CFL announces changes to the game - merged topics

[bomber beetle]

In the 2000s, the Montreal Alouettes made money, playing in a stadium with a capacity of 20,200 seats, so the analogy that every team loses approximately $3.5 million, if they average under 23,000, would be incorrect.

I recall this exact conversation in the media back in the early 1990s. "We need to make radical changes to the league, or it will fold!"  So the CFL, in its infinite wisdom, decided to place several expansion franchises in the United States. How did that go?

Perhaps the Alouettes made money during that time. Yes, you are correct that it would not necessarily mean a hit of $3.5 million. Overall though, it was a financial bloodbath:
https://3downnation.com/2019/05/28/alouettes-lost-over-12-million-in-2018-report/
The Bombers took a pretty big hit after Wettenhall left and the league ran the team while looking for new owners.

Another tidbit of info: when Ambrosie tried to get a government handout during Covid he stated that the CFL regularly loses between 15 and 20 million each year. Subtract the number teams that were making money and the numbers get scary for those that were not.

It can be argued that expansion saved the league back in the 90's. It failed in practice, but expansion fees allowed the Canadian teams to survive at a time that things were very desperate...I would say far more desperate than things stand right now.

Moving forward, the league needs more revenue and that will be hard to achieve when the number of followers is slowly declining. When the commish says the model is unsustainable it is absolutely true. Teams need to make enough money in good years to cover the losses in the lean years...that is just not happening.

 

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Perhaps the Alouettes made money during that time. Yes, you are correct that it would not necessarily mean a hit of $3.5 million. Overall though, it was a financial bloodbath:
https://3downnation.com/2019/05/28/alouettes-lost-over-12-million-in-2018-report/
The Bombers took a pretty big hit after Wettenhall left and the league ran the team while looking for new owners.

Another tidbit of info: when Ambrosie tried to get a government handout during Covid he stated that the CFL regularly loses between 15 and 20 million each year. Subtract the number teams that were making money and the numbers get scary for those that were not.

It can be argued that expansion saved the league back in the 90's. It failed in practice, but expansion fees allowed the Canadian teams to survive at a time that things were very desperate...I would say far more desperate than things stand right now.

Moving forward, the league needs more revenue and that will be hard to achieve when the number of followers is slowly declining. When the commish says the model is unsustainable it is absolutely true. Teams need to make enough money in good years to cover the losses in the lean years...that is just not happening.

Around the same period the NFL loaned the CFL money to help it survive.

From Wiki.

"In 1997, the NFL provided a US$3-million interest-free loan to the financially struggling CFL. In return, the NFL was granted access to CFL players entering a defined two-month window in the option year of their contract. This was later written into the CFL's collective bargaining agreement with its players. The CFL's finances have since stabilized and they eventually repaid the loan. The CFL–NFL agreement expired in 2006. Both leagues attempted to reach a new agreement, but the CFL broke off negotiations in November 2007 after Canadian telecommunications firm Rogers Communications paid $78 million to host seven Bills games in Toronto over five seasons (the last Bills Toronto Series game was played during the 2013 NFL season)."

[jets4life]

Well first of all you need somebody who has the billion or so to build it. Second, Toronto is part of Buffalo's area when it comes to the NFL. They're not likely to put a team there. London on the off hand helps open up a newer market.

1. In Southern Ontario, where 16 million people live, there would absolutely be multiple people that would step up, if the NFL coming to Canada was ever in the picture.

2. Until recently, there were 3 markets with 2 NFL teams (LA, NYC, and the Bay Area). Considering the Bills are in a different country, I doubt it would block a potential team from Toronto joining the NFL

3. There has been talk for decades about putting teams in Europe from multiple leagues (NHL, NBA, NFL). Once again, the logistics are very unfavourable. Hypothetically, say the London team does really well, and goes to the Conference Finals. I doubt that American networks would be pleased to have to air games early in the morning, or on the flip side, have London residents start games at 10 PM for the benefit of American TV.

[jets4life]

I disagree 100%.  It would be an enormous financial risk to anyone to build an NFL stadium at a cost of several billion $$$. I don't see fan interest that would fill that kind of stadium. Franchise fee is something like $2B USD which is another obstacle limiting those wanting an NFL team anywhere.

Football is practically a religion in the USA. That is not the case in Canada.

Look at how well the NBA Raptors and MLB Blue Jays have done attendance-wise, throughout their history. The same arguments were used against putting teams in Canada. Football is massively popular in Canada, and has been since WW2. If Toronto built an NFL ready stadium, it would be sold out every game.

Even hosting games from 2008-13 from a different city (Buffalo Bills), with a horrible team at the time, attendance still averaged near capacity, and that was with tickets going nearly 4 times what one would have paid in Buffalo.  If Toronto had it's own team, it would rival the Leafs in popularity. Additionally, the market has well over 10 million people to draw from, considering most games are on weekends, and people from Southern Ontario already have no issues driving to Buffalo (the Bills average 15,000 Canadians per game).

If we are talking about the cost of bringing a team to Toronto, keep in mind that the value of sports franchises is at an all time high, increasing exponentially in the last 20 years. The return on that investment would be excellent.

[jets4life]

You really can't argue with a straight face that from a pure credibility standpoint, putting everyone on earth on an equal playing field and cheering on the best possible players outside of the NFL would not improve its perception amongst people who regard the CFL as a second class league. The CFL has the opportunity to be seen as the AHL to the NFL and I think they're going to take it. It's as close a comparison as I can come up with help people understand and would benefit the CFL in the long run, even if the NFL eventually puts a team here.

We can argue with a straight face, that this has been tried repeatedly in the past, and never succeeded.

Whether it's the WFL, USFL, WLAF, XFL, UFL, or the CFL American teams.  All have failed.

If it's not the NFL, it will fail in the US.  In Canada, this will do nothing to spark interest in Southern Ontario, and will alienate fans in Western Canada, where traditionally the most successful franchises are located.  It's not going to work.

[jets4life]

It can be argued that expansion saved the league back in the 90's. It failed in practice, but expansion fees allowed the Canadian teams to survive at a time that things were very desperate...I would say far more desperate than things stand right now.

The financial losses incurred by the American teams exceeded the expansion revenue that went to the CFL, so when all is said and done, the CFL was in worse shape in 1996, than it was in 1992.

Moving forward, the league needs more revenue and that will be hard to achieve when the number of followers is slowly declining. When the commish says the model is unsustainable it is absolutely true. Teams need to make enough money in good years to cover the losses in the lean years...that is just not happening.

All I can say is that most fans are open to some changes. Moving the goalposts, and changes to the "rouge" rule makes a lot of sense.  However, fans will never accept changing the field to make it like the American game. It would eliminate what makes our game unique. The timing of these changes is horrendous too, due to the current political situation, and the affection we have had for Canadian made goods and products, as well as our identity for obvious reasons.

[jets4life]

[Sir Blue and Gold]

We can argue with a straight face, that this has been tried repeatedly in the past, and never succeeded.

Whether it's the WFL, USFL, WLAF, XFL, UFL, or the CFL American teams.  All have failed.

If it's not the NFL, it will fail in the US.  In Canada, this will do nothing to spark interest in Southern Ontario, and will alienate fans in Western Canada, where traditionally the most successful franchises are located.  It's not going to work.

So why are they doing it then?

[Blue In BC]

I think the NFL could add another team in Texas. San Antonio, Forth Worth and Austin are # 7, # 11 and # 13 largest by population.  The population of Texas is a little over $31M

Fort Worth is close enough they could play in the same stadium as the Cowboys and create instant rivalry.

I see 31 college football programs and some of those stadiums are bigger than most CFL stadiums and big enough for NFL games.

Texans practically live for football.

[Waffler]

some of those stadiums are bigger than most CFL stadiums

One of the things that make us look bad are half empty stadiums. If we anticipate 30,000 fans that's roughly how big the stadium should be too.

To me American teams is not something I want. Baltimore had no Canadian ratio, won a cup, almost 2. I try to forget that era.

[theaardvark]

One of the things that make us look bad are half empty stadiums. If we anticipate 30,000 fans that's roughly how big the stadium should be too.

To me American teams is not something I want. Baltimore had no Canadian ratio, won a cup, almost 2. I try to forget that era.

The league should be banking on 20k-25K average crowds, for sure.  BC Place and Commonwealth were not purpose built for CFL, and hence have large numbers of unsold seats except for special occasions.  Every other stadium should be close to capacity for big games, and Ham, SSK and WPG can sell out regularly.

American teams, with no ratio would be a disaster, both from a talent perspective and a $SMS perspective.  There is a deeper pool of talent when half the teams is freed from passports, and you could field a team of above average players on ELC's and overpay your top stars.  I can't see non ratio teams ever being a part of the CFL again, unless they bust the union and drop ratio for everyone in a new CBA.  Which, if the CFL is about to fold, would be an option.  Again.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

The league should be banking on 20k-25K average crowds, for sure.  BC Place and Commonwealth were not purpose built for CFL, and hence have large numbers of unsold seats except for special occasions.  Every other stadium should be close to capacity for big games, and Ham, SSK and WPG can sell out regularly.

American teams, with no ratio would be a disaster, both from a talent perspective and a $SMS perspective.  There is a deeper pool of talent when half the teams is freed from passports, and you could field a team of above average players on ELC's and overpay your top stars.  I can't see non ratio teams ever being a part of the CFL again, unless they bust the union and drop ratio for everyone in a new CBA.  Which, if the CFL is about to fold, would be an option.  Again.

The days of building 50k+ stadiums in Canada should be over, ballooning construction costs and industry corruption make them ridiculously expensive and concerts or short term events like the World Cup or Olympics are not enough to justify building 40 year structures.  Canada is likely headed for a decade of restraint, anyone that didn't live through the 70's and high inflation is in for a big surprise.

[dd]

One of the things that make us look bad are half empty stadiums. If we anticipate 30,000 fans that's roughly how big the stadium should be too.

To me American teams is not something I want. Baltimore had no Canadian ratio, won a cup, almost 2. I try to forget that era.

Agreed. That was a black eye for the 'C' FL!! We sold our souls to the devil and they ended up folding anyways

[jets4life]

I think the NFL could add another team in Texas. San Antonio, Forth Worth and Austin are # 7, # 11 and # 13 largest by population.  The population of Texas is a little over $31M

Fort Worth is close enough they could play in the same stadium as the Cowboys and create instant rivalry.

I see 31 college football programs and some of those stadiums are bigger than most CFL stadiums and big enough for NFL games.

Texans practically live for football.

Texas is definitely in consideration for future NFL expansion, however, it would almost certainly be either Austin or San Antonio.  Austin has been the fastest growing large city (percentage wise) in North America for the past 20 years, with over 2.5 million people. San Antonio has roughly 3 million people.

There is no chance a team plays in Fort Worth. For one thing, Arlington, the city that the Dallas Cowboys play in, is in between Dallas and Fort Worth.  Secondly, the market is too dominated by the Cowboys.  Fort Worth is also relatively small compared to Dallas.

[blue_or_die]

So why are they doing it then?

That's literally what we've been asking.