CFL financial status

[Blue In BC]

On Wednesday, CFL commissioner Stewart Johnston said the league needs to find ways to drive revenue. "Seven of nine teams did not make money last year. That's not a sustainable business model," said Johnston.

The two profitable teams, Johnston said, are the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and Prairie rivals the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

Johnston, who was appointed to the league's top job in April, said a major part of getting more people in the seats is fostering early love for the game among potential new fan and to grow the fandom around the sport.

That's not good news and it contradicts the SMS increase and revenue sharing posted for this season.

[bomb squad]

On Wednesday, CFL commissioner Stewart Johnston said the league needs to find ways to drive revenue. "Seven of nine teams did not make money last year. That's not a sustainable business model," said Johnston.

The two profitable teams, Johnston said, are the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and Prairie rivals the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

Johnston, who was appointed to the league's top job in April, said a major part of getting more people in the seats is fostering early love for the game among potential new fan and to grow the fandom around the sport.

That's not good news and it contradicts the SMS increase and revenue sharing posted for this season.

What exactly is being contradicted? Was there a different claim made with respect to team profits?

[Blue In BC]

What exactly is being contradicted? Was there a different claim made with respect to team profits?

How do you get an increase in overall revenue when 7 teams are not making a profit. Did all of the total revenue only come from the Bombers and Riders?

If 7 teams are losing money what sense does it make to increase the SMS by $450K or whatever that amount was mentioned.

I don't remember reading about that when new SMS was mentioned and that seems like a contradiction to me.

[Jesse]

I was wondering about this too. A couple possibilities:

1. The profits from the Bombers and Riders exceed the loses from the other teams. Most could be breaking even or thereabouts.

2. The teams themselves lost money, but this is before league revenue from the TV deals and any other league revenue is added to the equation.

[Stats Junkie]

In its simplest form

Profit = Revenues - Expenditures

Revenues were up significantly in 2024 and SMS is tied to the revenue side of the ledger.

[Blue In BC]

In its simplest form

Profit = Revenues - Expenditures

Revenues were up significantly in 2024 and SMS is tied to the revenue side of the ledger.

IIRC, Bombers recorded a $7M+ profit and the Riders about $2.1M. We don't know how much the other 7 teams lost combined. We only know they didn't record profits. Also don't know what those numbers looked like in 2023.

[The Zipp]

cfl and cfl teams are going to have to get into schools in a big way to get the younger fans engaged. maybe brand all school supplies and give them out...everyone gets an argos pencil case??

when the commish is talking about things being "unsustainable" that isn't great.

just partner with the NFL in some way already

[gobombersgo]

cfl and cfl teams are going to have to get into schools in a big way to get the younger fans engaged. maybe brand all school supplies and give them out...everyone gets an argos pencil case??

when the commish is talking about things being "unsustainable" that isn't great.

just partner with the NFL in some way already

I remember when I was a kid and the Bombers in partnership with the police came out with football cards.

I eagerly collected the whole set and I think it was part of what got me interested in the team.

[Blue In BC]

cfl and cfl teams are going to have to get into schools in a big way to get the younger fans engaged. maybe brand all school supplies and give them out...everyone gets an argos pencil case??

when the commish is talking about things being "unsustainable" that isn't great.

just partner with the NFL in some way already

I'm not in favour of an NFL partnership but someone would have to explain how that would work and improve our lot. I wonder how they know about the teams that are privately owned profitability? Not that it matters but did any team going in 2023 have to pay for coaches fired that reflected in a better position in 2024?

[TecnoGenius]

just partner with the NFL in some way already

Why would the NFL do that?  They're the big dog and anything we beg of them will cost major coin, thus defeating the purpose.

[TecnoGenius]

I've always yelled we need to get kids out to games.  Cheaper kids STs everywhere except premium sections.  I noticed WFC had an ad up on the scoreboard about a new kids pricing scheme, but I'll bet it still doesn't include inside-the-30s tickets.  Dad won't give up great 55YL seats just to get cheaper tickets for the tots.

Every stadium needs to let fans on the field post-game.  Every. Single. One.  Costs virtually nothing except extending staff hours by 30 mins or so.

However, all of the kid ideas will only pay off 15-20 years down the road.  They will not pay off to any significant extent immediately.  CFL also needs ideas to get more butts in seats in the short term.

[Jesse]

I've always yelled we need to get kids out to games.  Cheaper kids STs everywhere except premium sections.  I noticed WFC had an ad up on the scoreboard about a new kids pricing scheme, but I'll bet it still doesn't include inside-the-30s tickets.  Dad won't give up great 55YL seats just to get cheaper tickets for the tots.

Every stadium needs to let fans on the field post-game.  Every. Single. One.  Costs virtually nothing except extending staff hours by 30 mins or so.

However, all of the kid ideas will only pay off 15-20 years down the road.  They will not pay off to any significant extent immediately.  CFL also needs ideas to get more butts in seats in the short term.

If the point is to get kids to the game, I don't know if extending the night past midnight really helps with that. I took my daughter last game and we bolted as soon as the clock clicked down. She still didn't get to bed until around 11:30.

[TecnoGenius]

If the point is to get kids to the game, I don't know if extending the night past midnight really helps with that.

Then you haven't stayed after the game then!  Tons of kids, and tons of teens.  More families than lone adults.  Check out the line to meet Buzz & Boomer!  Ya, the youngest fans aren't too numerous on 7:30 KO nights, but lots of 8 & up.

It's not as late as you think, either.  It takes 10-15 mins after final whistle before you can actually get on the field.  Then maybe 25-30 mins before they kick everyone out.

So in reality you could take an extra 30 mins after final whistle to make the kids happy.  That's the time you'd be sitting not moving in traffic anyhow.  It really isn't anything, especially on a weekend.

Games are usually 3 hrs without OT, so that means you are on the field until 11pm at worst.  Then no traffic after that.

Try the field next time and you'll be shocked how much your kid(s) love it.

[Blue In BC]

Ok, so where have expenditures gone up? Anybody that has taken a trip anywhere knows travel costs ( airline ) have gone up quite a bit in recent years post covid. Hotel costs and food costs for teams travelling are up.

[Jesse]

Then you haven't stayed after the game then!  Tons of kids, and tons of teens.  More families than lone adults.  Check out the line to meet Buzz & Boomer!  Ya, the youngest fans aren't too numerous on 7:30 KO nights, but lots of 8 & up.

It's not as late as you think, either.  It takes 10-15 mins after final whistle before you can actually get on the field.  Then maybe 25-30 mins before they kick everyone out.

So in reality you could take an extra 30 mins after final whistle to make the kids happy.  That's the time you'd be sitting not moving in traffic anyhow.  It really isn't anything, especially on a weekend.

Games are usually 3 hrs without OT, so that means you are on the field until 11pm at worst.  Then no traffic after that.

Try the field next time and you'll be shocked how much your kid(s) love it.

I'm sure they would love it...it's just too late, imo. And I'm glad some people enjoy it, but it's still not ideal for kids.

[bwiser]

I remember when I was a kid and the Bombers in partnership with the police came out with football cards.

I eagerly collected the whole set and I think it was part of what got me interested in the team.

I am likely older than you and I remember trading cards from ESSo that got me interested in the CFL.I was a paper boy for the Winnipeg Tribune and if you got a certain amount of new starts you were given a couple tickets to the next Bomber game. Paul Williams a defensive back with the Bombers at the time used to do this dance when he scored. He came to our newspaper shack and did the dance for the paper boys.These events got me interested in CFL football and I have been hooked ever since.

[Blue In BC]

Attendance in 2025 down in Montreal, Calgary and Edmonton. In Edmonton it's down by nearly 6K or about 30% less than 2024.

Overall attendance is only down about 500 fans per game. Winnipeg has the 2nd highest average behind only BC.

[peg_city]

Attendance in 2025 down in Montreal, Calgary and Edmonton. In Edmonton it's down by nearly 6K or about 30% less than 2024.

Overall attendance is only down about 500 fans per game. Winnipeg has the 2nd highest average behind only BC.

Attendance usually picks up in the fall

[Blue In BC]

Attendance usually picks up in the fall

The comparison was in the same time frame each year. If you've watched the Elks home game it's almost predictable how small their crowds have been.

[Foxhound]

Speaking of kids, I keep wondering why we haven't seen CFL coins in potato chips for over sixty years. CFL coins were in Humpty Dumpty, Krun-Chee, Nalley's and Hunter's potato chips in 1963 and Nalley's in 1964. Some examples from my collection:

1963







1964




They're much beloved by present day CFL collectors!

Does the CFL ask too much in licencing fees?

 

[TecnoGenius]

Ok, so where have expenditures gone up? Anybody that has taken a trip anywhere knows travel costs ( airline ) have gone up quite a bit in recent years post covid. Hotel costs and food costs for teams travelling are up.

Pretty sure all the teams use a private jet.  From what I saw, the W teams appear to have their own private plane to share.  They showed guys getting off it once and it was painted with all(?) the W team logos on the side.  Would make perfect sense.  So that's a fixed amortized cost.

Petroleum products are about the same as they were before 2019.  Pilot costs almost certainly up, but that's basically just 2 people, and they probably "rent" them when they need them.

[TecnoGenius]

Attendance in 2025 down in Montreal, Calgary and Edmonton. In Edmonton it's down by nearly 6K or about 30% less than 2024.

Good for nothing Montrealites!  They win the E by a country mile, only losing out in an unlucky EDF.  Get arguably the best young QB in the league who they can win with for the next 7 years.  And they don't want to show up to fill that dinky stadium?

I guess all the horn guys have cancelled their STs in protest!!  Bring back the horns!     

Sacre bleu!

[TecnoGenius]

Overall attendance is only down about 500 fans per game. Winnipeg has the 2nd highest average behind only BC.

Haha, BC cheaters.  It won't take long for the law of averages to smooth out that first game (cheating) blip from Snoop.  Nice try, Doman.  WFC doesn't need to bribe fans to attend with $1M concerts!

[Blue In BC]

Pretty sure all the teams use a private jet.  From what I saw, the W teams appear to have their own private plane to share.  They showed guys getting off it once and it was painted with all(?) the W team logos on the side.  Would make perfect sense.  So that's a fixed amortized cost.

Petroleum products are about the same as they were before 2019.  Pilot costs almost certainly up, but that's basically just 2 people, and they probably "rent" them when they need them.

I'm not sure about whether teams have private jets. That could be valid but I haven't herd that before.

If revenue is up but 7 teams lost money, where else might be the issue? IR costs might be part of the issue. Even though 6 game IR doesn't count against the SMS it does count against profit and loss. Medical costs are up and that doesn't count against SMS.

Overall watching some games is a little like watching USFL games with sparse crowds. I'd like to see some marketing incentives for 1st responder and military groups. You know maybe a specific section with a 2 for 1 offer or something.

Note this would be useful where crowds are low like Edmonton

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I'm not sure about whether teams have private jets. That could be valid but I haven't herd that before.

If revenue is up but 7 teams lost money, where else might be the issue? IR costs might be part of the issue. Even though 6 game IR doesn't count against the SMS it does count against profit and loss. Medical costs are up and that doesn't count against SMS.

Overall watching some games is a little like watching USFL games with sparse crowds. I'd like to see some marketing incentives for 1st responder and military groups. You know maybe a specific section with a 2 for 1 offer or something.

Note this would be useful where crowds are low like Edmonton

No, don't think so, most professional sports team charter long-term, it wouldn't be cost effective to own a plane solely for 10-15 trips per year.  The biggest complaint Bomber players had in last year's player survey was regarding the plane, and it looks like Wade heard them and upgraded the charter service to quell discontent.

[Jesse]

No, don't think so, most professional sports team charter long-term, it wouldn't be cost effective to own a plane solely for 10-15 trips per year.  The biggest complaint Bomber players had in last year's player survey was regarding the plane, and it looks like Wade heard them and upgraded the charter service to quell discontent.

Yes. They do not own a plane, lol.

[blue_or_die]

This debate largely comes down to us having no idea what the private teams are spending due to them not having to disclose their books. Cap is tied to revenue which is a little easier to estimate given we know their tv money + have an idea about gate. Expenses are a very different beast with such variance in marketing, non-football ops, facilities, scouting and the list goes on. Are the privately owned teams blowing a load on that stuff? My gut says no but it's entirely possible their expenses outweigh their revenue when it's already razor thin. Think of how much more money the Bombers and Riders make on merch sales or pregame beers near/outside the stadium compared to the Argos. Without multiple strong revenue streams beyond the tsn contract and, for many teams, precarious gate, it's not hard to imagine them flying by the seam of their pants unfortunately.

Does anyone know if the private teams are obligated to open their books to the league and just not the public? Curious if they actually do know everything or just as in the dark as us dumb fans.

One last thing...and I don't mean to sound rude but the fan suggestions in this thread and beyond are always very lacking. And no, I don't have a better answer to "fix" the league and create growth in both the short and long terms, but I don't think letting kids on the field more or putting collectible coins in fruit loop boxes or discounting some kids tickets or making the rules more like the NFL are going to do diddly squat. Some of those are decent ideas, but insignificant impact nonetheless IMO as much as I wish I was wrong.

[TecnoGenius]

I'm not sure about whether teams have private jets. That could be valid but I haven't herd that before.

Ehem...  I've seen many "getting off the plane shots" of CFL teams and the planes have the logos on the sides.  Granted, I haven't seen this for maybe 3 years, so who knows what they do now.

If these aren't team-group-owned, then they clearly are sponsored and heavily geared towards the CFL, with at least one plane per division  Painting and unpainting a jet aircraft is not a trivial thing.

I guess it could be an airline that partners with the CFL and reserves planes for CFL teams to travel in-season and uses them for whatever in the off-season.

[TecnoGenius]

This debate largely comes down to us having no idea what the private teams are spending due to them not having to disclose their books.

Yes.  If the books are closed, keep in mind the "rich owner" teams can easily be paying their owners a "salary" of whatever, say $1M, and thus even if they had a "profit" of $900k, it would be a loss after the owner taking whatever the heck they please.

but I don't think letting kids on the field more or putting collectible coins in fruit loop boxes or discounting some kids tickets or making the rules more like the NFL are going to do diddly squat. Some of those are decent ideas, but insignificant impact nonetheless IMO as much as I wish I was wrong.

But the "useless" things you list are precisely why nearly all of us are here on this forum and WPG STHs right now!  I'm only here right now because my dad took me to a couple games a year in the 80's-90's, and the Game Program always had a page showing all the ref hand signs which I liked to memorize as a kid.  Now I'm here, dropping thousands a year on WFC (and CFL in general, too), and taking *my* kids to the games...

Yes, the "payoff" from getting kids out to games is a slow, long-term payoff.  But if you don't start now, then the seats will be more empty in 20 years.

Kids on the field is the hill I'll die on because it literally costs almost nothing other than 30-60m more labor from the security staff.  Not only should every team do this, but they should advertise it heavily so lay-people with kids know about it and can see how it works!

Sure, we need other, bigger ideas, but those cost money, so why not do every single low-hanging fruit thing first?

[Waffler]

I can only tell you what got me interested and that was playing football on the boulevard with my friends. In those days you could be out all day and no one had anywhere they had to be. 

[Sir Blue and Gold]

...When the commissioner says seven out of nine teams did not make money, he isn't actually saying 7 out of 9 teams aren't profitable and there's a clear distinction there.

My assumption is that he means game day revenues (inc. sponsorship) minus total team expenses. 

The TV deal is roughly $50M a year or about $5.5M a team (unconfirmed by Bell) which comes very close to covering the entire player salary cap of every team combined. If you were to factor that in along with the other revenue sharing from Grey Cup it's a different financial picture, hence why the salary cap is going up. That's not to suggest anyone's making bank, but it's probably not as dire as it sounds.

You also need to think a bit strategically here - he's already negotiating that next contract with his words here.

[theaardvark]

Millionaires / Billionaires owing franchises that lose money is not uncommon.  The losses on these teams, while big numbers for you and me are rounding errors for them, and write offs.  Its not a huge concern in my books, so long as we can get passionate owners with deep pockets.

Yes, Winnipeg is a model that makes money/sense, but a lot of our current success is because of our current success on the field.  Its hard in Edm. to sell tickets knowing the on field product is that bad.  BC has a huge facility to fill, which no doubt has a large nut to cover.  CGY had a dynasty, now they just die nasty.  Toronto is Toronto, until they get some more colourful characters to sell tickets, who knows, Montreal must be doing better with their recent success.  I find it hard to believe that Hamilton is losing money, again, more success on field would help, no doubt.

If the league was a little more balanced, gate might be a bit better.  But in general, while its "not a solid business model", most sports leagues aren't. 

Most are vanity driven, and maintaining the actual status of the league by raising $SMS levels, banning air horns, being more open about neg lists and salaries, better data mining ability and more accurate stats tracking and availability, all these things will make for a better, less unprofitable league.

Worst comes to worst, we can sell it to the Rock (just joking)

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Ti-Cat caretaker Bob Young seems to be divesting his ownership of the team, last year he sold 40% to Stelco and this year he sold another chunk to former player Marwan Hage.

[bomb squad]

Ti-Cat caretaker Bob Young seems to be divesting his ownership of the team, last year he sold 40% to Stelco and this year he sold another chunk to former player Marwan Hage.

He deserved better.