Willie Jefferson

[Austin85]

Do you think Willie will re-sign?

[Blue In BC]

Do you think Willie will re-sign?

Yes.

[Jesse]

That's as guaranteed as Bryant was.

[blue_gold_84]

Only a matter of time.

[theaardvark]

No, I think he'd rather re-sign, he's here, he's not going anywhere.  Unless he can't pass a physical, Walters will re-up him. 

Now, should he fail teh physical, bet on Pinball floating him an offer... (chuckle)

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I don't know, Willy usually re-signs pretty early, he may leave it to F.A. so he can force the Bombers to pay him in the ballpark of his perceived value.  No joking the Bombers can't afford to lose Willie, he's become a face of the franchise.

[TecnoGenius]

For some reason I thought he was on a 2-year and still under contract... Oh well, I agree he'll re-sign pretty much guaranteed.  Any doubts about his abilities were put to rest in the GC.  He was one of the few actually getting stuff done and trying to win it even when it was going south.

He's old enough now and goes pretty "easy" in many reg season games that I don't think there's a huge market for him at astronomical prices.  I'd try to get him at the last price with no inflation bump.  From previous years and stories I think he knows about leaving some money for KW to hire the rest of the team.

I agree he's kind of our franchise D guy now.  It would be bad for optics and morale to let him walk over $10k (cough cough Grant).

[Pete]

I don't know, Willy usually re-signs pretty early, he may leave it to F.A. so he can force the Bombers to pay him in the ballpark of his perceived value.  No joking the Bombers can't afford to lose Willie, he's become a face of the franchise.

,I guess there is a possibility that he wasn't enthralled on how hes been utilized in Youngers defense. Has to be tough with all the emphasis on rushing just 3 ,getting double and triple teamed consistantly.Also hurts his stats

[Blueforlife]

Come down to Winnipeg one last time

Pay the man

[Horseman]

It would be bad for optics and morale to let him walk over $10k (cough cough Grant).

It was over $80,000 not 10.

[TecnoGenius]

It was over $80,000 not 10.

My point was we lost Grant to another team over negligible money (of course the problem wasn't money, it was communications).  (Also, in the end Grant took less money in TOR than we were going to pay him!)

Also my point: you don't want to lose Willie because some other team offered him $10k more.

[TecnoGenius]

,I guess there is a possibility that he wasn't enthralled on how hes been utilized in Youngers defense. Has to be tough with all the emphasis on rushing just 3 ,getting double and triple teamed consistantly.Also hurts his stats

Haha, if I was cynical (who, me?) I could start thinking it all was a grand ploy by KW+MOS+Younger to keep Willie and keep his price down!  Haha.

In reality, if you want to talk GC puzzle pieces, besides our completely crap O performance, the main problem was minimal pressure on a 3rd tier QB.  So if anything KW/Younger put the big spend in FA on another superstar DE or a Stove-level DT.

If we do that, it should mean big stats for Willie in '25.  Dude deserves to have a shot at being MVP in our home GC.  I think he can do it.  (And before I get some weird cosmic joke played on me, I will specify: playing as a Bomber!)

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

My point was we lost Grant to another team over negligible money (of course the problem wasn't money, it was communications).  (Also, in the end Grant took less money in TOR than we were going to pay him!)

Also my point: you don't want to lose Willie because some other team offered him $10k more.

Good point, in almost every case were they've lost a veteran in the last few years the player has commented later that they felt a sense of disrespect for their contribution after providing the Bombers with many years of solid service in the prime of their careers. 

A lack of communication through the off-season leading up to F.A. is the worst possible strategy, even if they don't know how much money they have to spend the team needs to  keep the channels of communication flowing so that valuable players like Willy, don't feel they're being ghosted. 

A player personnel job comes down to having the right personality in place to handle the good and the bad news, it's easy to see Ted Goveia had those qualities in their natural state, even if it wasn't his main role with the team, the man can talk. Just as easy to see from his podcasts Darren Cameron lacks the same communication skills, he can hand out the good news which is the easy part of the job, but not the bad.  As the goose once said to the gander, "you've done okay, but I think we can do much better".

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I'm sure he'll sign. That said I'm not sure what he's worth in our defense as we currently deploy it.

He had some good games but he was also pretty non existent at times. He definitely takes plays off and goes into preservation mode more and more.

However, it's slim pickings at DE in the CFL these days. NFL defenses are taking smaller and smaller rushers which were bread and butter CFL rush ends.

I'm not really sure where we go from here at DE, to be honest.

[Bomber Diehard]

I agree he has been non existent in several games.
He sure is not the player he used to be.

[TecnoGenius]

I agree he has been non existent in several games.
He sure is not the player he used to be.

Until you see the GC...

I really am ok with a "puts on the jets when it really counts" DE -- when his jets are so powerful.  Besides, we knew for years Willie was badly hampered without another stud on the other side.  So, get another stud on the DL.  Puzzle pieces.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Until you see the GC...

I really am ok with a "puts on the jets when it really counts" DE -- when his jets are so powerful.  Besides, we knew for years Willie was badly hampered without another stud on the other side.  So, get another stud on the DL.  Puzzle pieces.

I fully expect him to sign so this is kinda irrelevant but a couple observations:

One -- who is this stud DL? Where does he come from, free agency?

Two -- even if we were successful in getting a "stud defensive end" to play opposite him he's still going to need to beat double teams in a three man front for half the game.

Three - he's got more in the tank, for sure, but it seems pretty clear his days of being a game wrecker week in and week out are over. What is that worth then, again, not totally sure.

[TecnoGenius]

One -- who is this stud DL? Where does he come from, free agency?

KW's problem.  Other GMs get 2 or 3 or 4 stud DL.  Surely we can find a measly extra 1.  Scouting, FA, dev guys... who knows.  Just git er dun!

Two -- even if we were successful in getting a "stud defensive end" to play opposite him he's still going to need to beat double teams in a three man front for half the game.

No he won't, because as soon as we have a 2021-type DL again Younger won't be forced to go 3-man.  (He doesn't go 3-man because he's dumb, he does it because that was the best use of his lower-end DL.)

Get a Stove-esque and/or Jeffcoat-esque stud (preferably both) and we're instantly back to 2019-2021 pressure packages.

[Blue In BC]

KW's problem.  Other GMs get 2 or 3 or 4 stud DL.  Surely we can find a measly extra 1.  Scouting, FA, dev guys... who knows.  Just git er dun!

No he won't, because as soon as we have a 2021-type DL again Younger won't be forced to go 3-man.  (He doesn't go 3-man because he's dumb, he does it because that was the best use of his lower-end DL.)

Get a Stove-esque and/or Jeffcoat-esque stud (preferably both) and we're instantly back to 2019-2021 pressure packages.

Nearly all of our DL players are potential free agents. Various injuries to some of them may have restricted development. It's difficult to know what the organization thinks about their upside: Fox, Garbutt, Haba, Jefferson and Thomas are on the potential free agent list.

I can't see outside competition to these players in free agency. OTOH, I don't really know which the team wants back.

In theory re-signing them shouldn't be difficult and letting them challenge for spots on the roster based on TC 2025.  Whether we choose / or can acquire replacements in free agency is unknown. There will be some good ones to choose from, but it could be expensive.

[theaardvark]

Good point, in almost every case were they've lost a veteran in the last few years the player has commented later that they felt a sense of disrespect for their contribution after providing the Bombers with many years of solid service in the prime of their careers. 

A lack of communication through the off-season leading up to F.A. is the worst possible strategy, even if they don't know how much money they have to spend the team needs to  keep the channels of communication flowing so that valuable players like Willy, don't feel they're being ghosted. 

A player personnel job comes down to having the right personality in place to handle the good and the bad news, it's easy to see Ted Goveia had those qualities in their natural state, even if it wasn't his main role with the team, the man can talk. Just as easy to see from his podcasts Darren Cameron lacks the same communication skills, he can hand out the good news which is the easy part of the job, but not the bad.  As the goose once said to the gander, "you've done okay, but I think we can do much better".

No player should ever be paid out of the $SMS for what they've brought in the past.  They have to be performing at the level they are paid on their contract.

Sure, the likes of Harris or Jeffcoat gave us years of service, and were paid handsomely for those services. But at the tail end of careers, there is no $SMS space to pay players who may not contribute.  Harris did not agree to a physical, and ended up in Toronto making lots more than we offered, but probably was worth just about our offer from a performance standpoint.  Jeffcoat, well, love the guy, but you can't pay a guy to sit in the tub, especially if most of those missed games aren't one the 6 game IR. 

[theaardvark]

KW's problem.  Other GMs get 2 or 3 or 4 stud DL.  Surely we can find a measly extra 1.  Scouting, FA, dev guys... who knows.  Just git er dun!

No he won't, because as soon as we have a 2021-type DL again Younger won't be forced to go 3-man.  (He doesn't go 3-man because he's dumb, he does it because that was the best use of his lower-end DL.)

Get a Stove-esque and/or Jeffcoat-esque stud (preferably both) and we're instantly back to 2019-2021 pressure packages.

Where do other teams get stud DL from?  They overpay guys like Stove, Nevis, Sayles to pru them away... and we find the next one. 

Scooping a stud DL doesn't always work, and sure, you don't always hit it out of the park in recruiting.  But I'd rather whiff on an ELC DL than a $200k+ FA.

[blue_gold_84]

Jeffcoat, well, love the guy, but you can't pay a guy to sit in the tub, especially if most of those missed games aren't one the 6 game IR.

He contributed more to the team's success than not, even with his injury troubles. And FWIW, the 2023 season was the healthiest* since his rookie season in 2017.

It's easy to dump on him after the fact but the D-line lost an asset in 2024 - which negatively impacted the front 7.

[TBURGESS]

Quite frankly, if I'm Jefferson, I sign with a team that makes use of my talents instead of just taking up 2 blockers most of the time. 

[theaardvark]

Quite frankly, if I'm Jefferson, I sign with a team that makes use of my talents instead of just taking up 2 blockers most of the time.

You think on some other team, the opponent won't use 2 blockers on him?

The WFC knows his talents and takes full advantage of them.  We cannot control how other teams play against him.  Rushing 3 means hh is likely double teamed by default.  Rushing 4, he can still be double teamed, especially if they are running Jumbo, or using a FB.  He's going to draw double teams regardless our D setup, he's Willie Freakin Jefferson, you gotta stop him from getting near teh QB with that wingspan.

Plus, his family is here, all the more reason to stay.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

You think on some other team, the opponent won't use 2 blockers on him?

It's a good point, Aardvark.

[theaardvark]

It's a good point, Aardvark.

Sorry, I didn't mean to exceed expectations... 

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Quite frankly, if I'm Jefferson, I sign with a team that makes use of my talents instead of just taking up 2 blockers most of the time.

That would be a sad way for Willie to go out, he has maybe 2-3 great years left before he physically declines, I don't think he tries to play forever like Bighill.

[dd]

You're right, Willie has only a couple of seasons left, so he's likely to sign only with a team that gives him a bonafide chance of winning a Grey Cup. Right now, I'd say that's us and Toronto and I can see Pinball backing the truck up for him like he did for Harris, and the Argos D would be just that much better than they already are.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

You're right, Willie has only a couple of seasons left, so he's likely to sign only with a team that gives him a bonafide chance of winning a Grey Cup. Right now, I'd say that's us and Toronto and I can see Pinball backing the truck up for him like he did for Harris, and the Argos D would be just that much better than they already are.

I don't think GC's are his focus at this point, more important is setting himself up in the community for life after football.  Don't know what that would be for Willy, as he doesn't seem to be the type that would want to get into coaching and I don't know what skills he has to offer a business.  Most won't just pay for a big personality.

[Jesse]

I don't think GC's are his focus at this point, more important is setting himself up in the community for life after football.  Don't know what that would be for Willy, as he doesn't seem to be the type that would want to get into coaching and I don't know what skills he has to offer a business.  Most won't just pay for a big personality.

GC's never have been the focal point for Willy (I'm sure he wants team success - but it doesn't enter the equation during off season negotiations). He has always been a guy who goes where he is valued. He knows how to be a fan favourite on every team he's a part of. He knows the business and takes advantage.

[dd]

What?? Grey Cups have never been his focus?? Really. Wow. I don't believe that for a second.

[TecnoGenius]

I don't think GC's are his focus at this point, more important is setting himself up in the community for life after football.  Don't know what that would be for Willy, as he doesn't seem to be the type that would want to get into coaching and I don't know what skills he has to offer a business.  Most won't just pay for a big personality.

Willie is smart and savvy, and I think is totally thinking about his situation after football.  He is on the downtrend age-wise, and is looking at 5 more years of playing in the absolute best case.

He's made a great name for himself in WPG, which is something he's purposefully cultivated.  He's indicated he wants to stay here, and he probably wants to retire here.  Why harm that with some last minute sloppiness/craziness like AH33 did?

I think Willie is playing the long game, and perhaps will accept no-raises or even age-related-salary-reductions so he can remain a good value proposition to WFC.  He is practically at Walby, AH33, and Bighill level for name recognition here.  You can put that to good use after football.

However, his GC performance makes a re-sign discount deal for the WFC tricky this off-season: he deserves a raise for that, not a reduction!

[bluengold204]

Willie is usually one of the first to re-sign.  Bit worry some that he hasn't done so yet.  His time here could be coming to an end.

[Blue In BC]

Willie is usually one of the first to re-sign.  Bit worry some that he hasn't done so yet.  His time here could be coming to an end.

True but our re-signing of players has been very slow so far.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

What?? Grey Cups have never been his focus?? Really. Wow. I don't believe that for a second.

What I meant is Willie is not going to make a jump to another team in pursuit of a quick GC ring, which could maybe justify him signing with the Argos, but no other teams with better odds of achieving the goal than with the Bombers.  He's neither young nor single, and he's invested too much "Willie equity" into Wpg. not to capitalize on it at this point.

[dd]

What I meant is Willie is not going to make a jump to another team in pursuit of a quick GC ring, which could maybe justify him signing with the Argos, but no other teams with better odds of achieving the goal than with the Bombers.  He's neither young nor single, and he's invested too much "Willie equity" into Wpg. not to capitalize on it at this point.

Gotcha. Agreed. I think Willie will re-sign with the Bombers and be the emotional leader to us winning the Grey Cup at home in 2025. The thing that's killing me is the slow start to re-signing our FA's, I thought we'd have more pieces in place by now.

[theaardvark]

How much of the non $SMS promotional money cap do you think they devote to Willie? I'd say quite a bit... and he's not as valueable to other teams for that... so there is that advantage for us.

[Blue In BC]

How much of the non $SMS promotional money cap do you think they devote to Willie? I'd say quite a bit... and he's not as valueable to other teams for that... so there is that advantage for us.

Actually I don't think it's that much. Oliveria and Collaros probably get a large amount of that cash.

[theaardvark]

Not many Bombers live here year round, you'd think the ones that do get most of that money...

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Actually I don't think it's that much. Oliveria and Collaros probably get a large amount of that cash.

I imagine they get paid promo money for every presser they do, Collaros would be top, Brady second, maybe Demski and Lawler next. A lot of players never step in front of the mike.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I imagine they get paid promo money for every presser they do, Collaros would be top, Brady second, maybe Demski and Lawler next. A lot of players never step in front of the mike.

They don't get paid for doing pre/post game interviews. It's required.

[blue_gold_84]

They don't get paid for doing pre/post game interviews. It's required.

Media relations are in the CBA if I'm not mistaken.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

They don't get paid for doing pre/post game interviews. It's required.

Maybe not on top of their salaries, but wouldn't payment for interviews be considered PR money, thus deducted from their SMS? Other than those interviews I've never heard of Zach doing any promotional work for the team.

[TBURGESS]

It's just another bucket of money teams can pay players. It's called promo, but it might as well be called bucket 2.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Maybe not on top of their salaries, but wouldn't payment for interviews be considered PR money, thus deducted from their SMS? Other than those interviews I've never heard of Zach doing any promotional work for the team.

Not pre and post game interviews with media. That's not PR money.

For example, Collaros did an autograph signing at the Bombers store in late September which was tied to a non-profit partner. That's sponsorship dollars/promotional work.