Argos

[BlueFire]

Here comes another sellout. Wade should be in a good mood if that's possible

[Blue In BC]

Argos suck. I have a button that says that. lol

Anyway. Another sellout is a good thing. It will almost certainly cost the Argos a penalty or two.

[Blueforlife]

If we get a home playoff game, the profits will be sick this year.

[theaardvark]

If we get a home playoff game, the profits will be sick this year.

Which will mean that we can blow the $SMS up next year for the GC run.  Lose our first and second round picks and spend a cool milly in matching funds (good for the league, "revenue sharing" as it were) so that we can out compete for a few key pieces.

[Blue In BC]

Which will mean that we can blow the $SMS up next year for the GC run.  Lose our first and second round picks and spend a cool milly in matching funds (good for the league, "revenue sharing" as it were) so that we can out compete for a few key pieces.

No it doesn't mean that at all. Nobody has done that in the past.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Which will mean that we can blow the $SMS up next year for the GC run.  Lose our first and second round picks and spend a cool milly in matching funds (good for the league, "revenue sharing" as it were) so that we can out compete for a few key pieces.

Is BC's marketing budget helping tremendously? They haven't won a home game since when? We can win being at or close to the salary cap.

[theaardvark]

No it doesn't mean that at all. Nobody has done that in the past.

We will see what happens in BC this year.  I'm not sure thay haven't blown the cap for at least a draft pick.

[Blue In BC]

We will see what happens in BC this year.  I'm not sure thay haven't blown the cap for at least a draft pick.

We'll see. Lions had a bit of an unusual situation with Rourke coming back and then Betts. How often does a team have a player coming back that is going to be in the $600K-$700K SMS hit mid season?

It had nothing to do with trying to buy their way into a Grey Cup. It's still possible that they re-negotiated other contracts to not be substantially over the SMS.

Every team wants to get to and win the Grey Cup every year whether it's in their stadium or not.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

We'll see. Lions had a bit of an unusual situation with Rourke coming back and then Betts. How often does a team have a player coming back that is going to be in the $600K-$700K SMS hit mid season?

It had nothing to do with trying to buy their way into a Grey Cup. It's still possible that they re-negotiated other contracts to not be substantially over the SMS.

Every team wants to get to and win the Grey Cup every year whether it's in their stadium or not.

Mid-season??? I don't think so, asking a bunch of players to take pay cuts halfway through the season is likely to spark a locker-room revolt.  I think BC is a clear case of an ambitious owner telling the football ops people how to run their show without worrying about the consequences.

[theaardvark]

We'll see. Lions had a bit of an unusual situation with Rourke coming back and then Betts. How often does a team have a player coming back that is going to be in the $600K-$700K SMS hit mid season?

It had nothing to do with trying to buy their way into a Grey Cup. It's still possible that they re-negotiated other contracts to not be substantially over the SMS.

Every team wants to get to and win the Grey Cup every year whether it's in their stadium or not.

Every team want to get to the Grey Cup.  Duh.

In a hosting year, the difference between losing money and making a killing is actually getting your team in the stadium.  So it becomes worthwhile to "buy" players.

[Stats Junkie]

Is BC's marketing budget helping tremendously? They haven't won a home game since when? We can win being at or close to the salary cap.

The last time the BC Lions won a game at SaveOnFoods Field, Stefan Flintoft did NOT hit the scoreboard with a punt.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

The last time the BC Lions won a game at SaveOnFoods Field, Stefan Flintoft did NOT hit the scoreboard with a punt.

  

[theaardvark]

The last time the BC Lions won a game at SaveOnFoods Field, Stefan Flintoft did NOT hit the scoreboard with a punt.

Which is odd... again... what he said.

[Blue In BC]

Every team want to get to the Grey Cup.  Duh.

In a hosting year, the difference between losing money and making a killing is actually getting your team in the stadium.  So it becomes worthwhile to "buy" players.

There are exactly a bunch of top players that just become available at this time of the season. You might have a point in February during free agency.

Go ahead and point out a team that went excessively over the cap during a season they hosted the Grey Cup?

It's never happened. It's just another of your tin foil hat ideas.

[theaardvark]

There are exactly a bunch of top players that just become available at this time of the season. You might have a point in February during free agency.

Go ahead and point out a team that went excessively over the cap during a season they hosted the Grey Cup?

It's never happened. It's just another of your tin foil hat ideas.

Yeah, they only signed Ciante Evans, William Stanback and Pete Robinson away from other teams.  Plus all their own players, don't think they lost a starter in FA.

Plus Covington coming from the NFL to start the season.

And then end up with VA and Rourke, and Betts back.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Yeah, they only signed Ciante Evans, William Stanback and Pete Robinson away from other teams.  Plus all their own players, don't think they lost a starter in FA.

Plus Covington coming from the NFL to start the season.

And then end up with VA and Rourke, and Betts back.

They released Marcus Sayles as a final cut after not playing him much in pre-season, which, at the time, was rumored to be a combination of play and salary.

[TecnoGenius]

No it doesn't mean that at all. Nobody has done that in the past.

2013 Riders destroyed their team's future for around 5 years by loading up for their cup.  Sure, maybe they didn't go more than $100k over (which is "allowed" and "normal") but they did screw up their NAT depth and DPs.

Teams do treat home-cup years differently than otherwise.

[TecnoGenius]

Is BC's marketing budget helping tremendously? They haven't won a home game since when? We can win being at or close to the salary cap.

Not our fault that BC SUCKS.  Can you imagine our team right now had we gotten Betts the other week instead of BC??  And if Rourke became our #2 when Strev was hurt?  Yowzers.

That BC is still failing after their league-superstars (if not right away, then soon to be) acquisitions, that's on their coaches, not on those players.

[TecnoGenius]

Every team wants to get to and win the Grey Cup every year whether it's in their stadium or not.

But in the home year they REALLY want to get to the cup.  And the pressure from "upstairs" (the prez/owner) must be immense.  Don't pretend it's just another ho-hum normal year.

[TecnoGenius]

I think BC is a clear case of an ambitious owner telling the football ops people how to run their show without worrying about the consequences.

Clearly.  If the dude is springing $1M (wild guess) to have LL Cool J open a game, do you think he gives a poop about $3M overage penalties?  I don't think that guy gives a poop about much of anything other than winning and being a local headline hero, and maybe reaping $$ if he can convince 10k more to get STs.

[TecnoGenius]

The last time the BC Lions won a game at SaveOnFoods Field, Stefan Flintoft did NOT hit the scoreboard with a punt.

Best stat ever.  This definitely needs to go on the TSN broadcast for the next @BC game.

[theaardvark]

They released Marcus Sayles as a final cut after not playing him much in pre-season, which, at the time, was rumored to be a combination of play and salary.

If you have a guy that is better and cheaper than a guy you brought in by buying him away from WPG three years before, that is evidence of what?  Fiscal responsibility in creating a cup team?  And they brought in Evans, also a halfback...  I guess I miss your point.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

If you have a guy that is better and cheaper than a guy you brought in by buying him away from WPG three years before, that is evidence of what?  Fiscal responsibility in creating a cup team?  And they brought in Evans, also a halfback...  I guess I miss your point.

Obviously.

[Blue In BC]

Clearly.  If the dude is springing $1M (wild guess) to have LL Cool J open a game, do you think he gives a poop about $3M overage penalties?  I don't think that guy gives a poop about much of anything other than winning and being a local headline hero, and maybe reaping $$ if he can convince 10k more to get STs.

Yes I think he cares about over spending against the SMS. There is an integrity issue involved for every owner. Spending on entertainers is a totally different issue.

[TecnoGenius]

Yes I think he cares about over spending against the SMS. There is an integrity issue involved for every owner. Spending on entertainers is a totally different issue.

One would certainly hope so!  The reality? ... we shall see

[Jesse]

One would certainly hope so!  The reality? ... we shall see

Tech, the reality is the last 100 years of football.

Just like our discussion of not changing rules for non-common events, the Lions going over the salary cap because they happen to have to elite players coming back from the NFL at the same time doesn't mean teams have decided to ignore the cap and consequences.

[ichabod_crane]

No it doesn't mean that at all. Nobody has done that in the past.

Riders in 2013. Maybe did not blow the cap, but loaded up many old vets and then went downhill soon after. A Brandon taman special! Only time his gambles paid off as never worked in Winnipeg

[Blue In BC]

Riders in 2013. Maybe did not blow the cap, but loaded up many old vets and then went downhill soon after. A Brandon taman special! Only time his gambles paid off as never worked in Winnipeg

Are they the ones that went over by a little over $100K? Stuff happening as a result of players going onto IR, especially late in the season can impact that. Finishing in 1st place and activating a bunch of PR players for the last game ditto.

It's not the same as intentionally going over by that much. It's certainly isn't the same as suggesting to just go over by a million and accept the fine and draft choice losses.

[Jesse]

Are they the ones that went over by a little over $100K? Stuff happening as a result of players going onto IR, especially late in the season can impact that. Finishing in 1st place and activating a bunch of PR players for the last game ditto.

It's not the same as intentionally going over by that much. It's certainly isn't the same as suggesting to just go over by a million and accept the fine and draft choice losses.

"Going for it" is a case of teams allowing less room for those IR adds as they normally do. SO once some injuries do pile up, they end up going over.

Just like us last season. We could have been under the cap had we not rested our starters in the final game(s). But you make the choice to exceed the cap a little for what you see as a competitive advantage.

[TecnoGenius]

It's not the same as intentionally going over by that much. It's certainly isn't the same as suggesting to just go over by a million and accept the fine and draft choice losses.

DT on every CJOB broadcast now says at least once that in 2025 we should load up on everyone and to heck with the cap.  His excuse is BC has shown the way when it's your home GC year.

So it's not just me.  If BC proves $150k+ over the cap (or gasp $300k!) in 2024 then I think that's the green light to go mental.  Just make sure to stay under the magic $300k number so you keep your 1RDP.

[Blue In BC]

DT on every CJOB broadcast now says at least once that in 2025 we should load up on everyone and to heck with the cap.  His excuse is BC has shown the way when it's your home GC year.

So it's not just me.  If BC proves $150k+ over the cap (or gasp $300k!) in 2024 then I think that's the green light to go mental.  Just make sure to stay under the magic $300k number so you keep your 1RDP.

No, it's just you.

[bluengold204]

Back on topic.  I'm pretty impressed this is a sell out.  Jets have their home opener Oct 11 at 7:00 so people can't be at both.  Wonder if this will hurt their attendance.

[TecnoGenius]

No, it's just you.

Uh, want me to find you the exact spot in CJOB Audio Vault where DT said it this week??  You can't do your own homework?

And at least 1-2 other posters have echoed my sentiment on this thread and others.

So ya, not just me.

[dd]

Regardless of what the left coast is doing rest assure Walters won't follow suit, he has integrity. I don't think bc gets by Saskatchewan so their irresponsible saws manamfmenr proves nothing, just they're stupid that's all. 

[ModAdmin]

Just pointing out that the Lions went big on the LL Cool J concert at BC place on June 15th with a view to developing a larger fan base.  Many fans thought this was a great idea to bring in new fans.

They drew 53,788 fans for that game.  The next home game on June 27 drew only 19,016 fans and the average per game in September and so far in October has been 21,458 fans.

The LL Cool J experiment did not seem to work.  Bringing back Rourke and Betts does not seem be working fan attendance-wise either.

Building a team through better management, coaching and players resulting in a consistently winning team is the only way to draw fans to games.  Proof positive - the Blue Bombers.

[Stats Junkie]

There is a noticeable difference in attendance at BC Place between week night & weekend games. The June 27 game was a Thursday night game and the last 2 home games have been Friday nights.

The 4pm starts on Saturday & Sunday have been quite successful for the Lions with plenty of children in attendance. For the final home game in 2 weeks, the Lions are once again promoting the 'Island Express' and 'Interior Express'.

[ModAdmin]

The Lions, being successful, is definitely good for the league.  Given the size of the city they should be drawing more than 20K+ fans they regularly draw.  They have the CFL, the NHL as the two primary professional teams in Vancouver.  Winnipeg has the same.  I guess what I am suggesting is that, so far, Winnipeg has been able to build a better CFL team by finding players, coaches and management that have found a way to construct a winner.  So far, BC has not.  I don't think that concerts and other extraneous events will supplant a winning team.

[DM83]

The CFL should start expanding into cities with stadiums that have 20-27 thousand stadiums.

This would include northern American cities. This would include Canadian cities that would include HALIFAX, Quebec perhaps Saskatoon, and London, and Victoria

In the States perhaps, Rapid city, Albany, Rochester, Minot

A salary cap would need to be maintained as all other cities

[TecnoGenius]

The CFL should start expanding into cities with stadiums that have 20-27 thousand stadiums.

This would include northern American cities.

A pipe dream, most likely.  However, if they were to go insane and allow USA in again, this time make it so USA teams must have the same Canadian count as all teams.  The way they did it last time was completely devoid of brains.

[TecnoGenius]

There is a noticeable difference in attendance at BC Place between week night & weekend games. The June 27 game was a Thursday night game and the last 2 home games have been Friday nights.

Could be... shows you need to get to know your market.  WPG seems to be the opposite.  Maybe BC has a ton of young families that want to go but can't if it drags on until 10:30pm.

Management and the league should know this stuff and tweak the 2025 schedule accordingly.  Just like WPG gets stuck with the extra Thu games, BC should maybe get more weekend afternoon games.

[TecnoGenius]

They drew 53,788 fans for that game.  The next home game on June 27 drew only 19,016 fans and the average per game in September and so far in October has been 21,458 fans.

Watching the LL game you could see that every quarter that ended had another 10k or so walk out.  Many watched the concert and just left.

Still, I like the idea and if he wants to throw $$ at it, go for it.  The whole league likes those.

And I do believe BC attendance is up this year on average?  The stadium certainly looks busier than in prior years on TV.  But I could be wrong...

Remember, you don't need 54k to stay... you just need an extra 1-2k per year that buys in (STH), repeat every year until you have WPG attendance numbers! 

[TecnoGenius]

Regardless of what the left coast is doing rest assure Walters won't follow suit, he has integrity.

I fear you are right.  Even when it's revealed BC went $250k over in '24, KW won't take it as license to go hog wild.

However, he could budget right to the cap in FA and ignore any injury & late-signing buffer he'd normally plan for... wink wink.  I would be disappointed if he didn't go at least $100k over by the end, which seems pretty "normal" in the world of CFL.

I don't think bc gets by Saskatchewan so their irresponsible saws manamfmenr proves nothing, just they're stupid that's all.

Haha, true dat.  Might destroy the team's future and not even get a cup to show for it.  At least '13 SSK got the cup for their destruction...

[Jesse]

A pipe dream, most likely.  However, if they were to go insane and allow USA in again, this time make it so USA teams must have the same Canadian count as all teams.  The way they did it last time was completely devoid of brains.

It's illegal under American law. If the CFL expands into the states again, there will be no ratio for that team as well as different field size and probably a different pay scale.

For those, and many other reasons, it should never happen.

[ichabod_crane]

The CFL should start expanding into cities with stadiums that have 20-27 thousand stadiums.

This would include northern American cities. This would include Canadian cities that would include HALIFAX, Quebec perhaps Saskatoon, and London, and Victoria

In the States perhaps, Rapid city, Albany, Rochester, Minot

A salary cap would need to be maintained as all other cities

This has been proposed since the 1970's DM83. The problem ALWAYS is a suitable stadium and people to PONY UP THE CASH! All nice touchy feely to wish this, but bottom line is who is going to pony up that cash for the new team? Governments reluctant to fund stadiums and the American experiment in the 1990's flopped outside of Baltimore and that was just a one trick pony until the Ravens came back to town. CFL is no more than a niche sport down south and mainly for college guys or NFL cuts to keep their hand in the game and maybe get another shot at the big time. Mix in the CFL player ratios and that will not work down south either.

This one off in Victoria was great this season, but I don't think it proves ANYTHING! A one game special event vs 10+ home games are different animals.  Victoria MAYBE could support a team as it's grown since I lived there in the 1990's and draw from all over Vancouver Island. How many prairie retirees would go to game I have no idea. Maybe the CRYDER fans!

[Blue In BC]

Uh, want me to find you the exact spot in CJOB Audio Vault where DT said it this week??  You can't do your own homework?

And at least 1-2 other posters have echoed my sentiment on this thread and others.

So ya, not just me.

Ok. You and a few radical followers. That idea would destroy competition in the CFL.

[ichabod_crane]

Could be... shows you need to get to know your market.  WPG seems to be the opposite.  Maybe BC has a ton of young families that want to go but can't if it drags on until 10:30pm.

Management and the league should know this stuff and tweak the 2025 schedule accordingly.  Just like WPG gets stuck with the extra Thu games, BC should maybe get more weekend afternoon games.

10:30 PM? That's a joke in Spain where I am now! SUPPER regularly does not occur until 9 pm and so does going out in the bigger cities. REAL MADRID is party central of nearly 100,000! Canada could learn a thing or two from the Spanish. Often Canadian civic/municipal governments want to KILL street and spontaneous celebrations as the old bitter bitties they are! Behind the times as usual

[theaardvark]

The CFL should start expanding into cities with stadiums that have 20-27 thousand stadiums.

This would include northern American cities. This would include Canadian cities that would include HALIFAX, Quebec perhaps Saskatoon, and London, and Victoria

In the States perhaps, Rapid city, Albany, Rochester, Minot

A salary cap would need to be maintained as all other cities

Nope

10th team MAYBE in the Atlantic.

If they decide 12, then MAYBE London and Qwebec City.  Never Saskatoon or Victoria.

Can't give a team to Oakville, Brampton, Markham, or Whitby, because then Toronto would want one.

[Bluehawk]

For now the league needs to concentrate on getting the Halifax team going.
Equals 5 teams per division.
Run with that for a few years...then maybe add Victoria and one more east of Manitoba.
Don't ever and I mean ever head south of the border again. Been there done that...disaster

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

For now the league needs to concentrate on getting the Halifax team going.
Equals 5 teams per division.
Run with that for a few years...then maybe add Victoria and one more east of Manitoba.
Don't ever and I mean ever head south of the border again. Been there done that...disaster

There's no life signs to be found in the Atlantic Schooners Football Club, they are a dead fish.

[Jesse]

There's no life signs to be found in the Atlantic Schooners Football Club, they are a dead fish.

Agreed. There's no interest there at all.

We're not in a financial climate to build stadiums anymore. No one will spend private money; tax payers won't support public funds.

If there's any hope for a 10th team, it needs to be somewhere that has some kind of stadium already.

[theaardvark]

There's no life signs to be found in the Atlantic Schooners Football Club, they are a dead fish.

They've been swimming upstream so long.. I have no doubt that they have tired of not having any positive results.  Add in COVID killing thier kitchen parties at the GC's for a couple years, and you know why its quiet.

All it would take is a interested owner and a bit of work on expanding the stadium, and it takes off again.  I have no doubt they'd have a tremendous launch with the right owner.

[ModAdmin]

Could be... shows you need to get to know your market.  WPG seems to be the opposite.  Maybe BC has a ton of young families that want to go but can't if it drags on until 10:30pm.

Management and the league should know this stuff and tweak the 2025 schedule accordingly.  Just like WPG gets stuck with the extra Thu games, BC should maybe get more weekend afternoon games.

It is highly doubtful the "young families" or game times have a bearing on on the 21K attendance for the Lions.

Estimated 2024 populations for Vancouver (GVRD) and Winnipeg are:

Vancouver 2,680,000
Winnipeg 849,000

The Lions should be drawing more fans and they haven't figured out yet how to do it in this current climate. 
The Lions should be drawing far more than 21K

[theaardvark]

It is highly doubtful the "young families" or game times have a bearing on on the 21K attendance for the Lions.

Estimated 2024 populations for Vancouver (GVRD) and Winnipeg are:

Vancouver 2,680,000
Winnipeg 849,000

The Lions should be drawing more fans and they haven't figured out yet how to do it in this current climate. 
The Lions should be drawing far more than 21K

Metro Toronto well over double Vancouver, and they can't draw flies.

Its not the population base, its the fan base.  Not getting the "new Canadians" into football is the issue.  If only the global initiative found players other than Europe, Australia and Japan... can you imagine if we had a "Million Dollar Arm" type competition for the CFL?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Dollar_Arm

Not being a jerk, I am truly curious about this, does the ball being made of a pigskin make a difference? 

[ModAdmin]

Metro Toronto well over double Vancouver, and they can't draw flies.

Its not the population base, its the fan base.  Not getting the "new Canadians" into football is the issue.  If only the global initiative found players other than Europe, Australia and Japan... can you imagine if we had a "Million Dollar Arm" type competition for the CFL?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Dollar_Arm

Not being a jerk, I am truly curious about this, does the ball being made of a pigskin make a difference? 

I can't comment on the ball but my initial point was increasing the fan base is primarily done by building a team that wins.  What I said was, Winnipeg fans come out to games because management, coaches, and players play winning football.  Concerts, tailgates, and other entertainment help but clearly if the team is not winning, the crowds will not be sustainable. And if the GVRD has 3 times the population of Winnipeg that too is just an added advantage. 

[bwiser]

There's no life signs to be found in the Atlantic Schooners Football Club, they are a dead fish.

Thats too bad because I had a great time at the Schooners party at the Grey Cup when it was here in Winnipeg.

[bwiser]

Metro Toronto well over double Vancouver, and they can't draw flies.

Its not the population base, its the fan base.  Not getting the "new Canadians" into football is the issue.  If only the global initiative found players other than Europe, Australia and Japan... can you imagine if we had a "Million Dollar Arm" type competition for the CFL?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Dollar_Arm

Not being a jerk, I am truly curious about this, does the ball being made of a pigskin make a difference? 

We have seen the Jets reach out to different ethnic groups and Manitoba Junior Hockey has been involved with the new Canadians market for a number of years. I believe it is starting to pay off for the Jets. The CFL needs to do more of this although the Bombers seem to be ahead of other CFL markets in this area.

[RebusRankin]

Atlantic Canada is never going to work. No stadium, no owner with the necessary deep pockets, not enough businesses to provide corporate support.

[bluengold204]

We have seen the Jets reach out to different ethnic groups and Manitoba Junior Hockey has been involved with the new Canadians market for a number of years. I believe it is starting to pay off for the Jets. The CFL needs to do more of this although the Bombers seem to be ahead of other CFL markets in this area.

Uhhhhh the jets attendance is at an all time low.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Atlantic Canada is never going to work. No stadium, no owner with the necessary deep pockets, not enough businesses to provide corporate support.

The family that sells potatoes at more than a dollar per lb. must be having a hard time making ends meet. There are a few seriously wealthy families in the Maritimes that are content that the region has remained a rural backwater for well over 100 years.

[markf]

The family that sells potatoes at more than a dollar per lb. must be having a hard time making ends meet. There are a few seriously wealthy families in the Maritimes that are content that the region has remained a rural backwater for well over 100 years.

disagree about backwater, but there are definitely people /families/ corporations, in the maritimes who are billionaires, and who could easily pay for and support a CFL team.
but they clearly have no interest at all.

I wonder about Quebec city but there seems no interest there either.

[TecnoGenius]

Ok. You and a few radical followers. That idea would destroy competition in the CFL.

DT is radical?  Well, maybe? 

And I fully agree it might destroy the CFL.  You clearly don't understand my position.  That's why I've been the most vocal against BC being permitted to do this.  It's dumb, and will put pressure on other teams to follow suit, in home GC years or not.  It could escalate into FA wars between the teams with good balance sheets or deep pocket owners.

Yes yes yes, we don't know for sure, no one runs the numbers until January, yada yada ball hit the jumbotron splat kablooie.  But I'm a betting man, and my bet is BC has set the precedent, and I bet all the other GMs know it.

My fear is BC abuses it this year and possibly gains something (like a cup) from it, and then when it's found out in Jan the league closes the loophole... so BC gets to "cheat" but no one else will be allowed to follow suit.  How is that fair?

[Blue In BC]

DT is radical?  Well, maybe? 

And I fully agree it might destroy the CFL.  You clearly don't understand my position.  That's why I've been the most vocal against BC being permitted to do this.  It's dumb, and will put pressure on other teams to follow suit, in home GC years or not.  It could escalate into FA wars between the teams with good balance sheets or deep pocket owners.

Yes yes yes, we don't know for sure, no one runs the numbers until January, yada yada ball hit the jumbotron splat kablooie.  But I'm a betting man, and my bet is BC has set the precedent, and I bet all the other GMs know it.

My fear is BC abuses it this year and possibly gains something (like a cup) from it, and then when it's found out in Jan the league closes the loophole... so BC gets to "cheat" but no one else will be allowed to follow suit.  How is that fair?

Just to point out that the Lions are currently in 3rd and sinking fast. At best even if they beat the Riders they may not escape the WSF. Then they have to travel to Winnipeg for the WDF.

There are no guarantees for any team at the moment, but teams have over spent before and failed.

Lots of speculation about them and the idea they are well over the SMS. I guess we'll find out in the spring and see whether it paid off.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Just to point out that the Lions are currently in 3rd and sinking fast. At best even if they beat the Riders they may not escape the WSF. Then they have to travel to Winnipeg for the WDF.

There are no guarantees for any team at the moment, but teams have over spent before and failed.

Lots of speculation about them and the idea they are well over the SMS. I guess we'll find out in the spring and see whether it paid off.

The Lions could spend another $2 million over the cap and there's no guarantee that would buy them a cup as it's not the proper way to build a great football team.  A dumb owner might do that once, but in the end it's a waste of their money and makes them look foolish to most people including their fellow owners.

[theaardvark]

Buying a cup is an advantage, not an absolute.

You still need coaching, cohesion and most of all, luck.  Lucky bounces, luck to avoid injury, luck for players performing over their expected.  Or at least the luck to avoid the opposites of those, and the luck to avoid opponents that are experiencing those.

The Yankees load up every year, and win their share.  But its not a guarantee.

BC has done the CFL version of buying a team, as much as Montreal did last year, with late season signings of top players.  In MTL's case, they were not returning players, unlike BC's case this year.  But signing Betts and Rourke certainly changed the team, although Sankey and Lemon did more for Montreal, at least from what we've seen in BC so far.

[TecnoGenius]

Just to point out that the Lions are currently in 3rd and sinking fast. At best even if they beat the Riders they may not escape the WSF. Then they have to travel to Winnipeg for the WDF.

Just because you cheat and fail, it doesn't absolve you of being guilty of cheating.  All if forgiven if BC loses the WSF?

If you rob a bank, but walk out the door with a bag of fake cash (i.e. nothing), you're still fully guilty of robbery.

Aards is right: football is a huge numbers game.  You buy the best FAs you can afford because talented players will produce to their average over time, and that average is higher than the less-talented players.  Any given Sunday can hit you, but if your average talent is higher than the other team, you have a better chance of winning after 60:00.

Maybe BC's mistake was blowing the wad on guys who had been wasting away on benches in the NFL for a year+.  Might have been better spent on game-ready fully-up-to-speed guys.

[TecnoGenius]

BC has done the CFL version of buying a team, as much as Montreal did last year, with late season signings of top players.  In MTL's case, they were not returning players, unlike BC's case this year.

The difference is MTL was not badly over cap already.  MTL's cup winning roster was filled with ELCs who are now superstars.  And they had a "budget" QB.

What MTL did was smart GMing.  I see no hint of smart GMing going on in BC.

[Pete]

Just because you cheat and fail, it doesn't absolve you of being guilty of cheating.  All if forgiven if BC loses the WSF?

If you rob a bank, but walk out the door with a bag of fake cash (i.e. nothing), you're still fully guilty of robbery.

Aards is right: football is a huge numbers game.  You buy the best FAs you can afford because talented players will produce to their average over time, and that average is higher than the less-talented players.  Any given Sunday can hit you, but if your average talent is higher than the other team, you have a better chance of winning after 60:00.

Maybe BC's mistake was blowing the wad on guys who had been wasting away on benches in the NFL for a year+.  Might have been better spent on game-ready fully-up-to-speed guys.

Personally I think the signing of Rourke and to a lesser extent Betts messed up the chemistry.
Likely there is a pro Rourke and pro Adams camp in the locker room. Also for the guys that have bought it all year long and then have their spot just handed to someone from the nfl doesn't help either.
We saw the something similar when we played the elks, and they opened with Ford -, half their guys must have been thinking why are we changing qbs when we've just gotten on a roll. By the time they put MBT back in in they lost a lot of that momemtum. Having 2 #1 qbs doesnt work, Campbell needed to make it clear from the start when rourke got back that he would be the guy rather than trying to massage adams ego

[TecnoGenius]

Personally I think the signing of Rourke and to a lesser extent Betts messed up the chemistry.

You got it.  I bet BC would have won 2-3 more of these past few Rourke games had they started a healthy VAJ.  McInnis would be a slam dunk for ROY instead of falling off the radar.

VAJ almost certainly would have won MOP had he gotten back to speed after losing to us.

BUT... Rourke is the future.  Rourke might win a cup in 2-5 years.  I don't think VAJ ever wins a cup, even though he'll win you a ton of reg season games.  So BC had to pull the trigger on Rourke or he was going to FA.

Now, they could have hired Rourke but kept starting VAJ (once healthy) for this season... I wonder what stopped that?  Was Rourke told he would start every game as a condition of signing?

It's actually funny that all of this nonsense likely cost BC their home GC.  BC braintrust wishing Rourke had stuck in the NFL until the off-season right about now!

[TBURGESS]

I don't think QB is the problem in BC. It's the OL + losing Hollins and Cottoy. 

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Personally I think the signing of Rourke and to a lesser extent Betts messed up the chemistry.
Likely there is a pro Rourke and pro Adams camp in the locker room. Also for the guys that have bought it all year long and then have their spot just handed to someone from the nfl doesn't help either.
We saw the something similar when we played the elks, and they opened with Ford -, half their guys must have been thinking why are we changing qbs when we've just gotten on a roll. By the time they put MBT back in in they lost a lot of that momemtum. Having 2 #1 qbs doesnt work, Campbell needed to make it clear from the start when rourke got back that he would be the guy rather than trying to massage adams ego

I still think the pressure to make these moves has come from the new owner in an effort to get more bums in seats immediately.  The Lions coaching staff and management is experienced and competent enough to know inserting Rourke was going to upset the team dynamic, but what choice did they have if Doman butted his nose into their business and told them what to do?

[Jesse]

I still think the pressure to make these moves has come from the new owner in an effort to get more bums in seats immediately.  The Lions coaching staff and management is experienced and competent enough to know inserting Rourke was going to upset the team dynamic, but what choice did they have if Doman butted his nose into their business and told them what to do?

Very much doubt it.

[blue_gold_84]

Very much doubt it.

Agreed. Doman doesn't come across as the meddlesome type.

[Blueforlife]

I don't like teams going over the cap but money can't buy the love and team culture we have created.  That takes years to cultivate.  Like a good marriage and functional families, it's the relationships that drives success.  Can't plug and play stars and think it can buy a cup.  Short term yes can give a boost but the long term success of a club is based on consistency, team work and leadership.  I seen this early days with MOS and Hall.  Patience paid off. 

BC hurt their team culture with the moves they did.  They are a sinking ship but they might plug the hole.  An average team, that could turn the corner but I wouldn't bet on it (this year).

[TecnoGenius]

Agreed. Doman doesn't come across as the meddlesome type.

Uh, if they're massively over cap that itself is proof Doman is meddling.  No GM would dare blow $900k in fines+salary to get $300k worth of talent without their boss telling them to do so.

[blue_gold_84]

Uh, if they're massively over cap that itself is proof Doman is meddling.  No GM would dare blow $900k in fines+salary to get $300k worth of talent without their boss telling them to do so.

Advising and/or giving the green light to a GM to exceed the cap in a year where they're hosting the GC doesn't come across as meddlesome, IMO.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

We will have to wait and see. There's not really any way of knowing right now. What I suspect would be likely, if certain teams begin to exceed the salary cap by large margins is that other teams would press for further and stricter penalties on overages. I think it's very unlikely though.

Owners and CEOs are business people first. Business people don't like rapid raising expenses and if one or two teams keep going over then all that will happen is other teams will try and match. That hurts everyone except for the players and if there's one thing owners all have in common is that they would like to keep player salaries as low as possible.

[Jesse]

We will have to wait and see. There's not really any way of knowing right now. What I suspect would be likely, if certain teams begin to exceed the salary cap by large margins is that other teams would press for further and stricter penalties on overages. I think it's very unlikely though.

Owners and CEOs are business people first. Business people don't like rapid raising expenses and if one or two teams keep going over then all that will happen is other teams will try and match. That hurts everyone except for the players and if there's one thing owners all have in common is that they would like to keep player salaries as low as possible.

If they want to spend more money, they could just raise the cap. They don't want to spend more. They negotiate keeping the cap lower when the players want more.

This is such a non-issue.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

If they want to spend more money, they could just raise the cap. They don't want to spend more. They negotiate keeping the cap lower when the players want more.

This is such a non-issue.

I think so to. I do think the league does itself no favors by keeping the data locked away. The league would be more compelling and interesting for very engaged fans if it made the cap and spendings public. Whatever though, it's a separate point. I don't think the additional spending has helped BC so far. I'm not willing to conclude at this stage they are massively over and I also think common sense would suggest that CEOs/Owners won't get into arms races that only hurt themselves in the long run.

[blue_gold_84]

I do think the league does itself no favors by keeping the data locked away. The league would be more compelling and interesting for very engaged fans if it made the cap and spendings public.

The CFL's credibility would rise considerably if it opted to make contracts and spending available to the public, IMO.

[Jesse]

The CFL's credibility would rise considerably if it opted to make contracts and spending available to the public, IMO.

I'm not the tin foil hat type. But their unwillingness to open the books during the lost covid year has a bad smell to it.

Lack of transparency has always been big mark on the CFL.

[theaardvark]

The CFL is a league that is suffering weak gate, has a decent TV package, but is not in the black league wide. 

Cap can't go up a lot, front office cap hamstrings change, but they keep the league afloat.

Raising the cap does not do anything to make the league more competitive or better.  We won't attract any different players, the existing pipeine will just get a small amount more.  A player here or there might stick for a few more dollars, but in general, if they have the passion to play, the CFL will reward them decently.

Blowing up you cap, on the other hand, is a distinct advantage. When a Sankey, Lemon, Betts, Rourke shows up, you can outbid for them even if you do not have cap space. A very unfair advantage for teams that are on sound econoic footing, or have an owner with deep pockets vs. teams that are struggling.  But this happens in all leagues.

[TecnoGenius]

Advising and/or giving the green light to a GM to exceed the cap in a year where they're hosting the GC doesn't come across as meddlesome, IMO.

Yes it does.  To me a non-meddlesome Prez/CEO would not tell the GM anything about how much to spend or what players to sign.  The GM would do the normal thing of spending to the cap, as basically all GMs do by default (within $100k).

It was also meddlesome when WM told KW he had to pay Brady what he wanted to retain him.

Doesn't mean meddling is always bad.  You could argue keeping Brady was the better move than the Jeffcoat/Grant/Bailey we would have retained had KW stuck to his spreadsheet.

Meddling is just that -- meddling.