Blue Bombers re-sign two-time All-CFL receiver Dalton Schoen

[Sir Blue and Gold]

This is absolutely not a "steal" and I'm surprised so many of you think it is.

It's a fair set-up for a guy coming off an ACL who hasn't played since June.

It sounds like he can still top out on the high side with the bonuses and if he does so it remains a highly expensive contract for high production. Good but expected for the price.

If he doesn't come back the same or is on the shelf early and often then it's survivable from the sense that $175,000 isn't outrageous money from the get go but will still cost us something else.

[Jesse]

"Significant" bonuses... $175 is a good price, but how significant are the bonuses?  If he plays well and doesn't get hurt, what's the top end?  $225k?  $250k?

Bonuses are hard to budget...

The trade off this year is that you don't need to budget for them. You budget for 175 and if a guy like Schoen hits his bonuses, you happily pay the fine at the end of the year.

[J5V]

No worries, watch this interview, Dalton is a great kid.

Thanks Bannatyne. Good watch. Yeah, I quite like him, he's very personable.

Regarding negotiations, he came right out with it and said this is a one-year league, and he seems to accept  that's how most contracts for players like him are structured. Very wise, mature attitude for a young guy. I can see why Bomber management like him.

[TecnoGenius]

"Significant" bonuses... $175 is a good price, but how significant are the bonuses?  If he plays well and doesn't get hurt, what's the top end?  $225k?  $250k?

I would think $50k is the max for incentives for Schoen.  Traditionally the CFL incentives are jokes.  Like a few extra thou in the player's pocket for not-so-easy-to-reach goals.

I bet it's like $20k in incentives in reality for Schoen.  Maybe even less.

I'd love to see many more contracts move to more $ for achievable incentives instead of the upfront bonus structure many of the top stars have.  Incentives are 100% SMS protected if the player gets a season-ender.

[TecnoGenius]

This is absolutely not a "steal" and I'm surprised so many of you think it is.

It is absolutely a steal when I think Schoen got $225 last season to be injured the whole time!  And with Gino getting a zillion and Kenny on a huge contract too, getting a previously-leaugue-leading WR for $175 is a coup.

So many thought we'd lose him.  And so many thought his payday would be much bigger.

[BlueFire]

All depends on if he got any signing bonus.  If we were smart, we told him how we can't get screwed out of the huge signing bonus like last year.  I really hope he got $0 bonus.

Then it really doesn't matter if he gets injured, from an SMS standpoint.  If he gets another season-ender we recapture all of the SMS on the 6GIR.

I think the best way forward for most players/positions is to give them $0 bonus, and high incentives.  That's the only way we protect ourselves from a SMS standpoint.

We We We ? LOL

[theaardvark]

There will be play time and performance bonuses, and I'd bet if he maxes them both, he should be getting $250k.

I'd bet its $3k/game playtime bonus and $10k 1000yds, $10k CFL All Star (not just western, maybe $5k for western).

That's $75k in bonuses, and worth every penny if he accomplishes those.

[Blue In BC]

I would think $50k is the max for incentives for Schoen.  Traditionally the CFL incentives are jokes.  Like a few extra thou in the player's pocket for not-so-easy-to-reach goals.

I bet it's like $20k in incentives in reality for Schoen.  Maybe even less.

I'd love to see many more contracts move to more $ for achievable incentives instead of the upfront bonus structure many of the top stars have.  Incentives are 100% SMS protected if the player gets a season-ender.

The early money has a tax advantage for American players. That has the net impact of reducing the total salary. There have been extensive discussions about the pros and cons of this idea.

I argued that the advance money should still be calculated against a per game salary. Others argued that every team understands the risk.

As the current situation exists I would support NOT using the big signing bonus money as part of any contract.

Changing to significant game and performance bonus money is also a risk of not knowing where the figure lands. That's not good business planning in a SMS environment.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

The early money has a tax advantage for American players. That has the net impact of reducing the total salary. There have been extensive discussions about the pros and cons of this idea.

I argued that the advance money should still be calculated against a per game salary. Others argued that every team understands the risk.

As the current situation exists I would support NOT using the big singing bonus money as part of any contract.

Changing to significant game and performance bonus money is also a risk of not knowing where the figure lands. That's not good business planning in a SMS environment.

Walters has said he doesn't like having a lot of players with bonuses for this very reason.

[Jesse]

There will be play time and performance bonuses, and I'd bet if he maxes them both, he should be getting $250k.

I'd bet its $3k/game playtime bonus and $10k 1000yds, $10k CFL All Star (not just western, maybe $5k for western).

That's $75k in bonuses, and worth every penny if he accomplishes those.

I agree with Techno, doubt it's anywhere near that much.

[theaardvark]

The early money has a tax advantage for American players. That has the net impact of reducing the total salary. There have been extensive discussions about the pros and cons of this idea.

I argued that the advance money should still be calculated against a per game salary. Others argued that every team understands the risk.

As the current situation exists I would support NOT using the big signing bonus money as part of any contract.

Changing to significant game and performance bonus money is also a risk of not knowing where the figure lands. That's not good business planning in a SMS environment.

No mention whether the $175k included signing bonuses, just that it is hard money, which can mean 100% game cheques.  Or a big signing/roster bonus.

Not sure Schoen's primary residence, and if there is a tax benefit for bonus money (like FL, NV or TX IIRC).  But I don't think Walters is giving up too much up front bonus money this year.

[theaardvark]

I agree with Techno, doubt it's anywhere near that much.

1000 yd+ All Star Schoen who plays 18 games is worth every penny of $250k, and he's worth $175k to have the opportunity for him to get 1000 yds in 18 games...

[Sir Blue and Gold]

1000 yd+ All Star Schoen who plays 18 games is worth every penny of $250k, and he's worth $175k to have the opportunity for him to get 1000 yds in 18 games...

$250,000 for 1000 yards is not "worth every penny". Ontaria Wilson had 1026 yards last year on an ELC. That is a contract worth fawning over. Hypothetically, if Schoen does it at $250,000 that's basically the bare floor and would put him as the 12th receiver by yardage using last year's stats. Demski had just over 1000 at $225,000 as a Canadian. There's some Blue tinted math going on here that's for sure. Hopefully Schoen works out but we're paying for it that's for certain.

[theaardvark]

$250,000 for 1000 yards is not "worth every penny". Ontaria Wilson had 1026 yards last year on an ELC. That is a contract worth fawning over. Hypothetically, if Schoen does it at $250,000 that's basically the bare floor and would put him as the 12th receiver by yardage using last year's stats. Demski had just over 1000 at $225,000 as a Canadian. There's some Blue tinted math going on here that's for sure. Hopefully Schoen works out but we're paying for it that's for certain.

Bringing in a rookie to compare.. right.  Schoen gave us huge years at ELC.  ut you can't compare those contracts to todays.

Most teams have 1 1000yd receiver.  And most teams pay their best Vet rec in the range of $250k.

If he plays 18 games, he's going to get more than 1000 yds, and if he gets league all star, that means he is *worth every penny* of $250k. 

There is a difference between optimizing an ELC player's years, and signing proven vet receivers.

Demski was a deal, worth every penny of $225k having had an couple exceptional years.  He was a perennial 600 yd guy, who missed a fair number of games, but has been healthy and productive the last two.  Not diss'ing Demski at all, I love having him on the team.  He is a great part of the Rec corps, but never the #1 guy. 

Schoen is proven to be a potential #1 guy every year.  What I'm saying is *IF* he has performance/play bonuses that take him to $250k, I'm hoping he earns every one.  It would be worth every penny (even though w don't have pennies anymore.)

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Bringing in a rookie to compare.. right.  Schoen gave us huge years at ELC.  ut you can't compare those contracts to todays.

Most teams have 1 1000yd receiver.  And most teams pay their best Vet rec in the range of $250k.

If he plays 18 games, he's going to get more than 1000 yds, and if he gets league all star, that means he is *worth every penny* of $250k. 

There is a difference between optimizing an ELC player's years, and signing proven vet receivers.

Demski was a deal, worth every penny of $225k having had an couple exceptional years.  He was a perennial 600 yd guy, who missed a fair number of games, but has been healthy and productive the last two.  Not diss'ing Demski at all, I love having him on the team.  He is a great part of the Rec corps, but never the #1 guy. 

Schoen is proven to be a potential #1 guy every year.  What I'm saying is *IF* he has performance/play bonuses that take him to $250k, I'm hoping he earns every one.  It would be worth every penny (even though w don't have pennies anymore.)

Sure. I get it. Just you know though, 1000 yards in 2024 would put Schoen:

3rd in receiving in Hamilton (behind White and Dunbar Jr.)
3rd in receiving in Ottawa (behind Hardy and Rhymes)
3rd in receiving in Winnipeg (behind Wilson and Demski)
2nd in receiving in BC (behind McInnis)
2nd in receiving in Calgary (behind Begalton)
2nd in receiving in Edmonton (behind Lewis)
2nd in receiving in Regina (behind Emilus)
2nd in receiving in Toronto (behind Polk)

Receiving yards don't tell the whole story so I should also point that out but this contract is not a steal and wouldn't have even been one last year when all the receivers probably made quite a bit more collectively.  It's more or less fair value with a big dose of risk in regards to an ACL and a player who has been pretty banged up even when he was playing weekly.