Re: Zach Collaros

[bwiser]

What do we do with Collaros. Is he the QB that lead this team to 10 out of eleven wins and was throwing darts against Saskatchewan Roughriders in the Western Final or his he what we have seen in the last three Grey Cups. I don't see O'Shea getting rid of him so I think we are going to see him back next season playing well in the regular season and hopefully we never see Grey Cup Collaros and he can put it together when it counts.

[VictorRomano]

Personally?  If I'm Walters I go all in on Tre Ford as the 1A, with the understanding that we aren't re-signing Zach after next season, and will be handing him the reins in 2026, and keep Wilson for SY.  Give Ford lots of playing time in the meantime, and a chance to learn our system under our (hopefully new) OC.

[TBURGESS]

First we pay him his $250K guaranteed money. Then we look for his successor in FA. 

My picks in order would be VAJ then Ford.

[Blue In BC]

First we pay him his $250K guaranteed money. Then we look for his successor in FA.

My picks in order would be VAJ then Ford.

Are you suggesting buying out Collaros and then trying to complete a trade for VAJ? Noting that VAJ is also due $500K+ in 2025 and buying out Collaros would be a heck of a hit to the SMS. We'd also have to give up assets in trade and can't really tell what that might cost us.

Would also note that VAJ is a hit or miss big play QB that threw 3 pics in the WSF. He was also 8 / 17 and 1 int when the Bombers beat the Lions 25-0.

He's younger and more athletic but IMO his football IQ is not that good.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Are you suggesting buying out Collaros and then trying to complete a trade for VAJ? Noting that VAJ is also due $500K+ in 2025 and buying out Collaros would be a heck of a hit to the SMS. We'd also have to give up assets in trade and can't really tell what that might cost us.

Would also note that VAJ is a hit or miss big play QB that threw 3 pics in the WSF. He was also 8 / 17 and 1 int when the Bombers beat the Lions 25-0.

He's younger and more athletic but IMO his football IQ is not that good.

He's emotionally unstable, I'd pass on VA.

[Jesse]

This is not a debate or discussion. Zach is the starter next year. Full stop.

[TBURGESS]

Are you suggesting buying out Collaros and then trying to complete a trade for VAJ? Noting that VAJ is also due $500K+ in 2025 and buying out Collaros would be a heck of a hit to the SMS. We'd also have to give up assets in trade and can't really tell what that might cost us.

Would also note that VAJ is a hit or miss big play QB that threw 3 pics in the WSF. He was also 8 / 17 and 1 int when the Bombers beat the Lions 25-0.

He's younger and more athletic but IMO his football IQ is not that good.

Collaros is owed $250K guaranteed money next year.

VAJ is the best available QB. He was a shoo-in for MOP until he got hurt. Behind our O line with Brady to put him in 2nd and medium & an OC that doesn't call 90% passes, his football IQ would magically go way up. He's also loved by his teammates, so he could help bring FA's in too.

As for money... Cut Stev, Biggie, & Alexander and go with cheaper replacements.

[Blue In BC]

Collaros is owed $250K guaranteed money next year.

VAJ is the best available QB. He was a shoo-in for MOP until he got hurt. Behind our O line with Brady to put him in 2nd and medium & an OC that doesn't call 90% passes, his football IQ would magically go way up. He's also loved by his teammates, so he could help bring FA's in too.

As for money... Cut Stev, Biggie, & Alexander and go with cheaper replacements.

I'd argue whether that is a wise action. Would also note that we have to find money for Ford and Holm in the new SMS. 4 of our starting OL are potential free agents so that's more SMS if we can retain them.

If Collaros was a free agent and VAJ could be acquired in free agency I might consider that as more viable. Eating $250K and trading assets not so much.

However, it's a fair position to suggest. IMO Collaros will be our starter in 2025 but I would like his SMS to be trimmed down to about $500K.

[Pigskin]

Yes, ZC8 will be starting for the Bombers next season, unless he asks for a trade.

But, Ford or Alexander would be my choice for his backup.

[Pigskin]

Collaros is owed $250K guaranteed money next year.

VAJ is the best available QB. He was a shoo-in for MOP until he got hurt. Behind our O line with Brady to put him in 2nd and medium & an OC that doesn't call 90% passes, his football IQ would magically go way up. He's also loved by his teammates, so he could help bring FA's in too.

As for money... Cut Stev, Biggie, & Alexander and go with cheaper replacements.

Strev. $125K, Biggie $165K, Alexander $??, I would also throw JT95 on that pile.

[dd]

I would like to see us get a young up and coming Qb to be our #2 next year with our sights set on him succeeding Collaros after 2025. Alexander and Ford come to mind. There's no doubt in my mind had we had Tre Ford as our #2, we'd be Grey Cup champs right now, as if the passing game struggles, as it did, his running ability would have carried us through to victory.

[blue_gold_84]

This is not a debate or discussion. Zach is the starter next year. Full stop.

Agreed. I can't see any situation where Collaros isn't QB1 for 2025.

That said, I hope the Mafia has a succession plan.

[dd]

I think the 2025 #2 Qb has got to be your succession plan for 2026, you bring in who you figure is going to be your starter post-Collaros in 2025 and get him going development wise in 2025 so in 2026 when ZC retires, he's ready to go. It's too bad we lost Dru Brown as he was the perfect replacement, just 2 years too soon. I see Alexander potentially being the next DB

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

2 QB's forgotten in the mix that have been injured this season and might be available are the Als Caleb Evans and RB's Tyrie Adams, both very athletic young QB's.  Question is if they have the brain power to read the field and produce.

[Blue In BC]

Strev. $125K, Biggie $165K, Alexander $??, I would also throw JT95 on that pile.

Yeah, they are on my potential list. Also: Parker, Augustine, Benson, Gauthier, Hallett, Hallett, K. Wilson and Dolegala. It depends on who we can re-sign of our potential free agents, or acquire in free agency.

We can't get rid of every veteran and several of these players add value. Roster size, ratio and SMS are all in play.

Before anyone goes nuts on my suggestions, just note these are all subject to a bunch of conditions. Most involve SMS and succession. I made an earlier comment about Bighill as a DI for the right price might work if he agrees to that role as an example.

We'll be watching the draft and see if we keep our 1st couple of picks and who we get as possible replacements.

[Blue In BC]

2 QB's forgotten in the mix that have been injured who might be available are the Als Caleb Evans and RB's Tyrie Adams, both very athletic young QB's.  Question is if they have the brain power to read the field and produce.

I wouldn't consider them if no other reason than injury history already. Bombers re-signed Barriere to a futures deal. We'll be looking for new candidates from NFL, USFL and tryout camps.

T. Wilson might be a great candidate but most of us have never seen him in practice to know.

[theaardvark]

2 QB's forgotten in the mix that have been injured who might be available are the Als Caleb Evans and RB's Tyrie Adams, both very athletic young QB's.  Question is if they have the brain power to read the field and produce.

No one forgot them... they just are no where near the level of the others mentioned.  Not even in the same conversation, which is why we were not discussing them.

[Blue In BC]

QB's get all the credit or all the blame. It's unfair but that's the way it goes. We'll never know how things might have gone if a bounce or two had gone our way.

In the WDF nearly everything went right. Same QB. Like any player some games are better than others but it is a team game.

Not having a back up QB that we had any confidence didn't help even before the injury.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I wouldn't consider them if no other reason than injury history already. Bombers re-signed Barriere to a futures deal. We'll be looking for new candidates from NFL, USFL and tryout camps.

T. Wilson might be a great candidate but most of us have never seen him in practice to know.

I think they re-signed Grainger, not Barriere.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

QB's get all the credit or all the blame. It's unfair but that's the way it goes. We'll never know how things might have gone if a bounce or two had gone our way.

In the WDF nearly everything went right. Same QB. Like any player some games are better than others but it is a team game.

Not having a back up QB that we had any confidence didn't help even before the injury.

It would have been interesting if Strev. was healthy, but I think they still would have come up short if he did nothing but run and handoff to Brady.

[Blue In BC]

I think they re-signed Grainger, not Barriere.

Sorry, you're correct. The thing is that some PR players or even new signings won't even make TC as others are found. Decisions will be made on some players on the AR whether they are potential free agents or not. We just have to wait and see how that plays out.

[tlf]

It would have been interesting if Strev. was healthy, but I think they still would have come up short if he did nothing but run and handoff to Brady.

Yes.  Our heir apparent needs to throw well.

[Pete]

First we pay him his $250K guaranteed money. Then we look for his successor in FA.

My picks in order would be VAJ then Ford.

in what universe does BC trade VA to us unless we way overpay. my guess is he ends up in hamilton.
the other issue is both ford and alexander are going to cost 200k min plus bonuses. with Collaris that means we have 800k ties up in qbs. We invested heavily this year in the O and where did that get us. And likely we need to invest more in the offensive line as the deterioration is obvious.
Our options this year look to be
1. we overspend the cap with the grey cup and not worry about the cap implications of signing the above
2. renegotiate Zac salary, give him 200k in marketing money to lower his cap hit
3. go with Zac and attempt to find our own Alexander thru scouting
4. hope that Streveler can discover a passing game, or hope Wilson can be another Dru Brown. (don't think I'd want to gamble the season on either of those choices)

[blue_gold_84]

Hoping Streveler can magically become a consistently reliable and/or adept passer seems foolhardy to me.

[Blue In BC]

in what universe does BC trade VA to us unless we way overpay. my guess is he ends up in hamilton.
the other issue is both ford and alexander are going to cost 200k min plus bonuses. with Collaris that means we have 800k ties up in qbs. We invested heavily this year in the O and where did that get us. And likely we need to invest more in the offensive line as the deterioration is obvious.
Our options this year look to be
1. we overspend the cap with the grey cup and not worry about the cap implications of signing the above
2. renegotiate Zac salary, give him 200k in marketing money to lower his cap hit
3. go with Zac and attempt to find our own Alexander thru scouting
4. hope that Streveler can discover a passing game, or hope Wilson can be another Dru Brown. (don't think I'd want to gamble the season on either of those choices)

Item 1. That's what we think the Lions did and where did that get them?
Item 2. Still trying to figure out the rules on that money and how it applies to the SMS. He already has $250K guaranteed.

[Stats Junkie]

2 QB's forgotten in the mix that have been injured this season and might be available are the Als Caleb Evans and RB's Tyrie Adams, both very athletic young QB's.  Question is if they have the brain power to read the field and produce.

Ottawa likes Tyrie Adams - they recently re-signed him for 2025.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Collaros.

[Blitzer]

I hope Collaros retires. He threw into triple coverage instead of keeping the ball and running. I give up on him. Football is a running game. Bombers don't need a pitcher. They need a quarterback. He's scared of getting another concussion. He wasn't that accurate on Sunday anyway. What a goddamn disappointment. 

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Ottawa likes Tyrie Adams - they recently re-signed him for 2025.

Brown
Masoli
Crum
Adams

Can't keep them all.  Crum is the next Prukop!

[TBURGESS]

Why does anyone think that Zach would renegotiate his contract or that anyone would take him at his current contract?

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Why does anyone think that Zach would renegotiate his contract or that anyone would take him at his current contract?

Guilt guilt guilt.

[dd]

First things first, it's Collaros, C-O-L-L-A-R-O-S, not Colleris ?? or Collaris, its Collaros, if we're going to talk about him, let's have the respect and decency to spell his name right after what 5 seasons with us!!

And since he's been here, we have made every Grey Cup game...pretty good track record, actually unmatched by anyone in any era.

So if he's playing next year, and he is, he's our starting Qb end of story, forget trading for unstable head cases who couldn't beat us in the regular season (25-0 loss if i recall correctly) and the playoffs (last year, he didn't make it to the WF this year!!). Not interested.

My plan for 2025 would be to sign a decent #2 Qb--I'd try and get Davis Alexander or Tre Ford here within our SMS.

After 2025, and assuming Collaros retires, I then go out and sign a FA Qb if Alexander or Ford aren't ready to be the #1, based on their play in 2025.  Maybe Dru Brown will be sick of losing in Ottawa and would like to come back to Winnipeg and get back to winning football games with the support crew he would have here that he will never get there. Ottawa is going nowhere and sorry Bob Dyce is not an HC capable of leading them to the Grey Cup either but that's another post for another day.

[dd]

Why does anyone think that Zach would renegotiate his contract or that anyone would take him at his current contract?

Why would he?? He didn't call the offensive game plan on Sunday, Buck Pierce did. Collaros said he couldn't grip the football because his finger was stinking split open and our response was thrown the ball!! Seriously, we're going to renegotiate his contract??!? Get serious.

How many passes did our recievers drop on Sunday?? Maybe we renegotiate their contract?? How many passes did Demski catch on Sunday--did he catch any, I can't recall, the only thing I remember is he was offside on a decent gain we got that called back. Maybe we renegotiate his contract??

Or how about we renegotiate the guy who called the offensive plays on Sunday, demote him to be our Qb coach and bring in a real OC!!!

[Pigskin]

Today in one interview Zach mentioned he received 5 stiches to repair his finger. He also talked briefly about  retirement. Probably just GC blues, but it's on his mind. I would say next year will be his last.   

[Blueforlife]

I hope Collaros retires. He threw into triple coverage instead of keeping the ball and running. I give up on him. Football is a running game. Bombers don't need a pitcher. They need a quarterback. He's scared of getting another concussion. He wasn't that accurate on Sunday anyway. What a goddamn disappointment. 

Agree with nothing said here.

[blue_gold_84]

Agree with nothing said here.

+1

An emotionally fueled clown post.

[Blue In BC]

Today in one interview Zach mentioned he received 5 stiches to repair his finger. He also talked briefly about  retirement. Probably just GC blues, but it's on his mind. I would say next year will be his last.   

If we had won, he might have given thought to retire now. The Grey Cup in Winnipeg has some motivation but there is not guarantee we make it to the game or win next year.

Family aside, he's due to earn a lot of money next year. That's not easy to give up. I think he plays in 2025 and then retires. If we aren't confidant we've found the successor, he might get a 1 year deal for a # 2 spot but I doubt that option is viable.

[bwiser]

Guilt guilt guilt.

One guilt for each of his recent Grey Cup losses

[dd]

The other 2 weren't his fault...he didn't miss the block that lead to the blocked field goal and he didn't blow the coverage on the Montreal TD pass.

He DID have us in this game until he split his finger open, 17-13 at the time I believe. Tells the coaches he can't grip the ball and then is asked to throw 4 long passes for 4 picks and a 24 point swing.

Seems to me it wasn't him calling the plays, seems to me he told everyone he couldn't grip the ball, why we continued on with that pass heavy game plan after the 1st, the 2nd , the 3rd and then the 4th interception is sn indictment of incompetence in the highest degree by the man with the headset on!!! Now that guy is supposedly being courted by BC, good, go there and screw up that team even more than it is now!!

[DM83]

Vag can't read defenses.
Literally cries for sympathy, when he chickens out after throwing an int. Has no mental toughness or integrity.

The ford in Edmonton can't read defenses either. Plus he is just happy to be there.

Both guys when they scramble look great. But in tealty if they can't scramble they panic.  Neither guy has won anything and are horrible. Stop this idiotic talk

[TecnoGenius]

My picks in order would be VAJ then Ford.

VAJ fails in the big game every time, and usually quite badly.  WSF's, WDF's, you name it, he'll botch it.  If he ever makes the cup, he'll botch that.  I'd bet the farm on it.

So if we switch to VAJ, we'll have at best the same result as Zach the last 3 years, and at worst we fail in a WSF or WDF.  Why make a big, expensive, change for that?

So it'll be Zach.  And if Zach quits or something, we do everything we can to get Alexander or Dru.  Either guy will set you up for potential long term success with manageable risk.

It wasn't all Zach's fault we lost the GC.  It was probably more Lucky's than Zach's, and I'd assign Lucky ~10% of the blame.  Plenty of blame to go around, plenty of crap play and low brain-power.

[TBURGESS]

VAJ fails in the big game every time, and usually quite badly.  WSF's, WDF's, you name it, he'll botch it.  If he ever makes the cup, he'll botch that.  I'd bet the farm on it.

So if we switch to VAJ, we'll have at best the same result as Zach the last 3 years, and at worst we fail in a WSF or WDF.  Why make a big, expensive, change for that?

So it'll be Zach.  And if Zach quits or something, we do everything we can to get Alexander or Dru.  Either guy will set you up for potential long term success with manageable risk.

It wasn't all Zach's fault we lost the GC.  It was probably more Lucky's than Zach's, and I'd assign Lucky ~10% of the blame.  Plenty of blame to go around, plenty of crap play and low brain-power.

I believe that Zach will be our QB next year & he will be worse than he was this year. I also believe that VAJ will be better than Zach next year, no matter which team he's on.  You, like many others confuse team stats like wins with QB stats. 

We're not getting Dru that ship has sailed. Rumors out of Mtl say that Alexander will be their QB next year and they'll release the Faj. 

I never said that it was all Zach's fault that we lost the cup. I said that he's not the Zach he was and that he's getting worse not better. 

[blue_gold_84]

VAJ fails in the big game every time, and usually quite badly.

***glances at Collaros' stats in the last few Grey Cups***

[LXTSN]

Zach will absolutely give the bombers their best chance to win another cup. Not just to win regular season games.

This sounds crazy but the first play of the Grey Cup set the tone for the game. A 5-yard IP penalty setting up 1st and 15 forced us to pass twice rather than letting the running game do damage. We really never forced the run like we should've from the beginning.

The run needs to be the foundation of the offence. It opens everything up for Zach when we are able to run on second and 6 or 7.

Give Terry 2 or 3 more years like Dru Brown and he could be the next up for us!

[Blueforlife]

***glances at Collaros' stats in the last few Grey Cups***

Glances at his record and rings

[dd]

I believe that Zach will be our QB next year & he will be worse than he was this year. I also believe that VAJ will be better than Zach next year, no matter which team he's on.  You, like many others confuse team stats like wins with QB stats.

We're not getting Dru that ship has sailed. Rumors out of Mtl say that Alexander will be their QB next year and they'll release the Faj.

I never said that it was all Zach's fault that we lost the cup. I said that he's not the Zach he was and that he's getting worse not better.

Adams is emotionally too unstable to lead a team when the going gets tough and the pressures on. He always buckles and it isn't pretty.

[TBURGESS]

Adams is emotionally too unstable to lead a team when the going gets tough and the pressures on. He always buckles and it isn't pretty.

Completely disagree.

[ModAdmin]

I would just say Adams Jr. is a pretty decent quarterback and just leave it at that.

[blue_gold_84]

Glances at his record and rings

Team stats.

My point being that wins, losses, and championships are by and large team accomplishments. And a handful of posters dumping on a talented QB like Adams are being irrational in their criticisms.

[blue_gold_84]

I would just say Adams Jr. is a pretty decent quarterback and just leave it at that.

Better than decent. He was having a MOP season prior to getting hurt.

[Pete]

Not sure why all the talk about Adams,not a chance bc trades him to us unless Buck wants to do us one last favor when he becomes their head coach...

[Jesse]

Not sure why all the talk about Adams,not a chance bc trades him to us unless Buck wants to do us one last favor when he becomes their head coach...

BC will trade him to whoever gives the best offer (which will obviously not be us).

[GOLDMEMBER]

Well he is traded so that is that on him. Bombers need to go after both Fords!

[TecnoGenius]

Well he is traded so that is that on him. Bombers need to go after both Fords!

Yay, so back to Zach... Hard no on QB Ford, unless he'll be a $110k backup, which is impossible.  So... back to Zach!

Anyone taking a leap on QB Ford will be taking 5X more risk than those starting or thinking of starting Dru & Alexander.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Yay, so back to Zach... Hard no on QB Ford, unless he'll be a $110k backup, which is impossible.  So... back to Zach!

Anyone taking a leap on QB Ford will be taking 5X more risk than those starting or thinking of starting Dru & Alexander.

Agree, can't see Hervey choosing Ford as his undisputed starter, the stakes are too high in Edmonton, with a new owner and a new GM they start the season off playing with dynamite and they'll want to get off to a good start. If Ford has patience to play second fiddle and bide his time, they may be able to retain him for future mutual benefit.

[Blueforlife]

Team stats.

My point being that wins, losses, and championships are by and large team accomplishments. And a handful of posters dumping on a talented QB like Adams are being irrational in their criticisms.

Greatest is generally defined by rings
Yes 100% team game and defense wins you cups as well
Adams is good, until he wins in the playoffs we won't be regarded as great imo
I don't mind him but he lacks consistency which all the great have
Yes some are too hard on VAJ but that's how this place works, some kicking while down at times.

[Tiger]

Greatest is generally defined by rings

[/sub]

Ask Dan Marino! 

[tlf]

Team stats.

My point being that wins, losses, and championships are by and large team accomplishments. And a handful of posters dumping on a talented QB like Adams are being irrational in their criticisms.

So why does Adams get individual credit and Zach's wins goes on the team credit? You can't do that.  Either it's all team or all on the QB.  Both Qbs are good QBs. We are lucky to have Zach who has improved our team IMMENSELY after the awful QBs we had. 

[blue_gold_84]

So why does Adams get individual credit and Zach's wins goes on the team credit? You can't do that.  Either it's all team or all on the QB.  Both Qbs are good QBs. We are lucky to have Zach who has improved our team IMMENSELY after the awful QBs we had. 

Show me where I did any such thing.