Extra Draft Selection

[ModAdmin]

BC Lions and Winnipeg Blue Bombers both awarded an extra second round selection in the 2025 Draft for having the most Canadian snaps in the 2024 season.

[Pigskin]

Nice. Winnipeg with 3 picks in the first 2 rounds. 7,16, and 18th. 

[Blue In BC]

How strong a draft class is this year's?   I wonder if we keep all our ranked choices or make some sort of trade as we did in 2024. 

I'd like to keep that 1st round pick this year, but hard to know what we'll do. An extra pick can't hurt. Aside from picking the best available I'm thinking OL and WR needs for our first two depth needs. Whether those available as our choices fit into those categories will be the discussions going forward.

Note the comment on the other sites that the expectation is that the Lions will forfeit their 1st round pick for being excessively over the cap and it will fall to the Stamps. That would give the Stamps 2 1st round picks.

[Waffler]

I don't like the rule. Why should one team benefit more than the rest? They didn't over spend to beat Calgary. They were looking to beat Winnipeg and it would have been us (Sask maybe too) that felt it the worst if the over spending had actually helped.  I much prefer the pick just disappeared. BC penalized and all other teams helped equally.

[Waffler]

If they actually lose the 2nd round pick also by being 300k over, where does that one go?

[Pigskin]

How strong a draft class is this year's?   I wonder if we keep all our ranked choices or make some sort of trade as we did in 2024. 

I'd like to keep that 1st round pick this year, but hard to know what we'll do. An extra pick can't hurt. Aside from picking the best available I'm thinking OL and WR needs for our first two depth needs. Whether those available as our choices fit into those categories will be the discussions going forward.

Note the comment on the other sites that the expectation is that the Lions will forfeit their 1st round pick for being excessively over the cap and it will fall to the Stamps. That would give the Stamps 2 1st round picks.

A lot of DL and WR, not that many highly rated OL.

[Blue In BC]

A lot of DL and WR, not that many highly rated OL.

I figured as much from the early rankings. We don't need another Canadian DL unless of course he's the best player available. OTOH, our receiver depth might be a bit shakier. Cobb might turn out to be very good depth / rotation. I'm not sure what to expect. Just thinking if we have 1 nicked Canadian starter then he's starting as in game injury if he's on the AR.

I guess the same is somewhat true for depth at DB. We did pick up a couple of Canadians there but health and ability might be a concern. Hallett is not getting any younger and fallen off the depth chart as a potential starter. We'll see if Kelly fights to win a starting role but I'm thinking Griffin is pencilled in at the moment.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

This rule works out for us but it doesn't make a lot of logical sense. Let's give more draft picks to teams that already have great Canadian content? It's not like all teams wouldn't want to dress 8 or 9 guys if they can play.

[DM83]

Well as usual lousy info available. Who are the top guys?.  The CFL ?......not exactly a hotbed of interest. Sorry boys, just not savvy enough to dig for info. My stupidity at fault.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I figured as much from the early rankings. We don't need another Canadian DL unless of course he's the best player available. OTOH, our receiver depth might be a bit shakier. Cobb might turn out to be very good depth / rotation. I'm not sure what to expect. Just thinking if we have 1 nicked Canadian starter then he's starting as in game injury if he's on the AR.

I guess the same is somewhat true for depth at DB. We did pick up a couple of Canadians there but health and ability might be a concern. Hallett is not getting any younger and fallen off the depth chart as a potential starter. We'll see if Kelly fights to win a starting role but I'm thinking Griffin is pencilled in at the moment.

I think Cobb's main role will be backing up returner, how he does filling in at receiver is a mystery.  Have to see if he has good enough hands to become a future starter.

[Blue In BC]

I think Cobb's main role will be backing up returner, how he does filling in at receiver is a mystery.  Have to see if he has good enough hands to become a future starter.

There always other players that can sub in as a returner. Mitchell might be used at times and or in emergency situations. He did that in Edmonton.

If Cobb can't show something as a receiver, his days will be numbered. I don't expect to see him on coverage teams. I don't expect him to become a starter but do expect him to be useful in rotation and for in game injury situations. He has to be more than a pylon so to speak.

Either way, I think we draft a receiver that will be more of a longer plan and that could even bump him off being the immediate back up?

[Blue In BC]

Well as usual lousy info available. Who are the top guys?.  The CFL ?......not exactly a hotbed of interest. Sorry boys, just not savvy enough to dig for info. My stupidity at fault.

It will change with players going up or down after combines etc. But here is the 1st bit of info.  Click on the " read more " after you open the link. It's half way down in the article.

https://gogriz.com/news/2025/1/22/football-white-and-harris-named-among-top-20-cfl-draft-prospects

[TecnoGenius]

I don't like the rule. Why should one team benefit more than the rest? They didn't over spend to beat Calgary. They were looking to beat Winnipeg and it would have been us (Sask maybe too) that felt it the worst if the over spending had actually helped.  I much prefer the pick just disappeared. BC penalized and all other teams helped equally.

Haha, I like your logic!  But hard to enforce that because how do you determine "who they were out to beat"?  You could argue then that it really was TOR (who they'd face in the GC).

I do wonder if CGY really does get an extra 1RDP?  How does that make any sense?  If BC went over and loses their 1RDP then it should just fall off the face of the earth and 2nd round starts at pick #9?

If that's not the way it works, then it's dumb.  Are you really telling me CGY would get like #1 (R1), #9 (R1) and then #10 (R2)?  Or are you saying the #9 really would be R2 and they don't get #10, but their normal #18 or whatever?

[TecnoGenius]

A lot of DL and WR, not that many highly rated OL.

If there's a paucity of good OL and we can't strike gold with an early 1RDP then a best-pick DL would still work if they are starter material.  No law that says we can't shift the ratio from OL to DL.

The key would be getting a guy that is as starting-ready as a top OL would be (i.e. starting in year 1 like Chungh, Gray).

[TecnoGenius]

This rule works out for us but it doesn't make a lot of logical sense. Let's give more draft picks to teams that already have great Canadian content? It's not like all teams wouldn't want to dress 8 or 9 guys if they can play.

I'm pretty sure the OP is worded badly.  It's not "the most NAT snaps", it's "the least number of FAKENAT (DNA) snaps".  That's not the same thing.

Otherwise they'd also be rewarding a team for being on O more (i.e. getting more snaps overall)!

I find it funny/ironic that almost-surely-250K-over BC is sneaking in this extra 2nd rounder to offset their insanity.

I'm pretty sure WPG/BC tied for this "award" by having 0 (zero) FAKENAT snaps.  I would really love to see the final tally of every team!  It would be useful to see what HCs are making heavy use of this "cheat code".

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I'm pretty sure the OP is worded badly.  It's not "the most NAT snaps", it's "the least number of FAKENAT (DNA) snaps".  That's not the same thing.

Otherwise they'd also be rewarding a team for being on O more (i.e. getting more snaps overall)!

I find it funny/ironic that almost-surely-250K-over BC is sneaking in this extra 2nd rounder to offset their insanity.

I'm pretty sure WPG/BC tied for this "award" by having 0 (zero) FAKENAT snaps.  I would really love to see the final tally of every team!  It would be useful to see what HCs are making heavy use of this "cheat code".

I have no idea what you're talking about. I think they're just counting Canadian snaps in aggregate.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

There always other players that can sub in as a returner. Mitchell might be used at times and or in emergency situations. He did that in Edmonton.

If Cobb can't show something as a receiver, his days will be numbered. I don't expect to see him on coverage teams. I don't expect him to become a starter but do expect him to be useful in rotation and for in game injury situations. He has to be more than a pylon so to speak.

Either way, I think we draft a receiver that will be more of a longer plan and that could even bump him off being the immediate back up?

Strangely enough I noticed Cobb last year playing for the Elks and my ears perked up when I heard he played at the U of M.  He may surprise a lot of people, he plays with a lot of energy and could become the next JFG.

[CrazyCanuck89]

How strong a draft class is this year's?   I wonder if we keep all our ranked choices or make some sort of trade as we did in 2024. 

I'd like to keep that 1st round pick this year, but hard to know what we'll do. An extra pick can't hurt. Aside from picking the best available I'm thinking OL and WR needs for our first two depth needs. Whether those available as our choices fit into those categories will be the discussions going forward.

Note the comment on the other sites that the expectation is that the Lions will forfeit their 1st round pick for being excessively over the cap and it will fall to the Stamps. That would give the Stamps 2 1st round picks.

I've heard it's a good defensive draft, especially on the Dline.

The defensive back group is highley underrated.

Don't forget the CFL draft is more than one round.  The Ti-Cats found two starters in the fourth round.

You guys snagged Kramdi and Tyrell Ford in the second.  Neufeld was a 5th round pick and look at the career he's had.

[Blue In BC]

I've heard it's a good defensive draft, especially on the Dline.

The defensive back group is highley underrated.

Don't forget the CFL draft is more than one round.  The Ti-Cats found two starters in the fourth round.

You guys snagged Kramdi and Tyrell Ford in the second.  Neufeld was a 5th round pick and look at the career he's had.

Sure. The draft is a bit of gamble trying to fill a need as well as looking for best available at the same time. We seem to have a few too many DL but if we can improve our depth then we should consider that. I don't know how those we have rank and what coaches feel is an upside. Just be sheer numbers, some of them won't make the roster.

[TecnoGenius]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I think they're just counting Canadian snaps in aggregate.

No.  The extra 2RDP is a "reward" for not making (much) use of the 2023 rule to allow 2 designated IMPs (1 on each side: O/D) to take up to 23 snaps a game (each).

Just giving rewards for most NATs each snap in aggregate is silly.  Every game has a different number of snaps, and different teams tend towards more or less snaps based on their style (like how aggressively they chew up clock like WFC does).

You don't remember all the copious thread space devoted to the FAKENAT (my term), aka DNA (designated national(ized?) american, the CFL's term) boondoggle topic?  '23 was filled with it.  No one seemed to care in '24, but the rule and "cheat code" is still there and some teams are making heavy use of it.

The best example of DNA use/abuse was in '23 (I think) Tim White was listed as a DI and DNA most games, even though he's clearly the superstar starter.  Then he took the spot of a NAT (Ternowski?) on 23 snaps (like > 50% of most games).  Thus "cheating" the ratio and normal DI substitution rules, thus (hopefully!) gaining HAM an "unfair" ratio advantage.

Surely you remember the game (wasn't against us though) where booth guys were saying they were getting notification White was going to have to come off for the rest of the game (or get subbed in for a normal IMP) because he reached his 23 snaps.  It was memorable because the game was on the line near the end and losing their "cheat code" at that moment really sucked for them.

I hope with Ambrosie disappearing that the whole FAKENAT thing is thrown in the garbage where it belongs.

[TecnoGenius]

Strangely enough I noticed Cobb last year playing for the Elks and my ears perked up when I heard he played at the U of M.  He may surprise a lot of people, he plays with a lot of energy and could become the next JFG.

You mean Woli! (or Demski!)

We really don't want the next JFG...

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

You mean Woli! (or Demski!)

We really don't want the next JFG...

Never thought of JFG as a bad player, he played pretty well as a 5th receiver and was shifty enough to fill in at punt returner occasionally.

[blue_or_die]

Never thought of JFG as a bad player, he played pretty well as a 5th receiver and was shifty enough to fill in at punt returner occasionally.

I agree. He wasn't a superstar but was never thought to be that. He came in and did what was asked of him and often did so impressively given he wasn't a prime target. Played basically like a Woli.

[TecnoGenius]

I agree. He wasn't a superstar but was never thought to be that. He came in and did what was asked of him and often did so impressively given he wasn't a prime target. Played basically like a Woli.

I'm not dissing JFG, but Woli provided way more production basically instantly, and could actually catch the deep routes.

JFG is what we think of when we think of most NAT WRs.  Woli is (was?) definitely above that level.

JFG was never a TD threat.  He was ignored in the red zone.  Woli was always a threat to score.

The fact we had 2 legit (and 1 superstar) NAT RECs is one of the reasons we won those 2 cups.  We didn't have any "dead spots" on the field that DBs could just ignore.

[blue_or_die]

I'm not dissing JFG, but Woli provided way more production basically instantly, and could actually catch the deep routes.

JFG is what we think of when we think of most NAT WRs.  Woli is (was?) definitely above that level.

JFG was never a TD threat.  He was ignored in the red zone.  Woli was always a threat to score.

The fact we had 2 legit (and 1 superstar) NAT RECs is one of the reasons we won those 2 cups.  We didn't have any "dead spots" on the field that DBs could just ignore.

Yeah sorry, I disagree. Woli could come up with clutch catches on occasion, including in the end-zone, but I wouldn't say he was "always a threat to score". I don't expect a drop off with Clercius.

I loved Woli and for sure get why he was a fan-favourite (myself included) but I think he was what he was. I feel this way about Bailey, too.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I'm not dissing JFG, but Woli provided way more production basically instantly, and could actually catch the deep routes.

JFG is what we think of when we think of most NAT WRs.  Woli is (was?) definitely above that level.

JFG was never a TD threat.  He was ignored in the red zone.  Woli was always a threat to score.

The fact we had 2 legit (and 1 superstar) NAT RECs is one of the reasons we won those 2 cups.  We didn't have any "dead spots" on the field that DBs could just ignore.

You're overplaying Woli's skill set a bit, he was a smart, tough, clutch receiver with reliable hands that read Zach well, but he was fairly slow so they didn't use him on deep routes often. You won't find any YAC video of him and most of his TD's were on broken plays or from DB's losing track of him.

[TecnoGenius]

Yeah sorry, I disagree. Woli could come up with clutch catches on occasion, including in the end-zone, but I wouldn't say he was "always a threat to score". I don't expect a drop off with Clercius.

Woli TDs:
2018 5
2019 4
2021 1
2022 1
2023 6
2024 1 (only played half the games)

JFG TDs:
2016 1
2017 3
2018 2 (only played half the games) (OTT)
2019 0 (only played half the games) (OTT)

In our big 2019 year Woli was a legit threat to score, as much as Demski (3 TD).  In '23 he tied Demski in TDs.  Only Schoen did better.

Yes, Woli wasn't Kenny, or even Demski.  But Woli has always been better than a JFG or guy like Ternowski, or the lesser Philpot brother.  The only NAT I've seen in a while better than Woli is McInnis (in the last 2 seasons), and maybe the greater (MTL) Philpot brother.

Remember, we're not comparing NATs to IMP superstars here: we're comparing NATs to NATs.  And usually teams hide at least 1 substandard NAT as WR in order to make the ratio.  Outside of FS, it's often the least costly (from a "screwups will cause us to lose" standpoint) way to get that final NAT spot.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Woli TDs:
2018 5
2019 4
2021 1
2022 1
2023 6
2024 1 (only played half the games)

JFG TDs:
2016 1
2017 3
2018 2 (only played half the games) (OTT)
2019 0 (only played half the games) (OTT)

In our big 2019 year Woli was a legit threat to score, as much as Demski (3 TD).  In '23 he tied Demski in TDs.  Only Schoen did better.

Yes, Woli wasn't Kenny, or even Demski.  But Woli has always been better than a JFG or guy like Ternowski, or the lesser Philpot brother.  The only NAT I've seen in a while better than Woli is McInnis (in the last 2 seasons), and maybe the greater (MTL) Philpot brother.

Remember, we're not comparing NATs to IMP superstars here: we're comparing NATs to NATs.  And usually teams hide at least 1 substandard NAT as WR in order to make the ratio.  Outside of FS, it's often the least costly (from a "screwups will cause us to lose" standpoint) way to get that final NAT spot.

This is a misreading of the data. First of all, even in your table it's pretty plain to see out of the last four seasons he's only had one where he has more than one TD on the season. Secondly, even if those numbers equal red zone target to you, he's only one because in no world are defenses giving him any added attention down there with all the actual red zone threats we had/have. Put it another way, there isn't a defensive coordinator anywhere scheming for Woli in the red zone. Other athletes can go and get lost in the coverage too. Put a yet another way, Wolitarsky isn't running Demski's corner route, Schoen's break ins or Lawler's jump ball flies and it's those routes and skillsets which enable a guy like Wolitarsky to be have a chance at success.

[Ridermania]

Gamble on QB Rourke with the extra pick.

[dd]

Gamble on QB Rourke with the extra pick.

I like that idea. No guarantee he sticks down south, so why not use your 'extra' pick on him. If he doesn't sign with us, do we retain his rights when he goes south for a number of years??

[kkc60]

Cool, hopefully we use it this year on a guy we have a plan for.

[TecnoGenius]

I like that idea. No guarantee he sticks down south, so why not use your 'extra' pick on him. If he doesn't sign with us, do we retain his rights when he goes south for a number of years??

Ya, but a) will he still be available at the end of the 2nd round, and b) will there be no other player still available that we have a better use for (and be more of a sure thing)?

The idea is intriguing though.  The timing would be very good if he's CFL-bound in '26.

[TecnoGenius]

Put a yet another way, Wolitarsky isn't running Demski's corner route, Schoen's break ins or Lawler's jump ball flies and it's those routes and skillsets which enable a guy like Wolitarsky to be have a chance at success.

But I'm not saying that.  I'm not saying Woli is all-star IMP level DBs and DCs freak out about.  I'm saying he's better than JFG, Watson, Ternowski, <insert other mediocre no-threat NAT here>.

And I disagree that the DBs can "not worry" about Woli in the red zone.  Who they didn't worry about in the GC was Clercius (and Wheatie on the IMP side), that's who.  If we had a healthy Woli on the field for that they'd have to respect him.  Again, not like they do Kenny or Demski, but much more than the "there for ratio" RECs.

There's like 3 tiers of NAT REC.  The ratio placeholder (most of them).  The uber-rare allstar-level (Demski, I guess McInnis, MTL Philpot), and then a somewhat thin middle ground.  I posit that Woli is in that middle ground, not in the placeholder category.

And back to the original point: we can't be sure Clercius will achieve that coveted middle-ground level.

[Pete]

what I don't understand is that  woli was  under contract and we released him. Why wouldn't we wait til training camp unfolds to do so? A lot can happen between now and the start of the season. The impact on the salary cap is minimal. If he was ineffective it would be different

[ModAdmin]

what I don't understand is that  woli was  under contract and we released him. Why wouldn't we wait til training camp unfolds to do so? A lot can happen between now and the start of the season. The impact on the salary cap is minimal. If he was ineffective it would be different

[theaardvark]

what I don't understand is that  woli was  under contract and we released him. Why wouldn't we wait til training camp unfolds to do so? A lot can happen between now and the start of the season. The impact on the salary cap is minimal. If he was ineffective it would be different

They released him before a $10k roster bonus.  And, I guess they'd made their decision on the direction for this year... only so many roster spots.

[Pete]

Saving 10k for a proven cfler, even as backup insurance seems shortsighted especially since Cobb and Gassama are currently the only options

[Blue In BC]

Saving 10k for a proven cfler, even as backup insurance seems shortsighted especially since Cobb and Gassama are currently the only options

Partially agree. OTOH IMO it was more a decision about the SMS issue. I'm not saying he was expensive but teams need to decide when to trim a player in favour of a younger, less expensive player with possibly more upside.

While Clercius is that player as far as a starter but our depth is slightly suspect.

I don't think we'd have been happier if we brought him to TC and then released him then. This way he had the chance to sign elsewhere and did so with a raise. The needs of another team may have exceeded our view of needs at the position. That's a debatable thought.

What I really wonder is whether we made any effort to trade him. I would have only expected a 3rd or 4th round pick in exchange but that's just a guess.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Saving 10k for a proven cfler, even as backup insurance seems shortsighted especially since Cobb and Gassama are currently the only options

Yah, hard to believe a $10k signing bonus was the main reason, maybe they thought it unfair to demote Woli to backup and released him prior to FA to give him a head-start.  That seems like weak reasoning because it's football, and Clercius could go down for the entire season in TC and Woli would start every game in that scenario. Careerwise Woli was not prone to injury anymore than Demski, so I don't think that is a valid argument either.

[TecnoGenius]

Saving 10k for a proven cfler, even as backup insurance seems shortsighted especially since Cobb and Gassama are currently the only options

KW often acts as a bean counter, and he seems pretty strict with his decisions and offers.  I think that's a good thing, in general.  While us armchair GMs spend SMS like drunken sailors, KW has to deal in the real world.

I can totally seeing KW seeing $10k as important enough to "care about".  That's $10k more he can offer a more-wanted $95k player to entice him to sign.

Remember, KW was going to let Brady walk over money until WM pulled rank.

It's a tricky balancing act, and I think KW's results speak for themselves.  I'm fine with his process.

(I also agree the choice had already been made about Woli because of IR-edness, and we actually did him a solid letting him go early enough he could shop other teams.)

[Pete]

KW often acts as a bean counter, and he seems pretty strict with his decisions and offers.  I think that's a good thing, in general.  While us armchair GMs spend SMS like drunken sailors, KW has to deal in the real world.

I can totally seeing KW seeing $10k as important enough to "care about".  That's $10k more he can offer a more-wanted $95k player to entice him to sign.

Remember, KW was going to let Brady walk over money until WM pulled rank.

It's a tricky balancing act, and I think KW's results speak for themselves.  I'm fine with his process.

(I also agree the choice had already been made about Woli because of IR-edness, and we actually did him a solid letting him go early enough he could shop other teams.)

maybe so, I'd have been more ok with it if we had another adequate cdn receiver as a back up. If we needed to replace Demski or Clercius due to injury I don't see Cobb as a strong alternative. Likely in the draft we go to oline or dline with first pick and not sure what receivers will be available at the end of 2nd round.

[Jesse]

I don't think the Woli decision was SMS related at all. The expense was not significant enough to outweigh the respect that Woli carries in the room.

This was a conscious decision to move forward with a younger player and letting a veteran go ahead of Free Agency to maximize their options.

[TecnoGenius]

I think everyone's right.  It's all of these things.  Otherwise it makes no sense.

- They feel Clercius is ready to be Woli-level (or better!)
- They feel Woli is an injury liability (they do have info we don't!)
- They feel Woli may be at the twilight of his career
- They feel they have (or will have) adquate NAT REC back up
- They want to save the $10k bonus
- They want to save the ~$30k or so between Woli & Clercius salary

It's everything.  But clearly it's not a "fan friendly" (or Strev friendly!) move.  We (mostly) all like Woli and many would disagree with at least some of the above.  Almost all of us would have chosen to retain him, even just as a back up!

In KW we trust.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

maybe so, I'd have been more ok with it if we had another adequate cdn receiver as a back up. If we needed to replace Demski or Clercius due to injury I don't see Cobb as a strong alternative. Likely in the draft we go to oline or dline with first pick and not sure what receivers will be available at the end of 2nd round.

Their depth at Natl. receiver looks weak and it's pretty unlikely they'd find a draft pick that could contribute in his first year. They kept Jeremy Murphy around for 2 seasons and never threw a single pass to him, which is both unfair and crazy IMO. "Thanks for coming out kid!" Even Demski struggled to establish himself as a receiver his first 2 years in Sask, but I guess a Philpott, McInnes and a few other Natl. receivers have made the leap.

Not sure what they're expecting out of Cobb but backing up Demski and Clercius would be a big ask. I'd be surprised if ex-Bison Gassama served any function for them other than as gesture to the UofM and MB football but maybe he hangs around on the PR.

[TecnoGenius]

Even Demski struggled to establish himself as a receiver his first 2 years in Sask, but I guess a Philpott, McInnes and a few other Natl. receivers have made the leap.

Demski & McInnis were very slow builders and without hindsight SSK appeared to make the right choice moving on.  Goes to show, I guess.

But Philpot The Greater (MTL) was basically top notch from day 1.  That's the type of NAT REC you want to draft!

I love how Greenie fans complain to this day about all the great players they let walk out the door, from the 2 REC above to Neufeld to Yoshi.  Every team lets some slip through the cracks, but SSK has a knack for losing middling players to FA that end up being superstars!  Long may they keep up that track record!