Rough Riders at Blue Bombers pre-game Discussion

[Jesse]

I'm an Ayers fan but not for the WDF if we have a legit choice.

I think the sticking point is, we don't believe there is a legit choice.

We've seen this team put injured players in to their detriment multiple times. I don't believe that a player who has been injured for weeks and is suddenly made available for our play-off game is healthy.

[Blue In BC]

I think the sticking point is, we don't believe there is a legit choice.

We've seen this team put injured players in to their detriment multiple times. I don't believe that a player who has been injured for weeks and is suddenly made available for our play-off game is healthy.

We're talking about a back up LB being replaced with our former starter in rotation. I agree he shouldn't be added if he's not healthy but this is a low risk / high reward change if he is good to go.

Last year we played a bunch of players that didn't practice for an extended time and were hobbling. We also didn't have any potential healthy replacements to put in from the PR or IR. I wouldn't think this is a similar situation.

Let's see what the depth chart looks like on Friday.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

We're talking about a back up LB being replaced with our former starter in rotation. I agree he shouldn't be added if he's not healthy but this is a low risk / high reward change if he is good to go.

Last year we played a bunch of players that didn't practice for an extended time and were hobbling. We also didn't have any potential healthy replacements to put in from the PR or IR. I wouldn't think this is a similar situation.

Let's see what the depth chart looks like on Friday.

But you have to take out one of our best special teams players to do it. We will see. Maybe they'll keep both on and take Fox out or something. He missed most of last week's game anyway and when you're rushing three you don't need as many bodies.

[Blue In BC]

But you have to take out one of our best special teams players to do it. We will see. Maybe they'll keep both on and take Fox out or something. He missed most of last week's game anyway and when you're rushing three you don't need as many bodies.

I'd value any " starter " quality player as a higher priority whether he starts or is used in rotation. Kyrie was not some average player. He was an excellent player when healthy.  I'd go as far as saying he was a dominant player.

Whether he's actually healthy I don't know. As you mentioned removing Ayers is not the only choice but the one I'd most likely expect due to him seeing the least activity on defence.

It's true that a bad game on ST's could cost us the game. OTOH, the probability is a bad game on defence would be more likely to cost us the game.

We do have some other very good ST players in Griffin, Cadwallader, Gauthier, Hallett and Jones etc.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I'd value any " starter " quality player as a higher priority whether he starts or is used in rotation. Kyrie was not some average player. He was an excellent player when healthy.  I'd go as far as saying he was a dominant player.

Whether he's actually healthy I don't know. As you mentioned removing Ayers is not the only choice but the one I'd most likely expect due to him seeing the least activity on defence.

It's true that a bad game on ST's could cost us the game. OTOH, the probability is a bad game on defence would be more likely to cost us the game.

We do have some other very good ST players in Griffin, Cadwallader, Gauthier, Hallett and Jones etc.

Right. But your assumption is that Wilson will play at the very high level required to be successful in the West Final after not taking a single snap since July. The crux of the matter is I don't think he can or at the very least, it's not likely. I'll take a fully up to speed and in shape Ayers over Wilson on Saturday. If Wilson had played a few games toward the end of the season (which was obviously the plan before he got hurt in warm-ups in Edmonton) different story. But he didn't. I see your argument and understand it, but I am ready to embrace the youth movement where it makes sense and I think it makes sense here.

[Blue In BC]

Right. But your assumption is that Wilson will play at the very high level required to be successful in the West Final after not taking a single snap since July. The crux of the matter is I don't think he can or at the very least, it's not likely. I'll take a fully up to speed and in shape Ayers over Wilson on Saturday. If Wilson had played a few games toward the end of the season (which was obviously the plan before he got hurt in warm-ups in Edmonton) different story. But he didn't. I see your argument and understand it, but I am ready to embrace the youth movement where it makes sense and I think it makes sense here.

I'm not sure how many reps Ayers has actually had on defence. I would have preferred to see Wilson back sooner but that didn't happen. Bringing back a player for the WDF that hasn't played is an issue.

It's all risk analysis on whether we need to rotate more often on defence or have an injury. I'd like to think our offence controls the TOP and field position. Obviously not having any injuries is a goal that can't be controlled.

I would remind you that Ayers was moved to 1 game IR for 2 weeks on Oct 10 and missed part of the previous game due to getting nicked. So he may not be as 100% as you suggest. OTOH, Wilson has been recovering for about 8 weeks since his injury.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I'd value any " starter " quality player as a higher priority whether he starts or is used in rotation. Kyrie was not some average player. He was an excellent player when healthy.  I'd go as far as saying he was a dominant player.

Whether he's actually healthy I don't know. As you mentioned removing Ayers is not the only choice but the one I'd most likely expect due to him seeing the least activity on defence.

It's true that a bad game on ST's could cost us the game. OTOH, the probability is a bad game on defence would be more likely to cost us the game.

We do have some other very good ST players in Griffin, Cadwallader, Gauthier, Hallett and Jones etc.

One minor quibble, Ayers spent more time playing WIL this season than Cole did and may be the future starter in that position. I'll trust whatever the coaching staff decides to do with this position, all 3 are good.

[Blue In BC]

One minor quibble, Ayers spent more time playing WIL this season than Cole did and may be the future starter in that position. I'll trust whatever the coaching staff decides to do with this position, all 3 are good.

As long as we're quibbling, Ayers was the WIL when Cole was injured and not on the AR. When Cole returned, he took over at WIL.

To some degree Ayers became a starter when we lost both Bighill and Cole to injury. Jones had been the WIL but moved over to MLB.

So he was the 3rd choice and became the WIL by default. We didn't have other choices missing 2 LB's at the same time. Unless we wanted Gauthier at MLB and Jones staying at WIL.

It's all about context. Ayers could be the WIL going into 2025 if Jones takes over at MLB.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

As long as we're quibbling, Ayers was the WIL when Cole was injured and not on the AR. When Cole returned, he took over at WIL.

To some degree Ayers became a starter when we lost both Bighill and Cole to injury. Jones had been the WIL but moved over to MLB.

So he was the 3rd choice and became the WIL by default. We didn't have other choices missing 2 LB's at the same time. Unless we wanted Gauthier at MLB and Jones staying at WIL.

It's all about context. Ayers could be the WIL going into 2025 if Jones takes over at MLB.

Straight up Jones has taken the MLB job, Biggie can no longer play to the level Jones is currently playing at. I seriously hope they make this clear to Bighill in the off-season and come to an agreement that saves him the indignity of being cut. 

[theaardvark]

No one on an MOS team loses his place due to injury.  When they get healthy, they return to the lineup.  If they don't perform, then they can get replaced.  Its just the MOS way.

That said, the decision as to whether a player is "healthy" becomes a debate.  Is Bighill last year at 80% "healthy"?  Should he have been on the field?

The other question is, "Is Wilson coming off an extended time off the field, even if 100%, "healthy"?"  Do you start a guy who left the field with an injury months ago over someone who has replaced him effectively and is in sync with the current lineup?

Regular season, you probably bring him back in, but platoon him, integrating slowly.  No time or roster space to platoon with a max of 2 games left.

I love what Wilson brings, but only JY can decide if he is an asset or liability in this moment.

[Blue In BC]

One minor quibble, Ayers spent more time playing WIL this season than Cole did and may be the future starter in that position. I'll trust whatever the coaching staff decides to do with this position, all 3 are good.

Just checked the depth charts and I see Ayers listed as the starter for 3 or 4 games. Jones listed as the starter for 7 or 8. Ayers may have played less as the starter than you recall? Hard to be sure without a rep counter.

EDIT: Corrected Cole for Jones starting after Wilson. Unintended mistake with discussions about 4 different LB's. However doesn't change the fact that Cole was the current WIL on the depth chart the last two games or that Ayers didn't finish the last game he started. Might even suggest the Ayers is still somewhat not 100% as to why Cole was the most recent WIL.

If we're going to talk about whether Wilson is healthy, then speak to that as well. He also had no DT's in his last two games.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Just checked the depth charts and I see Ayers listed as the starter for 3 or 4 games. Cole listed as the starter for 7 or 8. Ayers may have played less as the starter than you recall? Hard to be sure without a rep counter.

No way Cole started at WIL 7-8 games, before he was injured he was backing up Kramdi at SAM and wasn't getting that many reps. Kyrie played WIL for the first 5-6 games, Jones took over when he was injured, played there till Bighill was injured in the LDC then moved over to MLB. Ayers stepped into WIL and played 3 games till he missed a week with injury, so the last 2 games of the season are the only games Cole has started at WIL.

[Jesse]

Can't trust the depth chart anyways. They don't tell us what was done in the game.

[TecnoGenius]

How well does Wilson cover?

If 100%, Wilson is as fast as a fast QB or RB.  He'll track you down and nail you.  In terms of deeper pass coverage: pretty useless and a bad matchup, just like most/all WILLs.  At most you have him in a mid-range zone as an extra guy they aren't expecting.

[TecnoGenius]

No one on an MOS team loses his place due to injury.  When they get healthy, they return to the lineup.

Two words:  Matt Nichols.

As well as Maston, maybe Ian Wild, ... I'm sure I could come up with many more who were IR to end a season and never offered another contract.

We may do it less than other GMs, but we still do it.  Nasty business.