Zach's Finger Slice

[TecnoGenius]

This is a "next time learning moment.  The therapist needs to have a selection of gloves with various fingers removed for quick application.

You bet, absolutely.  Not having backup plans for "injured hand" is not a good look.  It's like that famous Staple-cleats story where one team was prepared like good boy scouts and the other team was floundering (and lost).

After that 1st INT Zach threw, they should have been moving to plan C, D & E, not sitting on plan B.

Similar to when Kramdi was injured no one had a clue how to properly run the D and get 12 guys on the field.  I hope MOS is giving all the unit coords/coaches and aides major heck this off-season.

[TecnoGenius]

That's more or less my point. His index finger being compromised negatively impacted his ability to throw, so I don't think modifying a glove would've helped.

It's really impossible to know without being Zach, or a pro QB, and trying out the various ideas.

I think the index finger (or thumb?) would be the final point of touch on the ball?  So ya, as long as that's covered, things will be off.  But maybe the other 4 digits being uncovered would have helped as well.

I hope Zach & the trainers/etc are working on figuring this stuff out in the off-season.  In the end it probably wouldn't have won us the cup, but you still want to do every single thing you can to gain advantage (or minimize disadvantage) in the big game!

[theaardvark]

How did you identify them specifically as receiver gloves?

There was mention of it post game.  Makes sense because none of out QB's wear gloves at all, and even if they did, you's neem aq larger glove to fit over the bandage, which might have been an additional issue if the other fingers were too big.. hence cutting off fingers/thumb making even more sense.

[dd]

Oooooor, you have a properly prepared #2 Qb sitting on the sideline , who can go in and run your offense competently in the event of injury!! How about that one!! Toronto's offense seemed to run just fine without their #1 Qb,  our state of affairs was such that we had no one to put in and our only option was to put in our injured Qb knowing full well he couldn't throw....not a good look for a so called elite team. THAT was our downfall, not not having a proper fitting glove so we can put our injured Qb back in the game. And its not like Streveller got injured the week before or anything, we had weeks and weeks to address this problem and didn't.

[TecnoGenius]

Oooooor, you have a properly prepared #2 Qb sitting on the sideline , who can go in and run your offense competently in the event of injury!!

MOS/Zach addressed this at length in both post-game and season-ender pressers.  I think they were trying to address is carefully so as to not through anyone under the bus.  MOS said Zach said he could do it and that was enough for him.  MOS says he'd do it again.

Zach said he thought he could do it, or at least worth a try, and he told the R's to be ready to come back to the ball as he wouldn't have as much air on it.

My opinion is after the first INT they should have brought in Wilson or Dolegala and gone for broke.  I probably give Wilson 1 series then throw in Dolegala.  Sometimes a brand new QB no one has any clue about can upset a D and make surprising things happen (see Kelly in '22 GC).

We'll never know.  (Keep in mind the 2nd INT was a tip so I can understand not blaming Zach for that and pulling him then, but the pull should have happened on the 1st INT which was untipped and a moderate underthrow, albeit with a great athletic play by the DB.)

[Waffler]

MOS said Zach said he could do it and that was enough for him.  MOS says he'd do it again.

...
My opinion is after the first INT they should have brought in Wilson or Dolegala and gone for broke.  I probably give Wilson 1 series then throw in Dolegala. 

"Argos head coach Ryan Dinwiddie said after the game the
moment he saw Collaros warming up, seeing how he could barely throw a
spiral, was the moment he knew his team was going to win.

I received different accounts from players, many of whom said it was
obvious their QB was hurting. That doesn't even account for
Collaros, who when he first got back to the huddle, told his teammates
that he couldn't fully trust his hand and warned his receivers they
would likely need to come back to the ball in case the pass was
underthrown." - Free Press

He was hurt. Dolegala was the logical move else why was he here for 2 months?

How many times do we have to play injured vets in the big game because THEY say they can do it? Coaches should not be swayed by sentiment or past results.

Do we win that game with someone other than Zack? It was a long shot and we'll never know but I still feel the smarter thing was to play the healthy guy and you at least give the team a chance.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

"Argos head coach Ryan Dinwiddie said after the game the
moment he saw Collaros warming up, seeing how he could barely throw a
spiral, was the moment he knew his team was going to win.

I received different accounts from players, many of whom said it was
obvious their QB was hurting. That doesn't even account for
Collaros, who when he first got back to the huddle, told his teammates
that he couldn't fully trust his hand and warned his receivers they
would likely need to come back to the ball in case the pass was
underthrown." - Free Press

He was hurt. Dolegala was the logical move else why was he here for 2 months?

How many times do we have to play injured vets in the big game because THEY say they can do it? Coaches should not be swayed by sentiment or past results.

Do we win that game with someone other than Zack? It was a long shot and we'll never know but I still feel the smarter thing was to play the healthy guy and you at least give the team a chance.

Agree, O'Shea has to develop a more detached view of the personnel under his command with the focus on doing what's best for the team and not worrying about who the individual is that accomplishes the task.  Treat them equally like nameless soldiers, if Zach is a leader of the team he should do all he can to help his replacement achieve the end goal of winning for the team. 

Dinwiddie already knows this, he'll play QB Jack Sprat or whoever if he knows it will give him a better chance of winning.  A HC needs to focus more on numbers, not names.

[theaardvark]

Do we win wt someone not wearing #8?  Maybe.

Do we win with #8 who can't grip the ball.  Doubtful.

Do we win throwing the ball with an injured QB instead of handing every down to BO20?  Unlikely.

Best chance to win?  A QB with any number on his back handing the rock to BO20.  Heck, put Doloegala in as FB to block for a direct snap to BO20, take all the WR off the field, and load up a mega heavy jumbo Oline / wedge with Thomas and Schmeckle in as well and bully ball down the field.

After INT #1, ZC8 should not have been allowed to throw another ball more than 10 yards, if that.

Hindsight, 20/20.  Learning experience we should have had after AB4 last year.  Yes, experienced vets at 90% are better than backups.  But you have to be sure they are 90% and not 60%... or less.

Buck's optomistic playcalling (which mirrored his own QB play) was the coffin nail, though.  I don't think Lapo makes that mistake, which is why we need him here.

[Jesse]

Do we win wt someone not wearing #8?  Maybe.

Do we win with #8 who can't grip the ball.  Doubtful.

Do we win throwing the ball with an injured QB instead of handing every down to BO20?  Unlikely.

Best chance to win?  A QB with any number on his back handing the rock to BO20.  Heck, put Doloegala in as FB to block for a direct snap to BO20, take all the WR off the field, and load up a mega heavy jumbo Oline / wedge with Thomas and Schmeckle in as well and bully ball down the field.

After INT #1, ZC8 should not have been allowed to throw another ball more than 10 yards, if that.

Hindsight, 20/20.  Learning experience we should have had after AB4 last year.  Yes, experienced vets at 90% are better than backups.  But you have to be sure they are 90% and not 60%... or less.

Buck's optomistic playcalling (which mirrored his own QB play) was the coffin nail, though.  I don't think Lapo makes that mistake, which is why we need him here.

I agree with the first part of your post. Hard for me to say hindsight is 20/20 when they can see Zach is unable to grip the ball on the sideline before they sent him in. Or that having Terry throw the ball 4 straight times in the endzone without giving Brady the ball once was a good idea.

I also don't think Lapo would have changed anything. This was a conversation between Mike and Zach.

Also, Lapo is staying on TV. We don't need to keep mentioning him.

[theaardvark]

I agree with the first part of your post. Hard for me to say hindsight is 20/20 when they can see Zach is unable to grip the ball on the sideline before they sent him in. Or that having Terry throw the ball 4 straight times in the endzone without giving Brady the ball once was a good idea.

I also don't think Lapo would have changed anything. This was a conversation between Mike and Zach.

Also, Lapo is staying on TV. We don't need to keep mentioning him.

Buck called the plays.  Lapo definitely would have used BO20.  I have no doubt about that.

[dd]

Isn't it ironic that the Argos beat us not only once, but twice in the last 2 times we played them in the Grey Cup with their backup Qb leading them to victory??!! First it was MBT getting hurt and we all thought we won the game when this unknown Kelly guy came in and beat us. And this year with Arbuckle.

I can't believe that our game plan didn't have a scenario in it dealing with what happens when our #1 Qb goes down, how does the play calling change. Heck I know my high school football team did. Our #2 Qb has to go in, we know he can run these set of plays no problem, and these other plays are out of the question. It's all scripted. You mean to tell me in this day and age of next man up, we didn't have this for Dolegala?? I highly doubt that was the case. I think it was a case of a coach blindly trusting his veteran player saying he can get the job done, and doesn't. We got burnt with Biggie last year and Demski and Collaros this year.

C'mon man, get serious out there. When your #1 Qb can't grip the ball , its time to go to Plan B!!!

Doing the same thing over and over again, only to lose not 1 but 2 cups, makes you mad, but watching another team employ a game plan custom tailored to their #2 Qb shows you a smart coach who know sentiment has no place in the game!!

[Cool Spot]

Buck called the plays.  Lapo definitely would have used BO20.  I have no doubt about that.

Even I would have used BO20, and I would have had no idea what I'm doing.

[dd]

And that's the thing that's most upsetting. When we couldn't throw the ball because our Qb was hurt, run the ball. Good teams will run the ball, even when everyone in the stadium knows their going to run it, and still run it down their throat. We didn't even try to run it, ***!!!

[TecnoGenius]

Aren't y'all paying attention to what MOS has said at length about "just run Brady" when Wilson is in?  (Or when Zach was hurt.)

Let's trust he knows what he is saying.

Here is the D scheme for Wilson's pass attempts:

down / in-box / close-LB-run-support
1st 6 +2
2nd 4 +1
1st 4 +4
2nd 5 +0

MOS is right.  TOR was loading the box and diverting resources to stopping the run on first.  And on 2nd they are still devoting a lot to run stop even though they are all 2nd&10 and thus passing downs.

Wilson was probably told to RPO: read the scheme and if stacked box, pass.  Or Buck was monitoring alignment and telling him what to do pre-snap.

Also keep in mind TOR has a great front-7 (or 8!) that was limiting Brady all night except for 2-ish good runs.

I bet if I run the same analysis on TOR after Zach's injury we'd find the same thing.  TOR went into "you'll have to pass to beat us" mode, which is the correct thing to do in both situations.

Also of note: Wilson threw a perfect corner fade to Wheatie that was 100% catchable and Wheatie whiffed badly.  Kind of inexcusable for a GC, but I digress.  That was the Demski-offside play.  It wouldn't have counted but it proves Wilson maybe had something to offer if Zach was pulled.  They get that catch and TOR has to take the penalty and we get 1 more EZ shot.  (Brady also whiffs on a sneak-out to the flat pass that would have been 5-8Y, or maybe house if he makes the 1 DB miss.)

Looking at the schemes, the only run play that had any chance of success was a Brady-to-the-edge outside run, or maybe one of the faked sweeps, on 2nd down.  First down up the gut would have given us 1-3 probably, so I'm fine with the EZ attempts.  Wilson's first pass was badly underthrown but he dialed it in immediately after.  Not bad for a basically never-thrown-live QB.

The flat was also pretty much wide open most plays for a TE sneak-out or slow-dev crosser.  Problem was TOR's heat was getting in pretty fast, so plays had to be quick.  It would have been a perfect time to have Eli get his first catch wide open in the flat... if only someone had an ounce of creativity!

The sequence just reminds me of how the RECs were badly letting both QBs down all game.  Just pathetic no-talent and no-concentration by nearly all involved (including the "big" names!).

[Pete]

the thing is every OC knows when you put in a backup rookie qb the defence is going to come at him hard and expect the run by Olivera. Wilson needed to be game planned for this situation.
  Play action to brady then like a quick pass to the flats, no way can he wait for a play to develope.
  All he was doing was the same plays as what would have been called for Zac. Domigala would have been a much better choice to read options. Even a rollout and run would have been better. Wilson never stood a chance