Lucky Whitehead

[TecnoGenius]

I'd suggest Ben Cahoon in Montreal might be a comparison as well. He was very tough to defend and always a guy looked at to make a 2nd down conversion over the middle.

I was thinking Cahoon too, but then Cahoon would make these diving Dressler-esque catches that Schoen would never attempt or complete.  But if you take away the circus stuff, Cahoon would be a perfect match.  Similar body type, similar lack of speed, similar high football IQ, etc.

[TecnoGenius]

The guy was hurt last year, and hurt all of this year---do you see the trend??? if he comes back, and if we sign him, I hope its based on games he dresses for, but he will most certainly be hurt again.

Very possibly.  At the very least we can't be handing him another $100k signing bonus because that gets no SMS recovery when he 6-games.  You can still pay him bigly, but it has to be 100% salary so we can protect the SMS.  He still gets all his money even if injured all year, but we don't have to care because we can re-spend all that SMS on someone else.

What we did this season with Schoen/Kenny bonuses was a big poop-show of epic proportions.

[Blueforlife]

The guy was hurt last year, and hurt all of this year---do you see the trend??? if he comes back, and if we sign him, I hope its based on games he dresses for, but he will most certainly be hurt again.

 We'd be best served getting younger, cheaper help just like we've done this year, turn the page.

Disagree, he is an excellent player and a valuable asset to this organization
I generally would believe in finding a younger cheaper option but special talents are worth it imo

[theaardvark]

Very possibly.  At the very least we can't be handing him another $100k signing bonus because that gets no SMS recovery when he 6-games.  You can still pay him bigly, but it has to be 100% salary so we can protect the SMS.  He still gets all his money even if injured all year, but we don't have to care because we can re-spend all that SMS on someone else.

What we did this season with Schoen/Kenny bonuses was a big poop-show of epic proportions.

Not sure what his bonus structure was last year, but there would have been no reason not to give him one then, he's been very healthy, missing only 2 games in 2 years.

Fitting him into the $SMS might have needed the tax break of signing bonuses, if he lives in one of "those" states.

Walters / MOS are going to have an even tougher time this off season.  We do have ELC guys that have stepped up, and while letting Sheed walk last year left a hole to be filled, any of the the top WR's could walk and we already have the replacement on the roster.  Any five of Demski, Lawler, Wolitarsky, Schoen, Wilson, Clercius, Lucky would be a solid corps.  Without having to rely on finding a next man up, although there are already guys like Wheatfall and Case identified for backup spots.

[Blue In BC]

Not sure what his bonus structure was last year, but there would have been no reason not to give him one then, he's been very healthy, missing only 2 games in 2 years.

Fitting him into the $SMS might have needed the tax break of signing bonuses, if he lives in one of "those" states.

Walters / MOS are going to have an even tougher time this off season.  We do have ELC guys that have stepped up, and while letting Sheed walk last year left a hole to be filled, any of the the top WR's could walk and we already have the replacement on the roster.  Any five of Demski, Lawler, Wolitarsky, Schoen, Wilson, Clercius, Lucky would be a solid corps.  Without having to rely on finding a next man up, although there are already guys like Wheatfall and Case identified for backup spots.

I have no problem with giving any import early money to achieve the advantage of a tax benefit for American players.

OTOH, I feel that how it is calculated against the SMS in the event of an injury needs to be changed.

Example ( not sure of how Rourke's salary breaks down ). He's due to get $750K more or less. If he's injured in TC and lost for the season, all of it is exempt on the 6 game IR.

OTOH, if he gets $350K of his salary in early money, in the same example, only $350K is sheltered on the 6 game IR.

Now we all know this formula applies to every team so in that sense it's the same risk for every team.

However, what the heck is the point of what amounts to a penalty to the team in trying to create that tax advantage? It potentially hamstrings a team.

Need the new commish to change how this works.

[theaardvark]

I have no problem with giving any import early money to achieve the advantage of a tax benefit for American players.

OTOH, I feel that how it is calculated against the SMS in the event of an injury needs to be changed.

Example ( not sure of how Rourke's salary breaks down ). He's due to get $750K more or less. If he's injured in TC and lost for the season, all of it is exempt on the 6 game IR.

OTOH, if he gets $350K of his salary in early money, in the same example, only $350K is sheltered on the 6 game IR.

Now we all know this formula applies to every team so in that sense it's the same risk for every team.

However, what the heck is the point of what amounts to a penalty to the team in trying to create that tax advantage? It potentially hamstrings a team.

Need the new commish to change how this works.

There is a tax advantage in some cases for bonus over salary.  In the case of players that can take advantage of that tax advantage, you can pay them less overall $SMS by taking advantage of this loophole.

The downside is, if they get injured, that $SMS is blown.

So, you have to decide if signing the player at a "savings" is worth the risk...

[Blue In BC]

There is a tax advantage in some cases for bonus over salary.  In the case of players that can take advantage of that tax advantage, you can pay them less overall $SMS by taking advantage of this loophole.

The downside is, if they get injured, that $SMS is blown.

So, you have to decide if signing the player at a "savings" is worth the risk...

I said that. I understand that.

The point is there is no point in creating a potential SMS issue for a team if there is any injury. It doesn't matter if every team takes that risk.

The point is why is it necessary for them to take that risk?

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I said that. I understand that.

The point is there is no point in creating a potential SMS issue for a team if there is any injury. It doesn't matter if every team takes that risk.

The point is why is it necessary for them to take that risk?

Because the Bombers aren't the only CFL team players can play for and keeping and retaining talent is a 365 day a year competition.

[theaardvark]

I said that. I understand that.

The point is there is no point in creating a potential SMS issue for a team if there is any injury. It doesn't matter if every team takes that risk.

The point is why is it necessary for them to take that risk?

That's exactly the point.  If you want to scam the system using tax loopholes, you should have to have a downside to that advantage.  One team may be willing to make the offer and take the risk, while another team won't.  If they all get the same "protection", then everyone can make the same deals.  Its a dynamic that makes a GM earn his pay.

[Blue In BC]

Because the Bombers aren't the only CFL team players can play for and keeping and retaining talent is a 365 day a year competition.

The Bombers aren't the only team that can offer the same or more money, whether they use the tax loophole for imports either.

Signing any player for a large salary has risks. Performance versus salary always comes up as we see players under perform or over perform.


Canadian players get advance money although likely a smaller % of their total salary since there is no tax advantage. It falls more into guaranteed money I suppose.

Most players aren't $200K plus in salary with large amounts of early money. I seriously doubt that has any influence over where a player chooses to sign.

As an example Houston signed in Calgary for $200K IIRC. I don't know how much he got in advance but I doubt he got $100K of it in advance.  The real question was there a number of teams that were going to be willing to pay him $200K?

The American tax advantage is just an interesting loophole. It could increase or decrease with whichever party forms the new government.

[Blue In BC]

That's exactly the point.  If you want to scam the system using tax loopholes, you should have to have a downside to that advantage.  One team may be willing to make the offer and take the risk, while another team won't.  If they all get the same "protection", then everyone can make the same deals.  Its a dynamic that makes a GM earn his pay.

I wouldn't call it a scam. As you pointed out everyone can make the same deals. It's a known fact that some players choose to accept less money to stay with their team or even their choice when they leave. Players consider chances of play off money and just general success in playing on a good team as part of the formula.

Teams are allowed to negotiate with players before the actual free agency starts. That allows the existing team to review / consider whether to amend their offer.  Players change teams and teams decide what they are willing to pay and can afford to pay. Note that rule is fairly recent and previously would have been considered tampering. At the very least it would have been considered confidential.

Determining any players salary is part of the entirety of building the roster. We've seen some players leave for " wild " money offered elsewhere. It's not all a result of bonus / early money.

Obviously there is disagreement in my argument but I've made my view clear. I fully believe it should be changed because it potentially does more harm than it does benefit.

The SMS is intended to create an equal playing field. Suggesting taking an additional risk is equivalent of the opposite even though it's currently within the rules IMO.

[theaardvark]

Using the tax loophole to give a player a net salary increase over another offer of more money with less upfront is literally scamming the system.

You do it for an advantage, and take the risk of getting Schoen the issue with it.

[dd]

I was thinking Cahoon too, but then Cahoon would make these diving Dressler-esque catches that Schoen would never attempt or complete.  But if you take away the circus stuff, Cahoon would be a perfect match.  Similar body type, similar lack of speed, similar high football IQ, etc.

Schoen reminds me of Rocky Dipietro from the old Ticats days, big inside receiver who catches the ball consistently in traffic and takes hits. I don't recall Rocky being as injured as Schoen has been though..

[Pigskin]

Schoen reminds me of Rocky Dipietro from the old Ticats days, big inside receiver who catches the ball consistently in traffic and takes hits. I don't recall Rocky being as injured as Schoen has been though..

Rocky played in 36 games in his first three years, and 10 TDs.  DS83 37 games, 26 TDs.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Rocky played in 36 games in his first three years, and 10 TDs.  DS83 37 games, 26 TDs.

I remember Rocky and he wasn't at all similar to Schoen in any way that I can recall, the comparison is baffling.