QB Sliding for TD

[TecnoGenius]

VAJ sliding view 1

VAJ sliding view 1 slowed down

VAJ sliding view 2

[TecnoGenius]

Interesting, I hadn't noticed before but VAJ takes 3 total head hits:
1. fist to the head
2. knee to the head
3. turf to the head

Someone tell me this wouldn't have been a flag (from ref or EITS) last season when "QB protection" was on the menu.  This season protection is out of favor, apparently.

This also ties into my EITS thread about why did MOS need to challenge the hit on Zach?  Where is EITS??  Does this mean if Dickenson The Greater had challenged he too would have won?  He shouldn't have to.

I would bet large sums of money this hit on VAJ is getting fined this week.  And that's proof enough that EITS should have flagged it.  Something is majorly wrong with command and how these things are being handled this season.

[dd]

Adams was in the process of going down, 33 could have avoided contact altogether. suspension is in order here, fine is useless, players are still going to do it.

[Blueforlife]

Adams was in the process of going down, 33 could have avoided contact altogether. suspension is in order here, fine is useless, players are still going to do it.

I get the point but there will be no suspension but will be a fine
Unfortunate play to be sure

[TecnoGenius]

Ya, it'll be a fine, no doubt.  I think it should be a suspension.  But it won't be unless VAJ get diagnosed with a major concussion and prescribed 2 months off or something heavy like that -- something that impacts the CFL bottom line by ruining the "product".

Since VAJ is "younger" and hasn't had too many brain scrambles yet, he'll probably be fine tomorrow and practicing this week.  CGY literally won't win anything without him.  They're even more reliant upon VAJ than we are on Zach.

[Big Daddy]

Do QB's have any tiny bit of responsibility in this though? Years ago it was fairly straight-forward - when the QB is going forward and clearly sliding feet first, everything has to be done to avoid hitting.  When they bash through head first like a RB, they can be hit like a RB.

I'm not sure why QB's are doing these variations on sliding that can make it harder to tell in the split second that they are "giving themselves up".  Maybe I'm way off here, it just seemed clearer in the past when they would just obviously go down feet first.  Not that it necessarily made a difference with reffing getting the call right, but it seemed a bit easier to tell in hindsight and on video review.

[Blue In BC]

I don't see a reason for a suspension on those videos. He didn't slide feet first and I didn't see a defender trying to hit him in the head. VAJ also slid late and that makes it difficult to avoid this kind of hit.

[Jesse]

Do QB's have any tiny bit of responsibility in this though? Years ago it was fairly straight-forward - when the QB is going forward and clearly sliding feet first, everything has to be done to avoid hitting.  When they bash through head first like a RB, they can be hit like a RB.

I'm not sure why QB's are doing these variations on sliding that can make it harder to tell in the split second that they are "giving themselves up".  Maybe I'm way off here, it just seemed clearer in the past when they would just obviously go down feet first.  Not that it necessarily made a difference with reffing getting the call right, but it seemed a bit easier to tell in hindsight and on video review.

The league is willing to sacrifice the defence in an attempt to keep QBs safe.

It's not about being fair or reasonable, unfortunately/fortunately.

[Waffler]

It's normal to try to go over the QB when they slide. VAJ kept his head high AND 33 made sure he made some contact which happened to the highest point, the helmet. Kind of accidentally on purpose. A bit of blame to both. Also VAJ looks sideways near the end, not straight ahead. He has to protect himself. You can't leave it to the refs to call later.

[TBURGESS]

The Hammy one was a head to head hit. Obvious penalty.

They need to fix the sliding rule in the off season. QB's are taking advantage of sliding as late as possible and not actually giving themselves up. Then they want protection. I would give them that protection when they are behind the LOS, and treat them like a RB when they go past the LOS.

[TecnoGenius]

They need to fix the sliding rule in the off season. QB's are taking advantage of sliding as late as possible and not actually giving themselves up. Then they want protection.

You are correct.  But, every rule they require is already in the book.  The problem is the refs/command are NOT APPLYING THE RULES.

"The replay official will also automatically provide a spot to the officials when a passer gives themselves up by sliding".

"The [QB...] gives themself up by sliding in any manner or diving.  The ball is dead at the point it was held with another part of their body... touch the ground"

Almost every time a QB slides they are giving them max forward progress of the ball when they come to a stop.  What they are supposed to do is spot the ball where it was when the sliding/diving QB has something touch the ground.  They are usually giving the QB a free 1-3Y by mismanaging this rule.

I would go further and add a rule that makes the ball dead the moment the QB starts his slide/dive.  The QB gains zero extra forward progress after he starts his move towards the turf.  This would further disincentivize the D from whacking QBs.  And there's already a rule denying QBs faking a slide/dive from gaining from it.

[TecnoGenius]

I don't see a reason for a suspension on those videos. He didn't slide feet first

Irrelevant.  How many times do I have to say it: CFL added "diving" to the "QB giving themself up" rule a few seasons back.  TSN talked about it at length, that any movement towards the ground (forward, backward, upsidedown, diving, feet first, head first, doesn't matter) is now equal to a hook-slide.

This occurred during that stretch when QBs were dropping like flies and the on-screen product was suffering.

The entire point was to take away all ambiguity about QBs giving themselves up, to protect all of them from any hit when moving toward the ground.

Only this season has the league seemed to lose the plot.

and I didn't see a defender trying to hit him in the head.

Also irrelevant.  Once in a toward-the-turf motion the QB is protected against all "unnecessary contact".  You can't put your elbow in his gut in a UR manner, for instance, or just body-splat him.  It's clear as day:

Rule 7 - Section 2 - Article 5 - RTP
A player shall be penalized for any act of UR to the passer, including but not limited to:
(f) Contacting the quarterback unnecessarily after the quarterback slides to give them self up.

VAJ also slid late and that makes it difficult to avoid this kind of hit.

He certainly wasn't early.  But I think he did so in a more than timely manner, as far as these things go.  The D guy had more than enough time to just jump or dive over him (without the wings/knees getting the hits in).

We've seen flags many times for hits on later slides than this.  Many times.  The league tightened up after that "not late" sliding hit on Zach a few years back that rang his bell.

It's only this season they are making it open hunting season on QBs again.

[TecnoGenius]

When they bash through head first like a RB, they can be hit like a RB.

Read the last comment.  They changed this rule a couple/few seasons back so that DIVING is equal to a hook-slide.  Any slide/dive or motion towards the turf is now protected.

Do QB's have any tiny bit of responsibility in this though? Years ago it was fairly straight-forward - when the QB is going forward and clearly sliding feet first, everything has to be done to avoid hitting.
[...]
I'm not sure why QB's are doing these variations on sliding that can make it harder to tell in the split second that they are "giving themselves up".

This is why the rule I quoted MUST be read as "all slides/dives mean the QB is giving themself up".  It makes zero sense to add "diving" to the rule but then put the onus on D's and refs to guess "is he giving himself up?".  That is just stupid.

The only problem with requiring a "text book hook slide" is that there are some QBs who just can't do it well.  Zach sucks at it.  And many QBs are now doing this knee-first slide like we see here with VAJ & BLM (and Zach).

There can be nothing more straightforward than "QB moving towards the turf is protected from all contact" and "the ball is dead when he started" or alternatively "the ball is dead when his other body part touches the ground".  No intent required.  No ambiguity.  Super easy to police and for refs to call in real time.  Super easy for command to review.

That's the whole point of my OP: THERE SHOULD BE NO "HE'S GOING FOR IT"!  Command saying that is the dumbest, most dangerous thing they've done in the last decade.

[Blue In BC]

Irrelevant.  How many times do I have to say it: CFL added "diving" to the "QB giving themself up" rule a few seasons back.  TSN talked about it at length, that any movement towards the ground (forward, backward, upsidedown, diving, feet first, head first, doesn't matter) is now equal to a hook-slide.

This occurred during that stretch when QBs were dropping like flies and the on-screen product was suffering.

The entire point was to take away all ambiguity about QBs giving themselves up, to protect all of them from any hit when moving toward the ground.

Only this season has the league seemed to lose the plot.

Also irrelevant.  Once in a toward-the-turf motion the QB is protected against all "unnecessary contact".  You can't put your elbow in his gut in a UR manner, for instance, or just body-splat him.  It's clear as day:

Rule 7 - Section 2 - Article 5 - RTP
A player shall be penalized for any act of UR to the passer, including but not limited to:
(f) Contacting the quarterback unnecessarily after the quarterback slides to give them self up.

He certainly wasn't early.  But I think he did so in a more than timely manner, as far as these things go.  The D guy had more than enough time to just jump or dive over him (without the wings/knees getting the hits in).

We've seen flags many times for hits on later slides than this.  Many times.  The league tightened up after that "not late" sliding hit on Zach a few years back that rang his bell.

It's only this season they are making it open hunting season on QBs again.

None of that suggests the play calls for a suspension.Penalty sure, but that's it.