GDT Tor at Mtl, Fri Jun 12, 6:00PM

[Tecno]

lol, tech is talking about fantasy and trying to translate it to the field.

Well, when a RB gets a massive fantasy score, like Rankin the other week, it's because they are busting the game wide open.  Like 2-3 TDs and 125+ yards.  I'm pretty sure Brady hasn't had a game like that in the last 365 days.

Yes, fantasy doesn't capture value as a decoy, or blocker, and probably other things.  Yes, Brady is valuable for those things.

But sometimes a RB needs to carry the team on his back and the best RBs will have blow-up games.  At least the other ones do... Rountree last week.  Rankin the other week.  Scott vs us in ESF.  Why is it all these other RBs, mostly noobs or mediocres, get high production games with multiple TDs and big yards, and yet Brady doesn't?  If he's the best, then either the rest of the team & coaches are letting him down all the time, or...

[Tecno]

The mental gymnastics it takes to downplay a homegrown tailback amassing four consecutive 1000-yard seasons (totaling over 5000 yards), two MOC awards, a MOP award, and numerous other accolades, and then label him as mediocre, because he "didn't really help" in two games...

But it's most games.  Even his high yardage games he gets at most 1 TD.

What would Brady's stats look like if he was on a run-last team?  Would he have gotten all of those 1000 yard seasons?  Again, remember, unless the sky is falling WPG will keep trying to run the ball.  That helps any RB's stats.

And again, I'm not saying Brady is bad.  He's very good.  But you watch all of the other games the last 2 weeks and see the game-changing production, moves, gash & burst of the other (supposedly lesser) RBs, and... don't you want that for us??  Because I watched Brady get stuffed at 3Y most of the night vs HAM.  That's partly why we lost.

[Tecno]

Brady isn't Harris.  Harris wasn't Cornish.  There, I said it.

No one could stop Cornish.  Period.  When Harris was here he'd literally win entire games for us himself, and at times could not be stopped.  Even in the final 3 mins up 1 score we were known for AH just grinding the clock getting 5-6Y every snap, no passes for a whole series and everyone knew he was going to run it and no team could stop him.  TSN used to note this all the time.  It didn't matter if the entire D was in the box on mega run blitz.  He'd still gash you.  Remember?

Brady... he's great, but outside of a couple of games in my memory, doesn't really do that.  Harris won us 2 cups being unstoppable.  Brady lost us 3 being stoppable.  It may hurt, but it's true.  No, it's not all Brady's fault.  Yes, maybe Harris had a better team around him, or weaker competition.  But the fact remains that when it got really tough, Harris (and Cornish) would somehow get it done.

Yes, Brady will probably surpass Harris in records eventually.  But that's partially due to availability and resiliency and health.  Clearly Brady is far more disciplined, and he's heretofore avoided the lady drama that ruined AH during covid.

And maybe our OL will wise up and start making better holes for him, and REC/TE/FB blockers will actually engage D instead of air.  Maybe Condell will drill in them better schemes and find ways to work to Brady's strengths.  Maybe someone will block that edge guy who comes in to trip Brady while he's deciding on a hole.

Maybe they'll all figure it out and make Brady look like Rountree last game or Scott in the ESF did against us.  And at that moment I'll be the first one to say Brady is now great.  And if they all do this another 2-3 seasons, then I'll say Brady is better than AH and Cornish.

[Jesse]

Brady's going to pass Harris in less time because he runs for more yards than Harris did.

Once again, Brady had 137 yards last week. No, he doesn't wrack up the TDs because he doesn't bust long ones and we always get our QB to run them in for some reason (which I hate).

Any team can take any player out of the game, it just opens up other things. Hamilton took out Brady but allowed 400 yards passing. It would have been a losing strategy if our D had showed up for the game. You keep saying he runs for 3Y a pop when his career average is 5.5 and hasn't dipped below 5.7 in the past 4 years. It's 6.3 yards across the first 2 weeks this year.

[dd]

Are other RB's that good or our OL is not up to snuff?? Rag on Brady all you want, but the OL has to open up holes for him to run through. When he gets stuffed its because someone missed a block/assignment. Our O line is better than last year, but hardly a powerhouse and that affects both the running and passing game.

[Tecno]

You keep saying he runs for 3Y a pop when his career average is 5.5 and hasn't dipped below 5.7 in the past 4 years. It's 6.3 yards across the first 2 weeks this year.

You're getting stuck in the stats.  Instead, think back to '18, '19, '21 with AH33.  Or go watch some of those games.  I studied those games to death, especially in '19.  I don't know what the stats are, but AH did more to win those games than Brady is doing.  It's immediately obvious to the naked eye.  Just as it is if you go back further and see that AH33 couldn't hold a candle to Cornish.  It just is true, if you take the emotion and recency bias out of it.

Yes, Brady good; yes not all his fault; yes OL in '18-'21 probably better; yes maybe Brady can overcome and look better than AH.  But we're losing games Right Now.  I'm ornery O is so easy & effortless for HAM, SSK, BC and so darn hard for us.  I single out Brady, but it's the whole WFC, from '24 to now.

[Tecno]

Our O line is better than last year, but hardly a powerhouse and that affects both the running and passing game.

And it's been a problem since '24.  So why doesn't WFC solve it??  HAM has our Dobson & Ko-man in a fairly revamped line-up and they get instant gel and gaping holes for no-name like our D is the j.v. squad for easy 25Y explosions.

Our OL is still trying to "gel" and couldn't make a Brady hole if there was a 30kg BBQ dinner waiting for them on the other side.  (They have improved in pass-pro though.)

Make it make sense.  Should we start looking at the rarely-mentioned Costello??  That's a common thread throughout all these years of no-hole suckage.

[blue_gold_84]

But it's most games.  Even his high yardage games he gets at most 1 TD.

This is what moving the goalposts look like.

You're getting stuck in the stats.

What other metric should be used to evaluate players? Vibes?

Name a player over the last three seasons who's done more on the offensive side of the ball than Oliveira.

[ModAdmin]

You're getting stuck in the stats.  Instead, think back to '18, '19, '21 with AH33.  Or go watch some of those games.  I studied those games to death, especially in '19.  I don't know what the stats are, but AH did more to win those games than Brady is doing.  It's immediately obvious to the naked eye.  Just as it is if you go back further and see that AH33 couldn't hold a candle to Cornish.  It just is true, if you take the emotion and recency bias out of it.

Yes, Brady good; yes not all his fault; yes OL in '18-'21 probably better; yes maybe Brady can overcome and look better than AH.  But we're losing games Right Now.  I'm ornery O is so easy & effortless for HAM, SSK, BC and so darn hard for us.  I single out Brady, but it's the whole WFC, from '24 to now.

Here is what you are not considering - you are comparing 2 different players on 2 different teams. So not only the talent of the 2 players should be considered but also the overall talent of the teams. No one player is responsible for wins. No one player is responsible for losses. Too many variables. Bombers didn't win just because of Harris nor did they lose just because of Brady. Just sayin'.

[dd]

And it's been a problem since '24.  So why doesn't WFC solve it??  HAM has our Dobson & Ko-man in a fairly revamped line-up and they get instant gel and gaping holes for no-name like our D is the j.v. squad for easy 25Y explosions.

Our OL is still trying to "gel" and couldn't make a Brady hole if there was a 30kg BBQ dinner waiting for them on the other side.  (They have improved in pass-pro though.)

Make it make sense.  Should we start looking at the rarely-mentioned Costello??  That's a common thread throughout all these years of no-hole suckage.

Just saying BO can't run through holes that aren't there, and ZC8 can't pass if he's being sacked and pressured continuously. Last year was a joke, this year he's at least getting some time to throw, but our running game stinks and because the fat boys can't block.

[theaardvark]

According to 3DN, Chad Kelly and HC Mike Miller got into an altercation early in the 2nd Q and Miller ended up pushing Kelly away, look forward to a mid season trade to the RB's for Dru Brown + a bunch of other assets.

https://3downnation.com/2026/06/13/the-emotions-of-the-game-toronto-argonauts-unconcerned-after-sideline-spat-between-chad-kelly-mike-miller/

Not sure Kelly is tradeable.  The contract and the baggage...

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Not sure Kelly is tradeable.  The contract and the baggage...

C'mon Dinwiddie wouldn't care, he'd welcome Chad with open arms and a punch in the mouth.

I don't think Pinball has forgotten the last bad QB trade he made though. 

[Tecno]

C'mon Dinwiddie wouldn't care, he'd welcome Chad with open arms and a punch in the mouth.

Kelly is a top-3 QB still, clearly.  And Dinwiddie has no one there in OTT.  So ya, he'd be dying to get Kelly again.

And maybe that's the play: Kelly make his new coach so miserable and embarrassed that TOR is forced to let Kelly walk.  Have to be careful though, need to do it in such a way you make TOR hate you but don't get in any league hot water.  Don't want to get suspended.

It's like a CFL soap opera!