Fines and the 2025 Draft

[Blue In BC]

It gets divided up with the teams that weren't over the cap.

4 teams went over so that means about $175K to each of the other 5 teams. I don't doubt you are right about how they use this money.

It doesn't seem like the best use IMO. Maybe creating some sort of fund for health and welfare long past playing days. Figuring out who would get what or why wouldn't be easy.

At the moment this version to use the money just goes into the profit and loss of various teams. That means there is no impact to any players either current or past.

However we see some players post football, destitute with mental health issues etc. It's a little like the issue with the increased revenue of $400K for each team and determining what to do with that.

Pension fund ideas and health concerns beyond recovering from an injury and post football health would be something I would support more. Obviously profit and loss is import to the survival of the CFL. Overspending resulting in fines that result is not the best plan forward. Increase revenue through attendance and TV revenue streams.

How do we get younger people to attend live games at the stadium?

[Pete]

When a team overspends the salary cap by that much it potentially creates a competitive advantage over all other teams, which is why I don't agree with the awarding of both picks to just one team.
  In some circumstances it could lead to one team making the playoffs at the expense of another and costing them the playoff revenue, impacting the team and its players.
The picks could go into a lottery with lower ranking teams having better odds.
   As far as use of the fines rewarding the teams that are compliant isn't a bad thing, as really   the cfls punitive system isn't severe enough as it is. If the team has an opportunity to sign a high quality cdn for 2 the 3 years ie Ford  losing a first round pick isn't a big deal as most 1st round picks aren't even assured to be starters

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

When a team overspends the salary cap by that much it potentially creates a competitive advantage over all other teams, which is why I don't agree with the awarding of both picks to just one team.
  In some circumstances it could lead to one team making the playoffs at the expense of another and costing them the playoff revenue, impacting the team and its players.
The picks could go into a lottery with lower ranking teams having better odds.
   As far as use of the fines rewarding the teams that are compliant isn't a bad thing, as really   the cfls punitive system isn't severe enough as it is. If the team has an opportunity to sign a high quality cdn for 2 the 3 years ie Ford  losing a first round pick isn't a big deal as most 1st round picks aren't even assured to be starters

True, it's a bit of a game every GM has to play to support the draft, fairly rare a first round draft pick makes an impact in his first season and maybe a 50% they develop to their full potential at all.  If I was a GM I'd sure be tempted to avoid the risk and trade my draft picks for established players that have already proven themselves in the league. I guess that would be following the Brendan Taman model.

[TBURGESS]

BC took a huge risk and didn't get the reward. 20-20 hindsight says they should have kept Adams and not signed Rourke. 

[Blue In BC]

BC took a huge risk and didn't get the reward. 20-20 hindsight says they should have kept Adams and not signed Rourke.

Rourke is 5 years younger, a Canadian and has greater upside compared to Adams. It's a little early to say they made a mistake. I don't think they would have done any better in 2024 with Adams as the starter even if he stayed healthy.

Bombers beat the Lions with both starting in the last 2 regular season games to win the season series.

I will say a final judgment is still to be made but I can't fault how they made this decision.

Keep in mind the ratio advantage in gaining a QB that counts as a Canadian starter.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

BC took a huge risk and didn't get the reward. 20-20 hindsight says they should have kept Adams and not signed Rourke.

Way too early to determine that, Rourke could play for the Lions another 10 years become a fan favourite and bring them multiple GC, VA does not offer that potential.   

[TecnoGenius]

All teams just move up a spot.

Did they though?  The wording in the press releases makes it sound like BC's name just gets swapped out for CGY's name.

The new order is shown here:
https://www.cfl.ca/2025/03/28/bc-toronto-saskatchewan-ottawa-exceed-2024-salary-expenditure-cap/

It would appear CGY really did just take BC's 1RDP?  (There's only 8 teams listed in 1R because EDM forfeited theirs.)

But then CGY doesn't pick again until 17?  So they should have been #1 in 2R, but that #1 shifted up to 1R #8?  Or did CGY trade away their #1-2R to BC for VAJ?

I'd really really like to see a "before" list of the draft order, just before the BC adjustment was made, but taking into account previous trades and forfeits.

Again, the press wording is very bad on this matter.  Why can't anything in the CFL be spelled out properly?  Why doesn't someone make an FAQ that anticipates all the fan questions?

[TecnoGenius]

P.S. I originally posited BC was going to be over the cap (way back when they acquired Rourke & Betts) at $300-350k.  Mainly because that was pretty much what Rouke & Betts cost them and I knew they were already tight to the cap to field their very good team.

Over the following months I lowered it slightly, where I thought maybe they were over more like $250-$300.

Ya, so basically BC was over $350k, which is basically the highest estimate anyone made this whole time, and way worse than those who thought they'd be "slightly" over.

However, since BC exceeded the magic "1RDP Loss" tier, why didn't they just go hog wild?  I'm pretty sure beyond that point there is no further DP loss and no worse punishment other than paying real money in fines (which Doman doesn't care about).

Lastly, losing DPs is not a good deterrent (as the other threads discussed, drafting is at best a 50/50 proposition).  Real money fines are not a good deterrent.  The system is broken.  They just showed what a super-loaded owner can do if they want to cheat buy their way to success.  (The fact they failed does not mean it can't work with smarter people doing it; or work in year 2 of the overage.)

I propose that all fines also come with 2X the overages coming off the SMS in the following year.  So BC's SMS cap for 2025 should be ~$700k below what every other team gets.  That would be real punishment that really impacts the team and dissuades teams from cheating having overages.

[TBURGESS]

No Rourke = Not over the SMS by enough to lose picks. Also Adams was the better QB last year. It remains to be seen if Rourke works out in the future. 

[theaardvark]

P.S. I originally posited BC was going to be over the cap (way back when they acquired Rourke & Betts) at $300-350k.  Mainly because that was pretty much what Rouke & Betts cost them and I knew they were already tight to the cap to field their very good team.

Over the following months I lowered it slightly, where I thought maybe they were over more like $250-$300.

Ya, so basically BC was over $350k, which is basically the highest estimate anyone made this whole time, and way worse than those who thought they'd be "slightly" over.

However, since BC exceeded the magic "1RDP Loss" tier, why didn't they just go hog wild?  I'm pretty sure beyond that point there is no further DP loss and no worse punishment other than paying real money in fines (which Doman doesn't care about).

Lastly, losing DPs is not a good deterrent (as the other threads discussed, drafting is at best a 50/50 proposition).  Real money fines are not a good deterrent.  The system is broken.  They just showed what a super-loaded owner can do if they want to cheat buy their way to success.  (The fact they failed does not mean it can't work with smarter people doing it; or work in year 2 of the overage.)

I propose that all fines also come with 2X the overages coming off the SMS in the following year.  So BC's SMS cap for 2025 should be ~$700k below what every other team gets.  That would be real punishment that really impacts the team and dissuades teams from cheating having overages.

You can't drop the cap for one team over another.  For one, they have contract already signed for that year...

Financial and DP penalties are far more than enough.  BC got into a pickle not having cap space for returning NFL players. 

It cost them dearly to sign those guys, but they are both difference makers, and had they not signed them, someone else would have.  The fact is, though, both are Nat's that are starters, so it makes draft picks less of a concern.  So loss of cash, no issue, loss of DP's less of an issue.

For a GC year at home, the monetary penalty would be insignificant compared to the additional revenue they'd have made had they made the game.  It was a gamble, but Rourke had shown to be worth the gamble with his past performance.  The fact he stunk after getting a lot of bad 4 down habits is not BC's fault.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

P.S. I originally posited BC was going to be over the cap (way back when they acquired Rourke & Betts) at $300-350k.  Mainly because that was pretty much what Rouke & Betts cost them and I knew they were already tight to the cap to field their very good team.

Over the following months I lowered it slightly, where I thought maybe they were over more like $250-$300.

Ya, so basically BC was over $350k, which is basically the highest estimate anyone made this whole time, and way worse than those who thought they'd be "slightly" over.

However, since BC exceeded the magic "1RDP Loss" tier, why didn't they just go hog wild?  I'm pretty sure beyond that point there is no further DP loss and no worse punishment other than paying real money in fines (which Doman doesn't care about).

Lastly, losing DPs is not a good deterrent (as the other threads discussed, drafting is at best a 50/50 proposition).  Real money fines are not a good deterrent.  The system is broken.  They just showed what a super-loaded owner can do if they want to cheat buy their way to success.  (The fact they failed does not mean it can't work with smarter people doing it; or work in year 2 of the overage.)

I propose that all fines also come with 2X the overages coming off the SMS in the following year.  So BC's SMS cap for 2025 should be ~$700k below what every other team gets. That would be real punishment that really impacts the team and dissuades teams from cheating having overages.

I don't think the CFL should be going out of their way to punish franchises severely as that would directly reduce the quality of the product and fan approval at a critical time. Slap BC's wrist with a fine and take away a draft pick or two, if Doman persists crossing the line and loses more draft picks eventually a football person will explain the long-term damage he is inflicting on his club.

[TecnoGenius]

You can't drop the cap for one team over another.  For one, they have contract already signed for that year...

They can do whatever they want, just add it in to the next league-team contract, just like they once upon a time wrote in this loss-of-DP verbiage.

Financial and DP penalties are far more than enough.

[...]

The fact is, though, both are Nat's that are starters, so it makes draft picks less of a concern.  So loss of cash, no issue, loss of DP's less of an issue.

Uh, you contradict yourself 1 sentence later.  Clearly the $ and DP penalties were not enough, and you admit it.  The $ penalty means nothing to a privately-owned or cash-rich team.  Nothing.  The DPs may not hurt your team for a few seasons, if ever.

Doman could just give the league the finger and go over by $2M this year and outbid everyone's all-star NAT OL, etc, to basically make the draft meaningless.  What will it cost him?  Just extra $.  If you had Bill Gates or Elon Musk money, what's to stop you from doing this?

No, the only thing that can really hurt a team is direct loss of SMS.  Now, if they lose the SMS but ignore you and still go over by $2M (or $3M!) then clearly some other punishments will have to be thought up.

[TecnoGenius]

Slap BC's wrist with a fine and take away a draft pick or two, if Doman persists crossing the line and loses more draft picks eventually a football person will explain the long-term damage he is inflicting on his club.

Ooh, in some circles this is known as the "sternly worded letter".  Someone hellbent on ignoring the SMS will just laugh.  As Aards said, they have nothing else to worry about because it's not in their contract!

What if the person doing it doesn't care about the long-term damage?  The GM/Prez of SSK in 2013 didn't give 2 poops about the future beyond 2013.  They wanted that cup and to heck with the future team, and SSK then stunk for the next 5+ seasons.

Some people just won't care.  They want to win now at all costs and let someone else clean up the mess.

I think many are trying to minimize what actually just occurred.  BC wasn't a the fairly normal $20-$90k over.  They were like 4X-7X the normal overage!  It's actually quite insane and unprecedented what they just did.  And we're just to shrug it off?  Make up excuses?  "Well, they would have lost Rourke and/or Betts to another team."  Ya, so?  Like limitations every team in the league deals with every season?

And has BC shed any of its SMS for this season?  Sure, they ditched "one H", and maybe Chungh, but I don't see any major "SMS shedding" going on for a team that has, what, $800k+ tied up in Betts+Rourke??  From what I see, I see BC being the most over SMS yet again in 2025.

Oh ya, and we haven't even mentioned the Magic Marketing Money (3M, tm) cheating yet!  You talk about on-field product... ya so BC may get an improved product, but is the league-wide product improved if they are miles above everyone else due to cheating?