DAZN subscription

[Sir Blue and Gold]

You always use the infallibility argument. 'They' must know what they are doing, so anyone who doesn't agree is wrong. Then the ad hominem attack.


I go to 1 game a year. I won't buy a second service to watch 20% of the games. I'll get used to missing those games, which isn't the same as "I won't miss it at all." None of that has anything to do with the validity of my argument.

 Folks who make the decisions love to tell us how great they are going to be, but almost never show the actual numbers after the fact. Makes the look more infallible than they really are, so I doubt we ever get the actual data on how many net new DAZN subscriptions sell, unless they have a CFL-only package and the numbers are good for their side.

I just think they know what they're doing more than you.

I don't think anyone who is truly honest would come to any other conclusion.

[TBURGESS]

I just think they know what they're doing more than you.

I don't think anyone who is truly honest would come to any other conclusion.

If business people were actually infallible, no businesses would ever fail. As that's obviously not true, the only viable conclusion is that business people are not infallible. 

Having more information than me doesn't make them right or guarantee that they make the right decisions. Businesses are "making max profit now and ignoring future enterprises." Always have been. Always will be.  

Do you think this group of owners cares if the CFL folds in 5 years as long as they can maximize their profit for those 5 years? Do you think that could affect their decision-making? 

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

If business people were actually infallible, no businesses would ever fail. As that's obviously not true, the only viable conclusion is that business people are not infallible.

Having more information than me doesn't make them right or guarantee that they make the right decisions. Businesses are "making max profit now and ignoring future enterprises." Always have been. Always will be. 

Do you think this group of owners cares if the CFL folds in 5 years as long as they can maximize their profit for those 5 years? Do you think that could affect their decision-making?

That's the thing, they don't really care about the product creating the wealth or the interests of those who provide the wealth, their focus is 100% on how much wealth can be generated.  Movies, music, entertainment in general, all suck now because accountants ceased control and they sucked the living soul out of the beast. 50 years ago we had Elvis and the Beatles, now we have bubbles.

[bomb squad]

Ya, this poll is a real eye-opener.  In one day we have the bulk of regular members voting and the result is 25% will pay?

I don't know about you, but that's waaaaay less than I would have guessed.  My guess would have been 50/50 of uberfans.

If only 25% of uberfans will pay, kiss the casual fan goodbye.  You're right, at best probably 5% of those will pay.

Ouch!  I'm gonna head over to Riderfans to see what they are saying... strangely enough whether blue or green us uberfans tend to be on the same page when it comes to Dumb CFL Moves.

Do you really think this a Dumb CFL Move?

[tlf]

Watched CFL for over 45 years.  I'd pay $50 a month to keep the 55 yard line and all the games on cable. other than that, no.  I don't subscribe to streaming services, Shaw gets enough $ out of me for cable and internet.  Nope not happening to watch a Edmonton Ottawa yawner or anything Chad Kelly is in.

[dd]

Watched CFL for over 45 years.  I'd pay $50 a month to keep the 55 yard line and all the games on cable. other than that, no.  I don't subscribe to streaming services, Shaw gets enough $ out of me for cable and internet.  Nope not happening to watch a Edmonton Ottawa yawner or anything Chad Kelly is in.

my sentiment exactly!!

[The Zipp]

One rider fan made a great point... Does this mean non Canadian fans can get every game cheaper than us? We have to pay for TSN cable plus dazn. But foreigners can get the whole season with one CFL steam subscription??

If that's correct, that's some messed up poop. Basically punishing us for being so loyal and Canadian.

and us canadians can get all the nfl games and red zone on DAZN and americans need to subscribe to multiple streaming services to get what we have. 

[Sir Blue and Gold]

It's because Canadians will pay for it since they're already fans (collectively, speaking about the market overall, not the 12 of you here) and the play globally would be to make it as easy and accessible as possible because customer acquisition will be far more expensive and harder globally.

Wouldn't surprise me to see the NFL carve up Canada over time.

[Tecno]

Do you really think this a Dumb CFL Move?

I think it's all way too much way too fast. We don't even have time to digest the previous Johnston nutiness. A lot of people are getting Johnston fatigue.

This particular move has pros and cons. League and players love it because they all get raises, and the owners make bank.

But there's not a single fan who loves the idea of paying more or missing out on Saturday games. We might accept it as a tradeoff for league health, but no one likes it for the effects on fans.

Speaking only about the Canadian audience, this will shrink viewership numbers for those games. Probably by half or more. It will gain no new fans. The dude without TSN, but with dazn, is not going to watch 1 game a week and suddenly become a fan.

This is simply a money grab to further monetize the existing fan because they've decided there is no other way.

Put it this way, what if a couple of years later they then say Sunday games will be on Hulu. And Friday on crave. At what point do we decide we won't be leeched off of? I get the money aspect, but it really shows a lack of respect for the fans who've supported the CFL this entire time. And I've read posts on other forums from poorer people who would love to pay but simply can't. Not very liberal to say "no CFL for you"!

[Sir Blue and Gold]

On the other hand, imagine what the Bombers will be able to do with extra revenue. Some of it will be saved. Some to player salaries. Some of it will go to community initiatives, game day initiatives, stadium improvements and more. That's inherently good for the game of football in Manitoba.

[Tecno]

On the other hand, imagine what the Bombers will be able to do with extra revenue. Some of it will be saved. Some to player salaries. Some of it will go to community initiatives, game day initiatives, stadium improvements and more. That's inherently good for the game of football in Manitoba.

Think of the children! (TM)

All well and good.  But there were 2 aspects to most of our desires for league health: 1) becoming financially sound, and 2) getting more fans to be seat-butts and watch TV.

Johnston solved (1), but I posit that this harms goal (2).  Most of us were instead trying to solve (2) in order to organically bring about (1).

I'd also argue that (2) is integral to (1) being sustainable.  If instead of growing butts/eyeballs by 10% you shrink it by 10%, how are you going to negotiate such a sweet media deal next time around?

[bomb squad]

I think it's all way too much way too fast. We don't even have time to digest the previous Johnston nutiness. A lot of people are getting Johnston fatigue.

This particular move has pros and cons. League and players love it because they all get raises, and the owners make bank.

But there's not a single fan who loves the idea of paying more or missing out on Saturday games. We might accept it as a tradeoff for league health, but no one likes it for the effects on fans.

Speaking only about the Canadian audience, this will shrink viewership numbers for those games. Probably by half or more. It will gain no new fans. The dude without TSN, but with dazn, is not going to watch 1 game a week and suddenly become a fan.

This is simply a money grab to further monetize the existing fan because they've decided there is no other way.

Put it this way, what if a couple of years later they then say Sunday games will be on Hulu. And Friday on crave. At what point do we decide we won't be leeched off of? I get the money aspect, but it really shows a lack of respect for the fans who've supported the CFL this entire time. And I've read posts on other forums from poorer people who would love to pay but simply can't. Not very liberal to say "no CFL for you"!

You chose to essentially call it a "Dumb CFL Move". Do you stand by that or not?

[Tecno]

You chose to essentially call it a "Dumb CFL Move". Do you stand by that or not?

Sure.  Especially in my original context: the sum total of all the recent Dumb CFL Moves since Johnston came in.  As others have said, if we weren't in Johnston Fatigue mode already, we'd probably be happier with this media deal.

Why is it dumb?  Because I think it has long term costs and does zero to get more CFL fans in Canada -- ones that can fill the stands, and buy the advertiser's products.  It's been established Johnston's field spec rule changes will lose around 5% of long time fans.  From all I've read on various forums, I'd say this media move will lose another 5% of fans.

That's 10% of good fans lost right off the bat.  No one has explained how no 55YL will add fans to replace these.  And clearly making it harder/pricier to watch games on TV will not add any Canadian fans at all.

So we did absolutely nothing to address the organic side of a healthier leage: get more people out to games and hooked on TV.

Yes, this is a short-term win that has the CFL sitting pretty for 6 years.  It means a big payout to everyone, probably including perks for Johnston.  But what about after that?  Hollow out your base and it'll be a much harder sell.  What happens when DAZN disappears because their short term needs were satisified and no one steps in?  Back to $50M a year from TSN.  Think the CFLPA will accept a commensurate $1M drop in SMS at that time because the money dried up?  No one is asking the "ya, and then what?".

[Tecno]

And I checked.  DAZN was recently trying to IPO but had to delay because wallstreet is worried about the profit (there is none) and revenue growth.  Exactly as I predicted in one of my first posts in the other thread.

DAZN doesn't care about the CFL.  They don't even want it.  This is merely a business move to buy revenue growth and increase the all-important subscriber count.

Once they get their IPO they are all billionaires (including the head honcho who will become more of a billionaire) and they can drop the CFL like a hot potato.  Especially when they inevitably morph into "be more profitable" mode.

If someone can give me a rough count of the number of CFL fans in Canada -- those in seats or watching at home -- I can run the numbers and probably illustrate how DAZN will gain no profit from this.  It's all about the IPO.  I knew it was shady their name is perfect stock ticker length!!

It's kind of funny.  They are using the CFL.  The CFL is using them.  It's like a match made in he-double-hockeysticks.

[Tecno]

Riderfans who are older than me shared this tidbit:

"This reminds me of the second Carling O'Keefe deal in the 80's, which was a record deal for the CFL at the time.
[...]
My concern is what happens if DAZN doesn't get the numbers they expect and don't renew, or reduce the deal significantly?
[...]
Teams took quite a hit after the O'Keefe deal expired.  CTV had backed out of the games, so they had to come up with the Canadian Football Network.  TSN was a youngling in 1986 and I believe they started broadcasting CFL games in 1987."

-- Saskfan in Winnipeg, via Riderfans

(no, the guy is not me!)