GDT Tor at Mtl, Fri Jun 12, 6:00PM

[ModAdmin]

To be fair, every RB has different skill sets. Jay Washington was the fastest player in the CFL during his time here. He could get outside and outrun everybody. Charles Roberts could make opponents miss tackling him in small spaces.

Oliveria is not slow but he's not going to ramble off on 80 yard gallops. He will run over you and it will take more than one to take him down when he's past the LOS. He's more of the bruiser / big body type RB and is very effective. He's become a very good receiving threat.

Some RB's like Craig Ellis had a nice combination of all things.

I don't think it's fair to suggest Oliveria is lacking a lot but then it's a point of view. He's not an elusive RB like a Roberts type but he is more capable of blocking than Roberts.

You aren't going to see Oliveria returning punts or K/O's either. He's more of a straight ahead downhill runner.

Skill sets have trade offs, speed versus power for example.

Bomber fans are lucky to have BO and the fact he's a local Canadian kid is a bonus.

I wouldn't mind having a Leo Lewis, Dave Raimey, Richard Crump or Jay Washington type on our roster somewhere ( I'm dating myself ).

No disagreement from me that RBs have different sets of skills.  Words matter though and for the poster to suggest Brady "lacks a lot" is not only a disservice to a great player but a  mischaracterization of his skill and level of play.

BTW, I saw Raimey, Lewis, Crump and Washington play too!  All great players. 

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

To be fair, every RB has different skill sets. Jay Washington was the fastest player in the CFL during his time here. He could get outside and outrun everybody. Charles Roberts could make opponents miss tackling him in small spaces.

Oliveria is not slow but he's not going to ramble off on 80 yard gallops. He will run over you and it will take more than one to take him down when he's past the LOS. He's more of the bruiser / big body type RB and is very effective. He's become a very good receiving threat.

Some RB's like Craig Ellis had a nice combination of all things.

I don't think it's fair to suggest Oliveria is lacking a lot but then it's a point of view. He's not an elusive RB like a Roberts type but he is more capable of blocking than Roberts.

You aren't going to see Oliveria returning punts or K/O's either. He's more of a straight ahead downhill runner.

Skill sets have trade offs, speed versus power for example.

Bomber fans are lucky to have BO and the fact he's a local Canadian kid is a bonus.

I wouldn't mind having a Leo Lewis, Dave Raimey, Richard Crump or Jay Washington type on our roster somewhere ( I'm dating myself ).

I preferred Steve Beaird over Crump!

[ModAdmin]

Oliveira is a fantastic running back but he can't really threaten the perimeter so defenses can play a lot of stacked boxes against him. If roster sizes were bigger we'd surely pair him with more of a speed guy. In the NFL he'd more factor in as a goal line guy versus a generational do it all back type talent. Good player, but techno is right that he doesn't really have every run in the bag. Few do though, especially up here, although there are definitely guys who are more generalists than Brady.

Certainly he is not going to outrun speed players and you have identified one attribute he lacks.  But that does not equate to the statement he "lacks a lot".  That is my only issue.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Certainly he is not going to outrun speed players and you have identified one attribute he lacks.  But that does not equate to the statement he "lacks a lot".  That is my only issue.

Yah, he doesn't have a 5th gear but the prospect of tackling Brady at full speed must be frightening for a skinny little DB, it must feel like throwing themselves under a train.

[dd]

Brady is not a flashy scat back, rather a bruiser like the Bus was, in fact, BO is the mini-bus!! He can catch passes with the best of them, blocks and runs like a beast. I got no complaints about him or his apparent 'skills' he's lacking.

[bunker]

Brady is not a flashy scat back, rather a bruiser like the Bus was, in fact, BO is the mini-bus!! He can catch passes with the best of them, blocks and runs like a beast. I got no complaints about him or his apparent 'skills' he's lacking.

He ticks almost all the important boxes, great inside runner, reads holes well, difficult to bring down and breaks tackles, generally good ball security with some occasional lapses, good blocker, good hands, reads well off Zach as an outlet receiver. And he's proven pretty durable in a tough position. When I made the comment about Theiss, it was not to suggest that I'd rather have Theiss, or that I'm not thrilled with Brady as our back, it was just an observation that one aspect he lacks is the short burst speed to make him effective as an ouside runner. Bombers try to mitigate that by getting other players like Demski involved in the outside running game.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Brady doing as well as any RB, currently #2 in yards gained with the better average.

Roundtree HAM   2   31   147   0   4.7   23

Oliveira  WPG   2   23   145   1   6.3   21

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Certainly he is not going to outrun speed players and you have identified one attribute he lacks.  But that does not equate to the statement he "lacks a lot".  That is my only issue.

Fair. And agree. It is probably the only thing not on the bingo card. It is notable gap in practice though as it keeps everyone up and tight. The by-product of it is that it indirectly puts more pressure on the offensive line in terms of blitz pickups with teams not having to play as wide. A solve could be Elgersma if Zach retires soon - just having him be able to run a read with Brady and then getting the QB outside would help a lot. Unfortuntely, with Zach and Brady back there the offense lacks lateral speed which is sometimes pretty tough. We use the receiver sweep as a bit of a counterbalance but it's never as good as just having the ability to do it with the guys back there.

[Tecno]

For like 20 weeks of football now I see that when teams want to shut Brady down, they shut Brady down.  In other words, he can be shut down.

Then you watch other teams and their RBs, some stars, some no-names, are consistently gashing good D's for 20, 30, 40 yards at a time.  And yes, they are doing it outside, inside, A, B and C gap, whatever it takes.

Look how many runs Brady got shutdown on vs HAM.  0,1,2 & 3Y runs galore.  Fewer 6,7,8,9 yard ones that you really need to stick with the run game.  And almost never any explosions.

I also see Brady get tackled by a hand on the foot from an outside-in rusher coming across the line.  Or the first LB who get in the hole.  Or a shedding DL.  It's not the famous "5 guys to take him down" on many (most?) runs.  Only if he gets to second level (7+ yards) does he seem to take on the beastmode persona.

I thought it was the OL.  Or maybe I was hoping it was the OL.  Maybe it still is.  Broxton hasn't helped much.  Yet.  With a new C, and still iffy LG, and new-to-RT Broxton, they may still figure it out.  Maybe.  There is still hope, and time.  It's abundantly clear Brady isn't getting the proper blocking support he needs.

This is the same as my "our team isn't as good as the best teams" post.  Brady is very good, and I'm glad we have him (but if he was an IMP, no one would be getting excited, he would be paid half as much, and might have been left to walk in FA).  BUT, the other top team RBs are looking better -- at a cheaper price.  (To be fair, a lot of that might be OL and scheme, not RB.)  For example, the HAM run game (all aspects) made ours look very weak.

As for the stats, get the median run length, and std deviations.  The avgs between Brady and, say, Rountree don't tell the whole story.  Many other RBs are ripping you a new 25Y gash or getting stuffed LoS.  Brady gets you a consistent 2-6Y most games, with little variation.  Those gashes and 7-10 yarders tend to win you games, whereas getting 3Y most of a game doesn't help anything.

And if Brady & the OL & OC don't like this, they can prove me wrong (soon!) in the upcoming games.

[Tecno]

Are we talking about the same player that has recorded 4 consecutive 1,000 yard seasons?  That guy "lacks a lot"?

Brady didn't really help in the ESF, or the HAM game last week.  1000/season is only 55/game.  Any mediocre RB can do that, especially on a team that commits to the run, like WPG does.  The real key is not getting injured.

Taking Brady is usually a bad deal in fantasy.  Rankin in week 1 was far & away the best RB.  What would have our game looked like vs HAM if we had Rankin doing that for us!!  And with a suspect EDM OL!!

I see what other teams have and are doing, and I wonder why we can't have that... Again, not saying Brady is bad, just saying why can't we get better results.  The moneyball situation.

[ModAdmin]

Brady didn't really help in the ESF, or the HAM game last week.  1000/season is only 55/game.  Any mediocre RB can do that, especially on a team that commits to the run, like WPG does.  The real key is not getting injured.

Taking Brady is usually a bad deal in fantasy.  Rankin in week 1 was far & away the best RB.  What would have our game looked like vs HAM if we had Rankin doing that for us!!  And with a suspect EDM OL!!

I see what other teams have and are doing, and I wonder why we can't have that... Again, not saying Brady is bad, just saying why can't we get better results.  The moneyball situation.

A veiled reference to Brady as equivalent to a "mediocre running back" is straight out ludicrous.  You are better than that.  Better results for Brady means the rest of the team and the coaches have to put Brady in the best position to be better.  It is not all on Brady!  I would argue he is one of the best, if not THE best player currently on the
Bombers and rapidly becoming one of the best running backs in CFL history. 

He clearly has work yet to do but no one should minimize the contributions has has made to this team since he was initially signed.

[Jesse]

lol, tech is talking about fantasy and trying to translate it to the field.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Brady didn't really help in the ESF, or the HAM game last week.  1000/season is only 55/game.  Any mediocre RB can do that, especially on a team that commits to the run, like WPG does.  The real key is not getting injured.

Taking Brady is usually a bad deal in fantasy.  Rankin in week 1 was far & away the best RB.  What would have our game looked like vs HAM if we had Rankin doing that for us!!  And with a suspect EDM OL!!

I see what other teams have and are doing, and I wonder why we can't have that... Again, not saying Brady is bad, just saying why can't we get better results.  The moneyball situation.

Opposing teams fixating on Brady is the #1 item in their game plan, especially if the game has extra playoff significance.  Same thing often happened with Harris, one great game followed by a dud, mainly because everybody knows Wpg. loves to run the ball first, making their offence super predictable. After the last game watch for teams to spy Brady slipping out of the backfield removing him as Zach's easiest check down option. 

QB's like Rourke, Kelly and BLM can get by without a running game if needed relying solely on their arms, Collaros, not so much.  Successfully take the running game away from Zach and his mediocre passing skills come to light and the Bombers are likely going down soon after. Can't fix Zach's arm but adding more run diversity to the attack wouldn't hurt, using MCI vertically and mix in Demski, White or Cobb in sweeps.

 

[blue_gold_84]

lol, tech is talking about fantasy and trying to translate it to the field.

Just a comically bad take. He's been one of the best players in the entire league for a good while now.

The mental gymnastics it takes to downplay a homegrown tailback amassing four consecutive 1000-yard seasons (totaling over 5000 yards), two MOC awards, a MOP award, and numerous other accolades, and then label him as mediocre, because he "didn't really help" in two games...

[bunker]

When teams stuff the box to take away the runs up the middle, they are sacrificing leverage in other areas. Linebackers will react more to play action, making it harder to get into their drops. Wide receiver screens may have a bit more time to develop before the help arrives from the middle. Obviously Condell is aware of this, and is making adjustments between games and at halftime to try and take advantage of what the defense is giving us. It may explain part of the reason we had so much success passing against Ticats. Agree that using sweeps can help with this.

One concern I have is that part of Brady's problem was not just the Hamilton scheme, but the fact that they won the line of scrimmage. They won too many one on one battles. Also for some reason there was a tendency for players (I noticed this with Wallace, who's a veteran by now) going up to the second level without actually blocking anyone at the line, leading to Brady being met right at the line of scrimmage by one or more unblocked Ticats. Our O-line clearly needs to be better as well. I've never been a big fan of the "O-line needs time to gel" theory, but hoping their is something to this. Maybe still learning Condell's offense?