Luke Willson goes off on the CFL..

[The Zipp]

Don't watch the NFL except for the Super Bowl, NFL is run oriented which is boring, CFL is pass oriented produces more excitement.

that was your dad's NFL.  They have evolved

[RebusRankin]

Wilson was an average at best NFL player who thinks he's too big for the CFL and is longing to get a shot down south.

[J5V]

When we were kids playing football we played CFL rules, not NFL rules. We loved the CFL game because it's our game. I'm sure the kids down South play NFL rules for the same reason.

As an adult I find the NFL boring as hell! You need 4 downs to get 10 yards? Really? No motion in the backfield? Small field, 11 players, fair catch? Boring.

[TecnoGenius]

You are right and I said that audience size on TV is a relevant marker

Everyone here is wrong.  The biggest sport by audience in the entire world is... F1 racing, and it has been for a loooong time.

https://www.autoracing1.com/pl/438726/f1-news-f1-is-the-largest-sport-in-the-world-with-750-million-fans/

750 million fans worldwide.  50M new fans since 2021.  I've watched for 25 years and gone to a couple.

Most races draw 150k people as paid butts-in-seats.  And most seats are $400-$800 CAD.  NFL doesn't have that draw because one stadium can't hold much more than half that many.

F1 is ahead of every league except the NFL in total sponsorship revenue (2.04B vs 2.49B) but since there are only 10 F1 teams vs 32 NFL teams, the sponsors spend way more per team.  That makes it much more lucrative to be an F1 team than a NFL team.

I bring this up because F1 is growing by leaps and bounds now, and the CFL can learn from their success.  There's many reasons for it, and I haven't researched it much, but to me I see 2 differences in F1 post-pandemic:

1. 41% of F1 viewers are female.  30 years ago it was basically all guys.  I think hyping the drivers and showing their faces all over the place (theme intros, tons of pressers/debriefs) is part of this.  Ladies like fit young guys.  The CFL has that too!  Do more of the player faces/bodies on intros like they're doing with the singing thing.  In fact, that might be why the CFL did the slightly-cringe singing thing... it may have done well with female focus groups!  (Now I gotta go ask my wife!)

2. Really upping the FX/graphics, songs, bling, etc.  Kids love this stuff.  The more you make it like a video game, the more they'll watch.  F1 has great intros now, and stats/graphics everywhere during a race.  4k screens mean you can put info bits everywhere.  More data!  Show live-time player running speed, acceleration, etc.  Ball speed, distance.  Everything.  Kids are more aspergers and nerdy now, so play on that.

Oh ya, and like F1 at a few tracks, and PAS, every team should allow fans on the field post-game.  This is the #1 way to get families coming, along with reduced ticket prices for kids in more sections than just the bargain areas.

[TecnoGenius]

I'm sure the true-Blue CFL crowd on here would loudly tell everyone we don't need them, but the owners in Edmonton, Toronto, Calgary and BC might feel differently -- you know, the people who pay for this thing.

Why is it always "you need to be more like NFL to attract the NFL fans"?  Many people here don't watch the NFL, outside of the playoffs (i.e. me).  I'm going to do a random survey of the STHers sitting around me this Thursday.  I bet half don't watch NFL.

There are a zillion people in Canada who don't watch the NFL at all, or just the post-season.  So screw the NFL and trying to emulate their rules.  Reach out to the non-football people.  They don't even have to be sports fans/people (I'm not!).

You get them to a game.  I don't care how.  Discounts.  Bring-a-friend nights.  Referral bonuses.  $5 kids tickets.  Snoop Dog.  Just get them to a game so they can see if it's for them.  Some will get the bug and return and eventually grow into STH.

And you don't have to even be a winning team (but it doesn't hurt).  I started being a fan again in '12-'14 and the first 6 games I attended were 6 in a row where we lost every single one (bad luck picking which games to come to).  I loved it anyhow!  If the team shows respect in their attempt, and the club respect for its fans, that's enough.  SSK lost all those fans under Dickenson The Lesser because there was no seriousness or respect, just aww shucks we'll take the team bowling.  I read the forums.

I've been to 5 current stadiums so far, and I can't think of a better way to spend a hot-but-cooling summer night than sitting watching some CFL at these great places.  And I'm sure the other 4 stadiums are just as nice.  No excuses, CFL!

[TecnoGenius]

I don't love the yard off the ball. It leads to toes being offside and changes the line play a bit to where American players need adjusting. Just align it with the NFL.

Players go off-side all the time in the NFL too!  If anything, it makes it harder to judge bad alignment because they're all packed up so close together.

You can't get rid of the CFL neutral zone because of the 3 downs.  So you need to have both, or neither.

It would be catastrophic to ditch the neutral zone and remain 3 downs!  The number of punts/FGs might double.  If they snuck 20 times the game Luke is whinging about, then that's 20 more punts that game.  Ya, real improvement.

The Mafia philosophy is you don't need to get 10 in 2 attempts, you need to only get 8.5.  The sneak should be 95% (preferably 99%) automatic on a MOS team.  Every smart CFL team should seek to emulate.

[TecnoGenius]

i agree with him on the penalties - are those a result of:

poor coaching, earlier in the season, not enough practice time, no practice with pads, player talent, over exuberant refs??  likely a combo plate..

Yes.

But here, it's mostly early-in-season.

It's also player continuity.  If you want early-season to not suck so bad for so many teams, then improve player retention.  I don't care how you do it, just do it.  My SMS-relief-based-on-years-with-team idea I've said for years would basically solve this over night.

We should strive for a league where maybe 1 big name leaves a team each FA, not 5.  Look at the Bomber Store jerseys -- still lots of non-Bombers for sale.  And look at the bobblehead collection for sale!  2 of the 3 ones are no longer Bombers!

Player retention/continuity also draws/keeps fans because people get emotionally attached to these guys!!

[TecnoGenius]

Luke Wilson: It's bold face lies.

Hard to take mullet-porn-stache man seriously when he blows this idiom.  "Bald faced lies" is the expression.  It's not a stupid font in Word!  And no, Merriam adding "bold" as a legitimate option because everyone is stupid and Word/fonts became big in the 90s doesn't make it right: certainly not any more than "chomping at the bit" is a thing.

If you want to be taken seriously as a reporter/writer, as in that's your paid day job, learn to write.

[Jesse]

Maybe not exclusively. But it would probably help in some cases. You'd have to do the market research to find out how significantly.

If the AHL played on European ice, with an extra forward and awarded .5 of a point for hitting the post the predictable net result would be that less Jets fans would attend Moose games.

The only question is market size -- that is whether there are enough Jets fans who would be interested in going to Moose games if it were more similar to make it worth your while. I think that's an open question. But at some point if (young now, all at some point) consumers expect football is played a certain way and you offer a less popular alternative, you need to either live with the market share you have and try minimize the attrition or you make a change.

I think the CFL can exist quite comfortably with what it has now and what it's built. But I wouldn't expect significant growth without change.

We see this over and over in the states. People try to start new football leagues. They change the rules to make it more violent or more exciting or "fix" the problems.

It universally fails.

Because people don't watch football or hockey or any sport for the rules. In many cases not even because they like the sport at all. It's because they grew up watching on their dad's knee or their from the hometown or because it's a fun atmosphere when you go.

There's not a single rule that can be changed that will affect a single person watching. Or we'd all be on a UFL board right now.

[Jesse]

Why is it always "you need to be more like NFL to attract the NFL fans"?  Many people here don't watch the NFL, outside of the playoffs (i.e. me).  I'm going to do a random survey of the STHers sitting around me this Thursday.  I bet half don't watch NFL.

The biggest, most effective thing the CFL is doing to be like the NFL is adding fantasy and betting.

That's a huge part of what drives it. So many people who watch sports...don't really watch.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

We see this over and over in the states. People try to start new football leagues. They change the rules to make it more violent or more exciting or "fix" the problems.

It universally fails.

Because people don't watch football or hockey or any sport for the rules. In many cases not even because they like the sport at all. It's because they grew up watching on their dad's knee or their from the hometown or because it's a fun atmosphere when you go.

There's not a single rule that can be changed that will affect a single person watching. Or we'd all be on a UFL board right now.

The rules in this case shape the product - sometimes in substantial ways. No one watches football for "holding" calls but if you got rid of holding it would change the game/product quite significantly, and probably not for the better. If we're talking about marketing to new fans, then the rules are a relevant ingredient from the perspective of its shaping of the product (watching or attending a CFL game).

If we're looking at scale, the US is a football factory and they train on NFL rules from 5 years-old. If we aligned some of our rules, the jump would be easier. If we relaxed the ratio, we'd have a bigger pool of talent and therefore, fairly unquestionably, a better product. That might not be enough to make an NFL fan happy but a better quality product is in everyone's best interest. Everything starts with product (which seems to be Luke's point).

Additionally, I'm not saying the league needs to go after NFL fans living in Canada. I'm simply suggesting that to me it sounds like a viable audience. It may be that through research (that I'm sure the league has done) that this group may not be easily motived and while it looks tempting, their existing perceptions of the CFL may be too costly to overcome or the group may be too small and therefore not worth the time and effort. You're usually looking for the next lowest hanging fruit as a marketer.

Maybe it's new Canadians. Maybe it's younger people who don't watch the NFL, rural communities. This is typically the work of marketing to diagnose and find out though. Some combination.

One thing I hope you're wrong about though is your description of 'why' people watch. If they watch because their Dad did or because it's a fun atmosphere, what happens when it's not a fun atmosphere (Edmonton, Toronto) or even worse, Dads don't watch because they prefer the NFL or other alternatives? Are you suggesting that the league is out of options for those people? If those are indeed the real reasons, and they don't make changes, then the CFL will assuredly slowly die of attrition.

[blue_gold_84]

If the AHL played on European ice, with an extra forward and awarded .5 of a point for hitting the post the predictable net result would be that less Jets fans would attend Moose games. 

Weird hypothetical. What's the point of such commentary and how does it relate to the historical differences between American and Canadian football?

The biggest, most effective thing the CFL is doing to be like the NFL is adding fantasy and betting.

That's a huge part of what drives it. So many people who watch sports...don't really watch.

I hate that you're right about this. Sports are a money-making machine and that's only intensified with sports betting becoming more popular in recent years.

[markf]

When we were kids playing football we played CFL rules, not NFL rules. We loved the CFL game because it's our game. I'm sure the kids down South play NFL rules for the same reason.

As an adult I find the NFL boring as hell! You need 4 downs to get 10 yards? Really? No motion in the backfield? Small field, 11 players, fair catch? Boring.

I think NFL offences are trying to copy (as much as they can) the motion that we have. At least that was the discussion I heard watching a few games.  Innovative!

Another thing.... Way back when, the NFL sneered at our quarterbacks, "scrambling", "backyard, sandlot" and they had the pocket passer statues.

But they copied us, since Mahomes. Now a running qb is a -ok.

They just had to come up with a description that sounded "scientific"

Like "Designed run"  and "off schedule"

So much baloney from down there.

I agree, I watch every cfl game.   but I struggle to get through even one NFL game a week.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Weird hypothetical. What's the point of such commentary and how does it relate to the historical differences between American and Canadian football?

I hate that you're right about this. Sports are a money-making machine and that's only intensified with sports betting becoming more popular in recent years.

So two polite things: one - if you take one sentence from a post thereby removing context of course it's confusing. The post tells you why I suggested the weird hypothetical and I agree with you that it's weird.

Two - we need to be careful on assumptions of what sports betting is doing. Just because it's everywhere doesn't mean it's a main driver of net new growth. It only became legal in 2018 (in the US) and some sports leagues were enjoying exponential growth for decades before that.

If you ask me, the rise of sports gambling is great for league profitability and also for increasing existing fan engagement amongst people who bet.

I don't think it makes a statistically relevant number of non-fans into fans. That is, people with no current interest in CFL or NFL or NHL or whatever aren't suddenly becoming fans just because you can bet. They were on some level already fans, and betting may increase affinity/engagement of those people. But if you weren't a CFL fan now - being able to bet on a game probably isn't something you'll action. 

[theaardvark]

Maybe, the CFL needs to stop hiring ex-NFL players as commentators, and stick to ex-players that know and love the CFL, for all its quirks and curiosities, and know how to emphasize the uniqueness instead of critique the differences.

Critiquing the fact that the FG try went through the endzone and they still got a point should actually be a termination offence.  I'm sorry, but Luke has a decent pedigree as a football player, but I find nothing special about his sideline appearances, especially his sideline appearance.  I was shocked the first time I saw him, I thought he was in a hallowe'en costume from the 80's.  The pornstar 'stache, really?

I guess he's the result of ratio thinking in the TSN crew, he has the right passport, but sorry, not the right attitude.

I'd rather have a crew of Milt Stegall's and Matt Dunnigan's who are American but embrace the CFL rather than Luke Wilson, who is a Canadian, but clearly does not love the CFL, and finds it a poor shadow of the NFL that he played in. 

He made more in his short career than an entire CFL team, including coaches, makes in a year.  There's going to be a difference.