and he's largely had a chance to mould the pipeline to his liking, yet the results keep getting worse.

[Blueforlife]

Younger is totally unproven. He had some good initial success and hasn't at all been able to adapt to the adjustments that offensive coordinators have made over the last year and a half when they face his system.

From where the unit was when he took over, to where it is now, you can only conclude there's been regression. How much is up for debate. I'd say a concerning amount, but there's some factors to account for also. I also put more of the personnel issues at his feet at this point, his system needs a certain type of player and he's largely had a chance to mould the pipeline to his liking, yet the results keep getting worse.

He isn't unproven.  Hogan was unproven.  I firmly believe we are well positioned in our defensive coaches.

I think that's the frustrating part with the defense underperforming as it has. It's a lot of vets and 3/4 DI spots (yes, Vaval is STs but still). If the struggles continue, there really is no excuse for Younger. Yeah, injuries happen but other teams have them too.

Had a good D for a long time, 2 games in not so much let her cook before you turn off the smoker early.

Would you really call Jordan Younger a vet coach? This is his first job as a DC. He's done it for 2 years. And he took over a veteran laden group that starts very few Canadians.

Yes I do.  He found some incredible success early.

His resume speaks for itself

Jordan Younger - Wikipedia https://share.google/5SY3EkzhQ61KEXPzq

[Sir Blue and Gold]

You can probably say he's a young, exciting, up and coming defensive mind with some new ideas.

But in no professional line of work that I can think of would two and a bit years on the job really be considered experienced.

You can have an opinion but you can't create your own facts.

[Blueforlife]

You can probably say he's a young, exciting, up and coming defensive mind with some new ideas.

But in no professional line of work that I can think of would two and a bit years on the job really be considered experienced.

You can have an opinion but you can't create your own facts.

He has played football for a long time, his resume includes years of coaching. He is anchored by one of the best in the biz.  A younger veteran coach imo.  His resume is so much more than two years at DC.

My opinion is based on the fact he has been in football at many levels for decades.  You seam to be ignoring the facts more than I to suit your narrative of an intervention which I'll pay 10 to 1 odds that ain't happening.

He has 4 cups.  If that's not proven and veteran what is? Yes he ain't Ritchie Hall or Dave Ritchie level (yet).  It's ok to consider someone's else point of view.  The truth likely lies in the middle of two polarized positions.

He has been in our system since 2018.  Guess all those years don't count.  Telling me to use facts is an old line imo, I believe wiki did that for me.  Bit of years on the job..... right.

Some don't like his system and that's ok but let's  don't down play his successful career to date.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

He has played football for a long time, his resume includes years of coaching. He is anchored by one of the best in the biz.  A younger veteran coach imo.  His resume is so much more than two years at DC.

My opinion is based on the fact he has been in football at many levels for decades.  You seam to be ignoring the facts more than I to suit your narrative of an intervention which I'll pay 10 to 1 odds that ain't happening.

He has 4 cups.  If that's not proven and veteran what is? Yes he ain't Ritchie Hall or Dave Ritchie level (yet).  It's ok to consider someone's else point of view.  The truth likely lies in the middle of two polarized positions.

He has been in our system since 2018.  Guess all those years don't count.  Telling me to use facts is an old line imo, I believe wiki did that for me.  Bit of years on the job..... right.

Some don't like his system and that's ok but let's  don't down play his successful career to date.

His background in football got him the job. It doesn't mean he'll be a good coordinator.

Generally speaking, as you progress in your career the things that you were really good at, that got you the promotion in the first place, are not the things that define your success in the next one.

Being a good defensive back is no guarantee you'll be a good positional coach and being a good positional coach is no guarantee you'll be a good coordinator which is no guarantee you'll be a good head coach.

The skills you need and require at each level change drastically. It's true for sports, business, and just about anything else.

[Tecno]

We need a safety and CB's that can cover, Moxey got hosed last game severly. You aint winning anything with that secondary, Holm is the only one worthy of starting, others need to improve or be replaced, as they are sub-par talent wise, always trailing the play, never breaking up the play like other secondaries do.

Seems harsh.  I always used to wonder why Mafia was so darn harsh with DBs.  Fogg, Randle, Moe, Taylor... all just used up and tossed aside.  I always thought they were cut way too early.

But it turns out DBs, all but the most exceptional ones, lose it super fast & young.  Mafia used to recognize this.  They were ruthless in their cuts.

It would appear that's what we need to start doing again.  And I need to be less sentimental.  Moxey looks like Moe & Randle after their return from injury.  Nichols maybe like Fogg: just rapidly losing it.

Luckily Holm seems more like Sayles: a guy with longevity.  Major is young and could be the next big thing.  I liked Bonds and would ask him back.  Maybe splash FA at DB isn't a good idea anymore.