New rules / commissioner's statements

[bomber beetle]

https://www.biv.com/news/commentary/kirk-lapointe-a-new-stadium-era-is-knocking-on-vancouvers-door-11611675

One perspective on the Lions' situation.

[Tecno]

One perspective on the Lions' situation.

Who owns BC Place?  Why on earth would they want to give up Lions a reliable and constant revenue source?  There is literally no reason for the CFL to move out of BC Place.

I think your soccer takes are off base.  No one is adapting the CFL to fit soccer.  If anything it's the other way around.  I bet every soccer league in Canada combined doesn't bring in as much revenue as the CFL.  Heck, probably not as much as just the WFC+Riders.

If Johnston is making moves & plans around soccer, then he's even more lost than I originally thought.

[Tecno]

Beyond what happens in 2026-2027: There will never be a new stadium built that fits the current CFL field in any of these three cities.
If there is no future, there will be no league. The field size must change.

This doesn't even make any sense.  There will be new stadiums built in cities that need them (like CGY and maybe MTL? -- BC is not one of them), though it may take 1 to 2 decades for the teams & cities to get off their duffs.

Making a statement about a city "never" getting a new stadium, even 15 years out, is ridiculous.  A lot can happen in that time frame.

An extra 10Y on the field literally has nothing to do with any of the above.

[bomber beetle]

BC Place is owned by the Province.
The last report I saw indicates that it loses about 10 million each year in operating costs.
I don't want to speculate on what the land is worth that it sits on. It is huge though.
Will it be worth keeping it open when the only major tenant is the Lions football team?

It would be very difficult to find numbers to compare revenue between teams. Value is much easier: the latest MLS expansion fee was $500 million. Three teams in Canada = 1.5 billion plus whatever else is considered an asset.

There have been rumblings in Edmonton about an MLS team.
Long term, I just can't see two new stadiums.
Commonwealth is not a long term solution for the Elks.

MLSE may have forced the league's hand on this.
It is easy to see how much easier and economically favourable it will be to fit the new CFL field into their soccer stadium.
This is pure speculation, still it makes sense.

The CFL field is being reduced by 20 yards, not 10.
That makes sharing a stadium viable...so why not do it?
Current CFL owners probably won't hang in there for decades waiting for new stadiums with a 150 yard field to magically appear. The league needs some vsion of a viable future now.

[Tecno]

The CFL field is being reduced by 20 yards, not 10.
That makes sharing a stadium viable...so why not do it?
Current CFL owners probably won't hang in there for decades waiting for new stadiums with a 150 yard field to magically appear. The league needs some vsion of a viable future now.

If this has anything at all to do with the New Rules, then why not just come out and say it?  On this point there wouldn't be any screams of the dreaded "Americanization", so why not just tell the truth then?

That's half the problem with the changes: we all suspect there are ulterior motives and yet we're told nothing.  If we assume benign/beneficial motives (like fitting in soccer stadiums) then why not just come out and admit it?  Wouldn't people be more understanding?  Heck, I would.

The fact they don't is the hint that either the hidden motives are in fact not benign, or there's really no thought process going on behind the scenes at all!

[bomb squad]

If this has anything at all to do with the New Rules, then why not just come out and say it?  On this point there wouldn't be any screams of the dreaded "Americanization", so why not just tell the truth then?

That's half the problem with the changes: we all suspect there are ulterior motives and yet we're told nothing.  If we assume benign/beneficial motives (like fitting in soccer stadiums) then why not just come out and admit it?  Wouldn't people be more understanding?  Heck, I would.

The fact they don't is the hint that either the hidden motives are in fact not benign, or there's really no thought process going on behind the scenes at all!

My speculation is that there are people who have been told what those "additional benefits" are. Even if they're only possibilities. Otherwise, they may not have bought the idea, I don't think. They are not talking either. I think it's because they are only possibilities and therefore risky to say publicly.

[bomber beetle]

If this has anything at all to do with the New Rules, then why not just come out and say it?  On this point there wouldn't be any screams of the dreaded "Americanization", so why not just tell the truth then?

That's half the problem with the changes: we all suspect there are ulterior motives and yet we're told nothing.  If we assume benign/beneficial motives (like fitting in soccer stadiums) then why not just come out and admit it?  Wouldn't people be more understanding?  Heck, I would.

The fact they don't is the hint that either the hidden motives are in fact not benign, or there's really no thought process going on behind the scenes at all!

The CFL stated that this was a move to harmonize the field. Sounds nice.
Beyond that, it is up to us as fans to interpret the motives.
In the context of my theory, the truth does not sound so inspiring: We need to fit on smaller fields because we will probably not get a new CFL field anytime soon, if ever.  Not exactly a positive marketing message.

I also believe that if fans in Canada do not start supporting the league in the next 5 years or so, there will probably be American expansion. Given the current circumstances, it is smart of the owners to prepare for that scenario. I don't think it is what they want to do, but they know they might need to. This is probably the ulterior motive that comes to mind for most of us. As much as I hate it...I get it.

It is interesting, this is what Peladeau said 15 months before the rule changes were announced:
"We'll find out what we can do. It's gonna be a tough possibility to consider building a stadium only for a football team," Péladeau said. "I think at the end of the day, we need to consider how can we do things that will put professional teams together in Montreal to represent this city and this province as good as possible."
This message seems benign...but the reality is that the CFL field and soccer fields are not compatible so where does the priority go? At this time, in the big centers, it goes to Soccer.

The timing of Peladeau's statement, leads me to believe that this process started well before Johnson became the new commissioner. MLSE, Doman and perhaps others were probably on this train as well,....but we will never really know.

[Tecno]

USA expansion with the ratio is impossible, and anyone thinking that's the future should be b slapped.  I watched the X-era games TSN re-ran a few years back and the whole situation was a joke.  Didn't the GC go to the "ratio free" teams all but one of the years?  You want to lose all your Canadian CFL fans, that's how you do it.

And as for "we must fit in a soccer stadium if we are to ever see a new CFL stadium again", since CFL is the bigger field, why is this even a thing?  You can build for current CFL size and plunk a soccer field inside with a re-paint.  WFC has been doing this for years... Are you saying there's really some soccer team/fans out there that insists any new stadium can't have that extra few yards to fit a current CFL field?

The only way your soccer theory makes sense is if you're talking only EXISTING soccer stadiums.  Outside of a couple of smaller cities, I don't see a ton of great soccer stadiums just waiting for the CFL to use them...

Plus, you still haven't addressed how all the revenue/money currently sits in the CFL, not in any major/minor league soccer in Canada.  Maybe soccer is growing, or maybe it's big in the 2 big metro areas, but that doesn't make it bigger than the CFL currently is.  Why would the CFL care what these "small fry" teams/venues are doing?

Your love of soccer is clouding your judgement a bit.  I don't know a single person in Canada who gives a rat's butt about soccer.  Most don't give a rat's butt about the CFL either, but at least I know 10 or so who watch the Bombers on TV.  I feel fairly confident in saying I doubt the commish & BOG are planning everything around soccer.

[bomber beetle]

USA expansion with the ratio is impossible, and anyone thinking that's the future should be b slapped.  I watched the X-era games TSN re-ran a few years back and the whole situation was a joke.  Didn't the GC go to the "ratio free" teams all but one of the years?  You want to lose all your Canadian CFL fans, that's how you do it.

And as for "we must fit in a soccer stadium if we are to ever see a new CFL stadium again", since CFL is the bigger field, why is this even a thing?  You can build for current CFL size and plunk a soccer field inside with a re-paint.  WFC has been doing this for years... Are you saying there's really some soccer team/fans out there that insists any new stadium can't have that extra few yards to fit a current CFL field?

The only way your soccer theory makes sense is if you're talking only EXISTING soccer stadiums.  Outside of a couple of smaller cities, I don't see a ton of great soccer stadiums just waiting for the CFL to use them...

Plus, you still haven't addressed how all the revenue/money currently sits in the CFL, not in any major/minor league soccer in Canada.  Maybe soccer is growing, or maybe it's big in the 2 big metro areas, but that doesn't make it bigger than the CFL currently is.  Why would the CFL care what these "small fry" teams/venues are doing?

Your love of soccer is clouding your judgement a bit.  I don't know a single person in Canada who gives a rat's butt about soccer.  Most don't give a rat's butt about the CFL either, but at least I know 10 or so who watch the Bombers on TV.  I feel fairly confident in saying I doubt the commish & BOG are planning everything around soccer.

If expansion happens, I absolutely believe it will not be anything like the first attempt.

Every soccer team and it's fans demand prime end zone seats, right near the goal line.

If there will be a new stadium in Vancouver,  it will be built by the whitecaps. The lions will not be invited to the table if the field they play on is more than 130 yards long.

The whitecaps drew over 50000 for their last game.  The Lions drew half of that. Average ticket price was much higher for the whitecaps game. That is one reason why the whitecaps could swing a new stadium and the lions might be a minority partner.

I love the cfl. I can enjoy a soccer game once in awhile but it is not my go to.

[ModAdmin]

If expansion happens it will not be anything like the first attempt.

Every soccer team and it's fans wants prime end zone seats, right near the goal line.

The whitecaps drew over 50000 for their last game.  The Lions drew half of that. Average ticket price was much higher for the whitecaps game.

I love the cfl. I can enjoy a soccer game once in awhile but it is not my go to.

I maintain the CFL is the only professional sport - or maybe any sport - that brings Canadians together, regardless of which team you are pulling for.  Just be at a Grey Cup game to witness how fans and observers come together in a way no other sport does. It really is unique.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

If expansion happens, I absolutely believe it will not be anything like the first attempt.

Every soccer team and it's fans demand prime end zone seats, right near the goal line.

If there will be a new stadium in Vancouver,  it will be built by the whitecaps. The lions will not be invited to the table if the field they play on is more than 130 yards long.

The whitecaps drew over 50000 for their last game.  The Lions drew half of that. Average ticket price was much higher for the whitecaps game. That is one reason why the whitecaps could swing a new stadium and the lions might be a minority partner.

I love the cfl. I can enjoy a soccer game once in awhile but it is not my go to.

You literally cherry picked one game attendance in the MLS semi-finals to make your point, Whitecaps average attendance was sometimes above 20,000 more times below, while the Lions average game attendance was published at 27,124.

Soccer is lauded as "the game of the future" in Canada, here's the AI overview.

Soccer is widely considered the "game of the future" in Canada because it is the country's most popular participatory sport, especially among youth, and is experiencing significant growth fueled by the upcoming 2026 FIFA World Cup and the success of its national teams and professional leagues.
Key Drivers of Soccer's Rise in Canada

Highest Participation Rates: Soccer has more registered players than any other sport in the country, including ice hockey. Studies consistently show it is the most popular team sport for Canadian children and youth.

Accessibility and Diversity: Soccer's appeal stems from its accessibility and low equipment costs, making it a popular choice for immigrant families and lower-income communities, which contributes to a diverse and growing player base across the nation.

All of the above is true but here is my experience, I spent over a decade on the sidelines watching my kids play soccer, often travelling every Sunday in the spring to play league games in nearby communities as did every other parent. 

In all that time I never became more than a casual soccer fan and neither did most of the other parents, of course we attended the games and cheered on our team and had fun doing so but that's as far as it went, no passion spawned. Coach tried to organize international soccer viewing parties with little enthusiasm and poor results from both parents and kids. Turns out most of the kids didn't become big soccer fans either, as the participation drop off started around age 14 and worsened every year due to other priorities and interests.  They simply ate up the experience because we plopped it on their plate, just as they would any other fun experience.

Soccer is a great game, but to say it's Canada's future #1 sport is misleading, as participation is largely driven by it's affordability, easy access and relentless soccer moms who are more focused on the presentation of the snacks than the score of the game.

[bomber beetle]

You literally cherry picked one game attendance in the MLS semi-finals to make your point, Whitecaps average attendance was sometimes above 20,000 more times below, while the Lions average game attendance was published at 27,124.

True.
My point is more about revenue potential.
It does not look like the Lions will ever see a crowd of that size, with that level of ticket pricing, anytime soon.

MLS teams in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver report revenue of $70M, $45M and $40M in $US. All three teams lost money.
The Blue Bombers reports nearly $55M CDN in revenue in 2024. The Bombers made money.

Value is another story. At a minimum, an MLS team is worth $0.5B if it was sold and relocated.
Numerous teams in the league are worth over $1.0B and making money.
Within this financial environment, there is a path to a new soccer specific stadium in Vancouver that will be financed by the Whitecaps and partners.

For the CFL to survive and thrive, it will need franchises in the three largest cities.
The money for any future stadiums or stadium renovations in those cities will come from soccer.

[blue_or_die]

bomber beetle has just overtaken the title as the forum's official tin foil hatter. Congratulations and sorry Tecno.