The Good, the bad, and the Ugly

[tlf]

The real ugly with this team is the third quarters where we cannot seem to score.

What kind of half time snack do we have anyhow? Turkey dinner that makes us sleepy? I'd love to see a 3rd quarter where we come out and are more energized and ready to go and take it to them and get a TD right off the bat.  What a dream!

[dd]

Who's in charge of the clock?? Good god man, how about everyone should be aware of when we're i. The last 3 minutes—-the refs call their own timeout and let the benches know there's 3 minutes left, and in that time period incomplete passes and the ball going out of bounds stops the clock. So if you're a team that's behind you're likely not going to run it, you're passing it, likely out or post patterns so the rgame chi era can get out of bounds. If you're ahead, you're going to run it and keep the ball in bounds so you can keep the clock moving and kill it

This ain't rocket science, but I agree with others, clock management has escaped our genius OC, that dude couldn't coach a peewee youth team!! Just a joke.

[markf]

Fans are restless.

We Need a solid win to calm everybody down.

[dd]

The good Lord himself couldn't win us this game vs Ticats, we are going to get lit up big time.

[TecnoGenius]

The on-field product was just fine in 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023... But now that it isn't, you're bothered by the front office cap...? Absurd.

He's onto something.  In 2019 we had a legit high-paid OC and DC.  Real legit guys that had been coaches/HCs/coords for a decade+ each.  MOS/KW split the coach's kitty with them.

Every contract since, MOS and KW have taken more and more.  The coach cap hasn't kept up with the MOS/KW demands.  First to go was Lapo, which let us pay "in house" Buck much less.  Buck's $ went up as he kept winning.  As Buck's went up the only way to keep giving everyone more was to shed Hall.  So now we have Younger, earning buckets less than Hall did.  Again, this let KW/MOS take even more, and keep bumping Buck up.

Finally Buck left, and we bring on no-name Hogan who is probably so budget it would make you laugh.  And so MOS/KW can get even more.  Oh ya, add in shedding a "real" STC for noob Miller...

Because both Younger (yes, even with bumps) is budget, and Hogan is mega-budget, MOS/KW can stay fat and happy.  They think they're worth it.  They're probably right.

But we are now at the end of the wick because there is no OC/DC combo more budget than what we have right now.  Any vet/normal OC/DC will instantly bust our cap.  Maybe we can keep it running like this 1 more season.  But unless the water boy is our next OC, and Fatboi takes over as DC, we literally can't get any cheaper at those spots.

That means that one of KW/MOS will have to go.  Because there is no more space for bumps, unless the CFL bails us out by upping the coach cap $250k next year or something.  Find me one HC/GM combo that is paid more than ours, excluding "2 hat" HC/GM's.  In fact, this exact problem is why there are so many 2-hat guys in the CFL right now.

You heard it here first.

[TecnoGenius]

It was LaPo's obsession which is wearing thinner with each passing year, O'Shea has no say in the offensive play calling other than to decide to gamble on 3rd, kick a FG or punt.

Not true.  MOS can set the tone and priority for the schemes, telling his OC the general direction he wants to go.

I have zero doubt that MOS was pivotal in making the 2-min drill an important thing here.  We had the best one for many seasons.  Same as Buck now in BC (as HC), he took a shambles 2-min drill to a top-3 one in just a few months as HC.

[TecnoGenius]

I agree for this year.  Osh has been really good at clock management for years, grinding things out with running plays when needed.  He's really been good at this for a long time. 

Except this year.  I don't know what is going on.  Was it LaPo and then Buck that were actually doing all that management on offense?

There's conflation here (not just you) between clock-bleeding and the 2-min drill.  These are 2 completely separate things, even though they are both "clock management".

Our team is still the top team for clock bleeding.  When we're up or the game is close we are bleeding that 19s off the clock every snap.  We love, and are kings of, shortening the game.  We've been this for many seasons now.  No change.

What we seem to have lost is the league-best 2-min drill.  I think that's what most are talking about here, complaining about the last drive before halftime.  Lapo/Buck were so good at it.  Even if MOS is saying "we need a top 2 min drill", it looks like Hogan hasn't mastered it yet.  And it shows.

[blue_gold_84]

He's onto something.

How? If this regime is at a point where guys like Walters and O'Shea are eating more up the FOSMS without considering how that impacts the rest of FO staff, then FIFO is basically dead.

And the regime has no one to blame but themselves.

[Waffler]

He's onto something.  In 2019 we had a legit high-paid OC and DC.  Real legit guys that had been coaches/HCs/coords for a decade+ each.  MOS/KW split the coach's kitty with them.

Every contract since, MOS and KW have taken more and more.  The coach cap hasn't kept up with the MOS/KW demands.  First to go was Lapo, which let us pay "in house" Buck much less.  Buck's $ went up as he kept winning.  As Buck's went up the only way to keep giving everyone more was to shed Hall.  So now we have Younger, earning buckets less than Hall did.  Again, this let KW/MOS take even more, and keep bumping Buck up.

Finally Buck left, and we bring on no-name Hogan who is probably so budget it would make you laugh.  And so MOS/KW can get even more.  Oh ya, add in shedding a "real" STC for noob Miller...

Because both Younger (yes, even with bumps) is budget, and Hogan is mega-budget, MOS/KW can stay fat and happy.  They think they're worth it.  They're probably right.

But we are now at the end of the wick because there is no OC/DC combo more budget than what we have right now.  Any vet/normal OC/DC will instantly bust our cap.  Maybe we can keep it running like this 1 more season.  But unless the water boy is our next OC, and Fatboi takes over as DC, we literally can't get any cheaper at those spots.

That means that one of KW/MOS will have to go.  Because there is no more space for bumps, unless the CFL bails us out by upping the coach cap $250k next year or something.  Find me one HC/GM combo that is paid more than ours, excluding "2 hat" HC/GM's.  In fact, this exact problem is why there are so many 2-hat guys in the CFL right now.

You heard it here first.

Was this the post that was supposed to get you banned?

First of all how do you know what any of the coaches make?

MOS is in the last year of a 3 year deal, likely making little more than he did in 2023. Kyle Walters the same except on a 2 year deal. Both expiring at the end of this year.

Younger could have left Winnipeg but they opted to give him DC and a pay bump, I assume close to market value because he had options. Not sure why you say he is paid so little. Hogan probably is paid less but he does not have options.

So where did the Hogan savings go if MOS/KW are both already under contract? More likely Hall + Younger and Jackson + Hogan evens out any pay savings.

Saying we had a "real" STC coach before Miller is kind of a jaw dropper. Paul Boudreau? He went to Hamilton and didn't last a single season. Fired in July his first year.

Let's say it DID go to MOS/KW, then we have the same problem we do with our players, winning made everyone expensive. A blow up would be inevitable but without the salary numbers we can say nothing definitively.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Was this the post that was supposed to get you banned?

First of all how do you know what any of the coaches make?

MOS is in the last year of a 3 year deal, likely making little more than he did in 2023. Kyle Walters the same except on a 2 year deal. Both expiring at the end of this year.

Younger could have left Winnipeg but they opted to give him DC and a pay bump, I assume close to market value because he had options. Not sure why you say he is paid so little. Hogan probably is paid less but he does not have options.

So where did the Hogan savings go if MOS/KW are both already under contract? More likely Hall + Younger and Jackson + Hogan evens out any pay savings.

Saying we had a "real" STC coach before Miller is kind of a jaw dropper. Paul Boudreau? He went to Hamilton and didn't last a single season. Fired in July his first year.

Let's say it DID go to MOS/KW, then we have the same problem we do with our players, winning made everyone expensive. A blow up would be inevitable but without the salary numbers we can say nothing definitively.

Fair to say Walters and MOS have levelled off at reasonable salary ceilings and would be unlikely to rob Peter to pay Paul as it would have a negative effect on the organization, which appears to be their main passion.  Richie Hall and JJ may have accepted lower than expected wages in order to keep their hand in the game while allowing the 3 young co-ords to receive league standard pay for their positions. The notion that every one always gets a bump doesn't match salary cap reality.

[TecnoGenius]

How? If this regime is at a point where guys like Walters and O'Shea are eating more up the FOSMS without considering how that impacts the rest of FO staff, then FIFO is basically dead.

FIFO is for the players, not the coaches.  Coaches are special.  (And it's kinda true)

And even with FIFO players jockey for extra $.  Zach doesn't give back some of his arguably too-high salary.  Many players hold out for big coin.  Some do let a bit be clawed back to "help the team win", yes, but most of those are already very highly paid.  KW generally offers within 10% of market value for most players we retain.

[markf]

Approach is probably similar to, the players salary.

What % does Zach get of players budget.

[TecnoGenius]

First of all how do you know what any of the coaches make?

Every time a coach/coord contract is up and MOS/KW do a presser there is mention of how difficult it is to keep everyone paid to what they "deserve".  Especially when Buck contracts were up and/or teams were trying to steal him as HC.  MOS outright said the cap makes it hard to keep everyone.

In fact, the one I'm thinking of is the off-season they "dumped" Hall for Younger.  Then magically there was enough money to keep Buck.  Without that move Buck was gone.

Younger could have left Winnipeg but they opted to give him DC and a pay bump, I assume close to market value because he had options. Not sure why you say he is paid so little. Hogan probably is paid less but he does not have options.

Younger, in his first year, was probably the lowest paid DC in the league.  You don't have to give him Hall's money that season, you just need to bump him compared to his "assistant whatever" salary.  Why pay a rookie DC 10 year vet DC money?  You don't need to.

As for Hogan, I bet we pay him half, or even a third or fourth, of what we paid Buck.  (Of course he'll get bumps each year he stays, more if he does well -- probably built into the contract.)

So where did the Hogan savings go if MOS/KW are both already under contract? More likely Hall + Younger and Jackson + Hogan evens out any pay savings.

I don't know if they have contracted yearly bumps, or just wait until their contract year to get it all in one huge bump.  The Hogan move may have been preemptive to open up the space before the KW/MOS contract negotiations.

As for the Jarius/Hall "assistant" salaries... I think they are being creative with how they remunerate those guys.

Let's say it DID go to MOS/KW, then we have the same problem we do with our players, winning made everyone expensive. A blow up would be inevitable but without the salary numbers we can say nothing definitively.

Bingo.  That's precisely what I was saying.

And I think the main reason we didn't see Lapo back is that there was no way in any universe we could fit him into our coaches cap.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Every time a coach/coord contract is up and MOS/KW do a presser there is mention of how difficult it is to keep everyone paid to what they "deserve".  Especially when Buck contracts were up and/or teams were trying to steal him as HC.  MOS outright said the cap makes it hard to keep everyone.

In fact, the one I'm thinking of is the off-season they "dumped" Hall for Younger.  Then magically there was enough money to keep Buck.  Without that move Buck was gone.

Younger, in his first year, was probably the lowest paid DC in the league.  You don't have to give him Hall's money that season, you just need to bump him compared to his "assistant whatever" salary.  Why pay a rookie DC 10 year vet DC money?  You don't need to.

As for Hogan, I bet we pay him half, or even a third or fourth, of what we paid Buck.  (Of course he'll get bumps each year he stays, more if he does well -- probably built into the contract.)

I don't know if they have contracted yearly bumps, or just wait until their contract year to get it all in one huge bump.  The Hogan move may have been preemptive to open up the space before the KW/MOS contract negotiations.

As for the Jarius/Hall "assistant" salaries... I think they are being creative with how they remunerate those guys.

Bingo.  That's precisely what I was saying.

And I think the main reason we didn't see Lapo back is that there was no way in any universe we could fit him into our coaches cap.

Bumps??? How bumps? Under the coach's salary cap guaranteed Walters spends every penny allotted, so if one guy gets a bump, another guy gets a chop, he won't spend more than what is allowed. Buck left so the budget probably got re-jigged this season, but without coaching changes salaries are probably maxed out. Perhaps Walters negotiated multi year contracts with the coaching staff, so they know exactly what they're getting paid a year in advance..

[dd]

I highly doubt that MOS is gouging us for a high salary at the expense of paying his other coaches peanuts. That's not MOS. He would pay people a fair salary and to suggest KW and MOS are taking advantage of their other coaches without factual information is nothing short of slander. They both deserve better than that. Pretty disappointed there's a post that even suggests that's what's going on.