O'Shea Granted Permission to Interview with Argos

[Jesse]

Here's what I think is happening:

One gets the sense that there is a bit of tension between O'Shea, Walters and Miller.

My reading of the tea leaves is that O'Shea wanted to stretch this core against the judgement of Walters and probably Miller, the former who brought in a bunch of young QBs and probably advocated for a complete overhaul, earlier. That approach was rejected by O'Shea  and the pieces that were aligned to that vision were cut pretty quickly and/or sent to the PR pretty early on in June.

Now we're dealing with egos, a bit of a rift between the three of them and teams courting O'Shea offering more player personnel control, which ya, is the exact message you'd deliver if the above is true and you are thinking strategically.

I'd put some good money on this and it actually aligns with a few things I've heard around. Grain of salt. But I'd stand behind it as the most probable scenario.

So you're saying that O'Shea has the roster control to keep the team he wants and is leaving to gain that same roster control.

FWIW, Jeff Hamilton has consistently reported that MOS has all the control over the roster that he wants. He may leave, but from everything we know about the Bombers organization and from what I read, that won't be one of the reasons why.

[dd]

Ya, sorry, but for me, Kawartha Lakes has got this beat by miles,

[Tecno]

He's never stopped being an Argo and I'll soon be hating him as much as I hate anything Argo. If he goes, good riddance. Thanks for the memories and the opportunity to have new memories beating us some Argo butt!

Yikes, give the man a break and wait until (IF!) he makes the move!  Everyone is just speculating off of very little hard info.  It's all a bit silly.  You don't want to be there with your foot in your mouth when it's announced MOS has signed for 3 more years in WPG!

[Tecno]

Football people are eternal optimists. Somehow Montreal and Ottawa got turned around and likely MOS and Pinball are believers in the same for Toronto.

Ambiguous.  Are we talking "team turned around" or "fan situation turned around".  Former is already done, bad year without a QB notwithstanding.  The latter is the situation that may never be solved.  If 2 cups in 3 years don't pack the (miniscule!) stands, nothing will.

[Tecno]

we all may be shocked that MOS may actually want more of a gm type role that what is believed. head coach/assistant gm??

pinball may want to have a succession plan in place and i don't think it's john murphy so why not MOS?

Ya, but doesn't MOS have all of that here right now?  Some say in FA hirings and cutting/firings.

And wouldn't we have to think that MOS is the "succession plan" for KW, should MOS be interested in that eventually?

My main point being: he doesn't have to move to TOR to get those things.  If he wants them, they are all right here.  And if he doesn't want those things, then they can't be used to argue they are the "main draw" for MOS in TOR!

[Jesse]

Ya, but doesn't MOS have all of that here right now?  Some say in FA hirings and cutting/firings.

And wouldn't we have to think that MOS is the "succession plan" for KW, should MOS be interested in that eventually?

My main point being: he doesn't have to move to TOR to get those things.  If he wants them, they are all right here.  And if he doesn't want those things, then they can't be used to argue they are the "main draw" for MOS in TOR!

Another thing that Jeff Hamilton reported was that, if Wade Miller wants to keep MOS around, he won't be "outbid". If there's more we need to do/give O'Shea, it's going to be available.

And it's the little things that Winnipeg does that Toronto absolutely will not. We provide dinner for all players and their families after every game, for example. The club invests money back into the organization which is not something MLSE is going to sign off on.

Nothing about the Argos meshes with what we know about MOS. Now maybe he would see it as a challenge to create that there, but he simply won't have the ability to control any other organization the way he has impacted the Bombers. Wade vs a private owner simply don't have the same priorities.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

So you're saying that O'Shea has the roster control to keep the team he wants and is leaving to gain that same roster control.

FWIW, Jeff Hamilton has consistently reported that MOS has all the control over the roster that he wants. He may leave, but from everything we know about the Bombers organization and from what I read, that won't be one of the reasons why.

That's a poor reading of what I said. The situation is nuanced, not black bad white. You have three guys who all feel they should have some influence and all three have earned it.

You also have a situation where it seems reasonable to conclude that coach and GM weren't entirely on the same page this year.

I am not sure what the heck Jeff Hamilton has to do with anything? No one is going to sit down with him from the Bombers and explain to him the power dynamic between the three of them. 

Reality? O'Shea obviously has a lot of control (thanks captain Hamilton for his contribution.) Most likely exclusive control of game day and training camp, etc but probably not overt control over long term direction. Walters has some too. Miller also. When the long term version is fragmented, people use their influence to pull in their own directions. This is not unique to football problem either. Plays out in board rooms everywhere.   

Have a different take if you want but I'm going with this one.

[Waffler]

Ambiguous.  Are we talking "team turned around" or "fan situation turned around".  Former is already done, bad year without a QB notwithstanding.  The latter is the situation that may never be solved.  If 2 cups in 3 years don't pack the (miniscule!) stands, nothing will.

I am talking about tickets sold, fan experience. Winning always helps but it has to be fun to attend in person. Ottawa and Montreal have both had the franchise folded, that was my point. Both were considered lost causes as Toronto is now. These are fun places to be now and prove that it is not impossible to turn it around.

[blue_or_die]

Y'all are going to need a crystal ball to figure out what's going on here. I don't think there's too much logic you can apply here - this is going to be an emotional decision and probably based on more factors than we're privy to.

My gut says he's gone but I don't really have good reason for why I think that, either. If I were to guess, it would be for the "new challenge" in a place he "always saw himself returning to one day". It's not hard to fathom that maybe he feels he's done all he can here and it's time for a change of scenery. I wouldn't disagree with that reasoning, either. If he moves on then it might be the best for both parties and would allow us to reset the roster and our overall approach. Hard to argue that's needed after a year like this where some things (and people) were beginning to get stale. It would suck because Osh is a friggin legend and we owe so much to him, but hey, that's the business of sports. Even the best coaches move on and more often than not are fired outright after being heroes just a year or two before.

[ichabod_crane]

Y'all are going to need a crystal ball to figure out what's going on here. I don't think there's too much logic you can apply here - this is going to be an emotional decision and probably based on more factors than we're privy to.

My gut says he's gone but I don't really have good reason for why I think that, either. If I were to guess, it would be for the "new challenge" in a place he "always saw himself returning to one day". It's not hard to fathom that maybe he feels he's done all he can here and it's time for a change of scenery. I wouldn't disagree with that reasoning, either. If he moves on then it might be the best for both parties and would allow us to reset the roster and our overall approach. Hard to argue that's needed after a year like this where some things (and people) were beginning to get stale. It would suck because Osh is a friggin legend and we owe so much to him, but hey, that's the business of sports. Even the best coaches move on and more often than not are fired outright after being heroes just a year or two before.

If he stays or goes it does not change the fact this team requires a rebuild in many areas. Hanging on to the old guard with some tinkering is a guarantee to 5th place in the west next year. 

[tlf]

I say he stays.  When you see MOS applauding the fans for making the other team take a time count violation and how much he loves the noise of the fans here, you won't get that environment in TO.  That's a big plus for him here.

I haven't heard a peep about Walters.  Would a combo GM/Coach options be available to MOS here? Would MOS be negotiating for that possibly?  Until he signs, these are all just conversations and nothing more.

[bwiser]

Is there a worse job available in the CFL than head coach of the Argos? Poor crowd support, poor support by ownership and 13 road games in 2026 equals a big no thanks.

[theaardvark]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, there's lots to like about toronto and area - muskokas, kawartha lakes(MOS is a huge fisherman and hunter), niagara falls, zip across to buffalo to take in a Bills game, no -30 degree winters, can get rid of his block heater, his travel schedule for playing east teams is a driveable for 2 of the 3 teams, etc etc. I've lived in both places and would live in southern ontario in a heartbeat.

I've lived all over Toronto for 2 decades, looking for the perfect spot, and its not there.  I've been here 26 years, and its been the best move ever. You can't go anywhere in Toronto by car without it taking forever, and not having a place to park (downtown) under $20...

Drive up the 400 or 404 and unless its Tuesday afternoon, its stop and go, bumper to bumper.  The first time I went up to Victoria Beach, it was Friday at 6:00, and I hit my brakes a half dozen times, maybe.  And my buddy, who I was visiting, was ******** about the traffic.  I laughed.

So no, location is not better, except for proximity to family.

[theaardvark]

In all the years it has been in effect, I've never seen a set of rules for the "Chris Jones Front Office Salary Cap"

What are the penalties for going over?  Is it the same as the player cap?  Or is purely monetary, with no draft picks risked (would not make sense to involve draft picks, really)

If it is just cash, then we should definitely exceed it and get a real OC for MOS for next year... that might keep him here.

[Jesse]

That's a poor reading of what I said. The situation is nuanced, not black bad white. You have three guys who all feel they should have some influence and all three have earned it.

You also have a situation where it seems reasonable to conclude that coach and GM weren't entirely on the same page this year.

I am not sure what the heck Jeff Hamilton has to do with anything? No one is going to sit down with him from the Bombers and explain to him the power dynamic between the three of them. 

Reality? O'Shea obviously has a lot of control (thanks captain Hamilton for his contribution.) Most likely exclusive control of game day and training camp, etc but probably not overt control over long term direction. Walters has some too. Miller also. When the long term version is fragmented, people use their influence to pull in their own directions. This is not unique to football problem either. Plays out in board rooms everywhere.   

Have a different take if you want but I'm going with this one.

I'm not sure what your slight is on Jeff Hamilton. I source him because he's the president of the football writers of Canada and does a weekly article as well as a podcast on the happenings around the CFL. He's the most plugged in guy that fans have access to. He's specifically covered the Bombers for MOS's whole tenure.

Regardless, while no one know what MOS's motivations are when it comes to what his future choices are, the specific scenario you talked about doesn't make sense to me. Just given the control that MOS has within the Winnipeg organization and the multitude of voices within the Toronto organization. Dinwiddie left for a reason, afterall.

I tend to agree with blue_or_die that if he were to leave, it would probably be more of an emotional decision that because of any degree of control or lack thereof. I feel very confident that there's nothing Toronto could offer in that respect that he doesn't already have.