major announcement - big changes to cfl playoff and season start

[jets4life]

I'm 69, and I've been watching the CFL since I was 10, and this is the first time since I started that I'm actually wondering if there is any point in continuing. I feel like I'm watching the death of the CFL play out in slow motion.

The new rules suck. The new field sizes suck. The new playoff format SUCKS. The only point of the 18 game season is to remove 1 team? ***? We already have the same 9 teams playing each other up to 4 times a year. Now it could be up to 6 times, including playoffs, & the only time it will really matter is the Grey Cup.

I feel the exact same way. When I was a small child, my Grandparents bought me a third ticket at the 50 years line (West Side). They had tickets going back to Osborne Stadium, and were there in 53' when the new stadium opened. Before leaving to Alberta for over a decade I had season tickets for 20 years. I remember everything.

- Brockbusters
-84 Grey Cup
-Sean Salisbury
-Mike Riley leading us to 2 Grey Cups
-Tom Clements, Matt Dunigan, and Khari Jones
-Troy Westwood and the origins of the banjo bowl
-surviving the Rheinbold years
-Milt Stegal and the "catch"
-the record 18 game home winning streak 83-85


I love the Bombers, but the CFL executive directors are destroying our game. They need to be stopped NOW.
-

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Do you actually remember "everything"?

The CFL in the 1950s:

Touchdowns were worth five points

Helmets were brand new inventions becoming mandatory only at the start of the decade

It wasn't even called the Canadian football league.

There's a ton more, shall I go on?

The truth? You can dislike the rules all you want but don't give me this BS argument that everything has stayed the same until now. The 50s and 60s were hugely transformational for football. Changes have been consistent and constant over time. Such is life.
 

[jets4life]

The truth? You can dislike the rules all you want but don't give me this BS argument that everything has stayed the same until now. The 50s and 60s were hugely transformational for football. Changes have been consistent and constant over time. Such is life.

How far are you going to go back in time.  Why not tell us how Grey Cup games were played during World War 1 while You are at it. The CFL has made no major changes since the early 70s.

I've heard this spiel from you for several months. You just do not get it.  The Bombers do not have a monopoly on entertainment in the city. The fact that only a small minority are in favor of the news changes should tell you something about the way the public feels about this.

You seem to have the attitude that "hey the CFL can do what they want. We are going to accept it unconditionally. Deal with it."

That is an incredibly unwise strategy. You do realize that there is a good chance that people will hate the new changes so much that they will be of the opinion "why should we shell out hundreds of dollars per game to see this product that is vastly inferior to what the CFL was for the past 50 years?'

People will begin to vote with their wallets. There are plenty of other entertainment options in the city.  The Goldeyes.  The Sea Bears.  The Moose. Concerts.  The Concert Hall.  The RWB. Etc.

Even the Jets are finding out that there is a limit as to how loyal people are, when it comes to buying tickets to  see the team.  True North has been notoriously bad dealing with season tickets holders. I can tell you first hand that other cities are doing a much better job selling the product to their respective cities.

The CFL can do whatever they please, but come 2027, I guarantee some fans will be put off with the CFL giving the middle finger to hardcore fans, and will being to lose them for good.  Judging by fan reaction, this will not end well.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

How far are you going to go back in time.  Why not tell us how Grey Cup games were played during World War 1 while You are at it. The CFL has made no major changes since the early 70s.

I've heard this spiel from you for several months. You just do not get it.  The Bombers do not have a monopoly on entertainment in the city. The fact that only a small minority are in favor of the news changes should tell you something about the way the public feels about this.

You seem to have the attitude that "hey the CFL can do what they want. We are going to accept it unconditionally. Deal with it."

That is an incredibly unwise strategy. You do realize that there is a good chance that people will hate the new changes so much that they will be of the opinion "why should we shell out hundreds of dollars per game to see this product that is vastly inferior to what the CFL was for the past 50 years?'

People will begin to vote with their wallets. There are plenty of other entertainment options in the city.  The Goldeyes.  The Sea Bears.  The Moose. Concerts.  The Concert Hall.  The RWB. Etc.

Even the Jets are finding out that there is a limit as to how loyal people are, when it comes to buying tickets to  see the team.  True North has been notoriously bad dealing with season tickets holders. I can tell you first hand that other cities are doing a much better job selling the product to their respective cities.

The CFL can do whatever they please, but come 2027, I guarantee some fans will be put off with the CFL giving the middle finger to hardcore fans, and will being to lose them for good.  Judging by fan reaction, this will not end well.

Or none of that will happen and the league will continue on like it has for over a hundred years.

The door is that way.

[Tecno]

There must be team owners who believe they need these changes to have any chance of making a profit.
Reversing the decisions would involve more casualties than just Johnston. The league would not survive these casualties.

Hogwash.  The way it's being presented to the public at this moment is this is 99% Johnston.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant.  Should 25% of STH cancel in '27 (ya, won't happen, but just imagine) then they'll oust Johston so fast it'll spin the GPs right back to the 0YL.

He's readymade for it as even if you love the changes you probably suspect he is like a used car salesman.  He's eminently unlikable.  A far cry from everyone's affable Uncle, Unca 'Brosie.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

There must be team owners who believe they need these changes to have any chance of making a profit.
Reversing the decisions would involve more casualties than just Johnston. The league would not survive these casualties.

The enigma is that league revenues and the salary cap have gone up the past 2 seasons, but nobody will explain how that happened or what it means.  Is this CFL gloom just a case of team owners always hoping for higher returns, cause I don't see them increasing spending if their revenue is truly in the red.

[Tecno]

I don't think you really understand the format at all...

I do.  Give my post a 2nd read.

I think you are in the mindset that these are mostly division matchups when they are not.  The only guaranteed divisional matchups are what they call the  'Division Showdown' games, where the 1st place team plays the 2nd place team in their respected divisions.  All other matchups (the "Play Ins", Round 2, and Round 3) are based off of league standings not divisional standings.

I wasn't talking who plays, I was talking where games are played.  Venues.  As I said, 6 of 8 games are hosted in their respective division, regardless of any seeds or play-in results or anything else.  Only 2 games might be played outside their division (the 2 play-in games).  If the E is decent it'll work out to 50/50 most years.  If the E stinks (as is the norm) both playins could be in the W.

As such, the venue for games is still at least 75% "divisional" (up to 100%, and average probably 88%).

It is not random how the playin seeding works and who hosts, you take the left over teams (from both divisions) that did not finish 1 and 2 in their divisions and seed them according to their season records they will be placed as seeds 5-8.

Again, I was referencing the 2 "venue up for grabs" play-in games.  If E/W is pretty even, it will indeed appear very "random" as to who is hosting those games.  There may be 0 or 1 wins difference between #5/#6, #6/#7, #7/#8.  Trying to figure out the seed in these middling teams will be impossible until probably the final week games are done.

If you stop and think about it, the format is actually pretty good.  I honestly like it better than our current format as winning 1 game to advance to the final is kind of lame and could create some cross divisional matchups that we typically wouldn't see.

I like the win-1 to make GC.  It's your reward for being the most consistent winner all year.  It puts mega-emphasis on trying to win up until the end if the standings are close (like WPG/SSK in '24).

If most new playoff sequences end up being #1 & #2 facing each other twice, then it starts to smell like hockey or any other "best X of Y" format.  I hate that.  I love the sudden-death lose & go home aspect to football.  I don't want to watch 7-game series like I'm a MLB fan, and players don't want to (and can't) play that many by that time of year -- it remains to be seen if they can even pull off the extra playoff game per team.  Some teams will be on their 4th game in the Grey Cup vs 2 in the current format!

It also makes for a lot more upsets.  The norm in the CFL is most years the #1 in division go to the cup, as seems rational and fair.  Sometimes the #2 (usually due to injury or an injury-return).  Rarely the #3.  Now the #4 in each division has about as much chance as the #3 used to.

As for cross-divisional matchups -- those are almost always horrible draws for butts in seats.  WPGers want to pay to see vs SSK or vs BC or vs CGY.  Only the uber fans want to see us vs OTT or MTL.  Even in the no-attendance E they like their rivalries.  They want to beat up the "bad guys" from the S.Ontario/W-Quebec area.  MTL fans didn't turn out in droves to see them beat us in the xover last season...

But I respect your opinion that you like it as to each his own.  Doesn't mean it'll help the league or make the fans happier.  And it may create hidden incentives to finagle and/or throw things to get a better setup (like my #3 being preferred to #2 concept).  Or what about purposely throwing the round-1, just make sure you injure the other QB before you're done... beat a 5-8 team next week and then return to clean up the no-QB team.

[Tecno]

The enigma is that league revenues and the salary cap have gone up the past 2 seasons, but nobody will explain how that happened or what it means.  Is this CFL gloom just a case of team owners always hoping for higher returns, cause I don't see them increasing spending if their revenue is truly in the red.

Add in the fact that when you own a business you can pay whoever you want whatever you want.  I run my own business.  If I want to reduce business "profit" (for tax reasons or whatever) I can simply pay myself more at the end of that year.  All private CFL owners can do that too.  They could have $2M profit that year and pay themselves $3M and say "oops, my team is losing money again!".  It's all meaningless.

Or they can pay any staff member / position any extra they want in the same manner, as long as that position isn't part of any cap (coach cap, player cap).  Is the Prez on the coach cap??  No?  Pay your Prez $1M instead of $300k.  Boom, you're now a "we lost money waaaah!" team.

Revenue is a better indicator of team financial health.  Peg that against an average of expenses for the last 5 years or whatever.  That will tell you more.

In this sense, the community owned teams are "better" because they are more transparent having to open the books to the public and answer to their BoG.  I'm not against private ownership, but I'm totally against them screaming "poor"!  You bought a CFL team, what did you expect, suck it up or sell it.  None of these guys are stupid.

[Stats Junkie]

The enigma is that league revenues and the salary cap have gone up the past 2 seasons, but nobody will explain how that happened or what it means.  Is this CFL gloom just a case of team owners always hoping for higher returns, cause I don't see them increasing spending if their revenue is truly in the red.

Revenue growth is a lagging indicator which means that the groundwork was done in previous seasons. I.e. revenue growth is from the Ambrosie era. My guess would be gambling revenue.

Profits are harder to evaluate because only 2 teams open their books (WPG & SSK). The media keeps citing old information that the other 7 teams are losing money.

This offseason we have heard that Montreal is now in a break even position.

In Calgary, if not for a rain game they would have moved from the red to the black. So they are close to even.

I would not be surprised if Hamilton is in the black as well.

[BIGBLUE204]

How far are you going to go back in time.  Why not tell us how Grey Cup games were played during World War 1 while You are at it. The CFL has made no major changes since the early 70s.

I've heard this spiel from you for several months. You just do not get it.  The Bombers do not have a monopoly on entertainment in the city. The fact that only a small minority are in favor of the news changes should tell you something about the way the public feels about this.

You seem to have the attitude that "hey the CFL can do what they want. We are going to accept it unconditionally. Deal with it."

That is an incredibly unwise strategy. You do realize that there is a good chance that people will hate the new changes so much that they will be of the opinion "why should we shell out hundreds of dollars per game to see this product that is vastly inferior to what the CFL was for the past 50 years?'

People will begin to vote with their wallets. There are plenty of other entertainment options in the city.  The Goldeyes.  The Sea Bears.  The Moose. Concerts.  The Concert Hall.  The RWB. Etc.

Even the Jets are finding out that there is a limit as to how loyal people are, when it comes to buying tickets to  see the team.  True North has been notoriously bad dealing with season tickets holders. I can tell you first hand that other cities are doing a much better job selling the product to their respective cities.

The CFL can do whatever they please, but come 2027, I guarantee some fans will be put off with the CFL giving the middle finger to hardcore fans, and will being to lose them for good.  Judging by fan reaction, this will not end well.

People in WPG who go to the bomber games aren't going to stop so they can go to the RWB or art gallery, even Sea bear games. This isn't a one or the other situation like the Jets, where the cost is so high most people can't bring their families. Hundreds of dollars on a Bomber game is a bit of stretch. Maybe if they are there to party, and again..if they are there for that. There are no other options in the city that provide the value and atmosphere of a Bomber game.

And while I'm not a huge fan of the changes to the game, your argument that the league hasn't made any major changes since the 70's kind of works against you. The league isn't in a good spot right now. We've heard time and time again that changes are needed if the league is going to survive. And while I think it's ridiculous that people would rather see it fold, the $$ invested across the country from all levels of government make that highly unlikely to happen. The changes are coming. And I can't fathom so called "hardcore CFL Fans" giving up on the league because of them. That doesn't make sense to me. And with all due respect, a lot of that is coming from people who aren't exactly the leagues target audience right now. There are a lot of grey hairs complaining and being loud. But if you get off SM and the "polls" (which lets be honest are about as useful as wet toilet paper) there are plenty of people who like the changes coming. I know, because I'm constantly telling them that moving the goal posts sucks.

[TBURGESS]

I've said that I don't like this or that rule change along the way, but I've never said that it would stop me from watching every game on TV, something I've done for almost 60 years. 

This round of changes are different. They move the CFL away from what it's always been... A quirky, truly Canadian version of the game towards a more US-palatable version of the game. The timing is staggeringly horrible. The US has declared economic war on us and Canadian nationalism is at an all-time high. 

The stupid playoff structure is kinda the last straw that broke the camel's back. 18 games to eliminate 1 team. 4 'playoff' games in the first round to eliminate the 2 who shouldn't be in the playoffs in the first place. The top 4 teams move on, win or lose. Playing the same team 1 extra time. 

For those who say that I'm just complaining and not offering any solutions, here are the rule changes that I'd like to have seen... None. They don't make the game better.  Here is the playoff structure I'd like to have seen. No divisions; top 6 teams make the playoffs etc. 

[BIGBLUE204]

I've said that I don't like this or that rule change along the way, but I've never said that it would stop me from watching every game on TV, something I've done for almost 60 years.

This round of changes are different. They move the CFL away from what it's always been... A quirky, truly Canadian version of the game towards a more US-palatable version of the game. The timing is staggeringly horrible. The US has declared economic war on us and Canadian nationalism is at an all-time high.

The stupid playoff structure is kinda the last straw that broke the camel's back. 18 games to eliminate 1 team. 4 'playoff' games in the first round to eliminate the 2 who shouldn't be in the playoffs in the first place. The top 4 teams move on, win or lose. Playing the same team 1 extra time.

For those who say that I'm just complaining and not offering any solutions, here are the rule changes that I'd like to have seen... None. They don't make the game better.  Here is the playoff structure I'd like to have seen. No divisions; top 6 teams make the playoffs etc.

You don't have to like it, but you're not the target audience these changes are meant to appeal to.

And I'm not going to lie, this made me laugh - For those who say that I'm just complaining and not offering any solutions, here are the rule changes that I'd like to have seen... None.

[TBURGESS]

You don't have to like it, but you're not the target audience these changes are meant to appeal to.

And I'm not going to lie, this made me laugh - For those who say that I'm just complaining and not offering any solutions, here are the rule changes that I'd like to have seen... None.

Who is the target audience if not the fans of the CFL & how do the rule changes bring in non-fans? 

What's funny, to me, is thinking that any rule changes are going to magically help the situation. If you think that these rule changes help, please expand on how. 

There are a few rules I'd like to change, knowing that they won't help put fans in the stands. 

1. Only 2 types of players: Canadians and imports, and it doesn't matter what position you play. All these different designations are dumb. 
2. X number of Canadians get a guaranteed starting spot, with X being less than today. Better players make better games. If the CFL ever expands to the US again, the ratio won't apply for the US teams anyway. 
3. Go to a single division. We don't need the antiquated East Vs West format. 

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Who is the target audience if not the fans of the CFL & how do the rule changes bring in non-fans?

What's funny, to me, is thinking that any rule changes are going to magically help the situation. If you think that these rule changes help, please expand on how.

There are a few rules I'd like to change, knowing that they won't help put fans in the stands.

1. Only 2 types of players: Canadians and imports, and it doesn't matter what position you play. All these different designations are dumb.
2. X number of Canadians get a guaranteed starting spot, with X being less than today. Better players make better games. If the CFL ever expands to the US again, the ratio won't apply for the US teams anyway.
3. Go to a single division. We don't need the antiquated East Vs West format.

Obviously many, but not all, rule changes are intended to improve the on field product.

You simultaneously say you don't believe that they can do so, and then you go on to suggest rule changes anyway.

It makes no sense. It never makes any sense.

All companies, generally speaking, review and upgrade their products and services on a regular cadence. Yes, sports leagues too. Some of them have very recently changed the exact thing the CFL just did: playoff format.

You folks move the goalposts more aggressively than the CFL ever could.

[theaardvark]

Well, if making people talk is one of the goals, its working to a tee.

Playoff structure is better, top teams can get 2 home playoff games, and if you think the regular season doesn't matter, right there is your payoff.

The fact that the 2nd and 3r worst teams in the league could actually meet in the GC is kinda screwy, but that's not going to happen.

Win your division, and you get the best road to the cup, and a second chance if you have a bad first game.

2nd in the division, you still get at least one home game.

8 out of 9 players are going to get some playoff money.

It's kinda weird, but no doubt they put a lot of thought into it, and I think its going to be fun.  Kinda like they looked at curling and took some pointers.